Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: WillS on January 04, 2013, 10:39:21 am
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This lovely piece of English yew was looking so promising - gorgeous colour and some fantastic, crazy character. Full of knots and dips and swoopy stuff.
As it was being tillered and shaped and adjusted, I found some scary looking cracks and shakes which were filled with superglue, along with a very dodgy area that was crying out "hinge!" all in the same limb, so I figured if it was going to blow, that's the limb that would fail.
Got it tillered out to 80#@25" and just as I was seeing where on the tips it needed to work some more.... CRACK! 2 inches above the handle. On the safe limb! Not a single warning, no hinges, no creaks, no soggyness or anything. Just bang.
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb363/Will_Sherman/WP_000484_zps54b9150b.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb363/Will_Sherman/WP_000490_zpsf7c56549.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb363/Will_Sherman/WP_000488_zps24569822.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb363/Will_Sherman/WP_000485_zpsc5007ce4.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb363/Will_Sherman/WP_000494_zpsaaca8f88.jpg)
(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb363/Will_Sherman/WP_000492_zps9f87d7b9.jpg)
Oh well. Next!!
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That's a shame, that would have been a real nice looker :'(
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Dude, you're gutsy for tackling that one to begin with. Agreed, it would have been a beauty, sorry to see her go.
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Oh no sorry to see that.Looks like it broke in an area that was ultra knotty and stiff between two knots.Probably not able to be as elastic as the rest of the limb.Super looking character bow though.
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Actually, not surprised that broke. Pretty knarly wood! It looks dry, too.
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Shame :'(... It does look like it was a challenging stave.
Sometimes it's easy to leave too much extra meat round the knots and end up with a weak area between, but it's a nightmare anyway, if you make it more even then it may go bang at the knot.
Don't think you did ow't wrong, just the way it goes. Still could have gone even if you'd aimed for a lower weight.
Did pretty well to get it back to 25", just put it down to experience.
I've had a couple go on me this year so I know how you feel.
It does look a bit necked in the third pic down. Is that where it went bang?
Del
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Del, actually no, that's the area I thought it was gonna go! I would have preferred to follow the back far better in that area, but it split awkwardly and there was hardly any heartwood in that area. I was watching that spot the entire time but it looked pretty solid, surprisingly. It was about 5 inches from the tip in that area, so that may be why it wasn't as vulnerable.
I was thinking it looked dry as well, as soon as it broke. Weird though, as it was actually still wet in parts as I was roughing it out. It was kept outside the entire time, so couldn't have dried out too fast, and even 2 weeks ago I cut a similar sized piece from an offcut in half and the centre was still slightly wet.
I think just having that much variation in grain direction, and all the knots etc all focused in one place was probably the culprit more than anything else. It looked so good on the tiller though :(
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man thats anoying i hate it when that kinda thing happens, once i was making a bow and had it tillered to 20" and sw it wasent straight on the tillering stick so what did i do i straightened it out pulled it down to 20" and it snaped. but your right that bow had some crazy character. i wish you lots of luck on your next bow.
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Cheers! Well the next bow is coming from the same piece of yew, and will be a billeted longbow. Never done a billet before, so should be interesting...
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Bummer, sorry for your loss. Were you trying for a war bow? Why pulling to 80 lbs.? Dell had some good points about the pressure transfer when areas around a knot are left stiffer. One thing I noticed was the sharp edges of the back of the bow. I would bet that it first let go on the sharp edge on the right directly across from the knot.
It may help to give a slight radius to the edges before loading that much pressure on the next one. ;) Sometimes it is just the wood and I have certainly seen flawless wood blow for no obvious reason and have seen some of the nasty gnarly stuff hold together. ::)
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Cheers Keenan. If anybody knows about succeeding with knotty character yew it's you!
I wasn't specifically trying for a "warbow" especially not with this amount of character, but my most comfortable longbow at the moment is around 75# so I was hoping to get something slightly heavier. I totally agree about the sharp edge. Looking at it now I have no idea why I left a few spots unradiused - total fail on my part if that's what did it! There's also an area that I left unradiused just below that goose-neck area in the third picture. It's like I wanted the thing to blow up!
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Why not cut it off past the break and then cut the other piece in the same area and splice it back together and resurrect it as a lighter weight bow?
Grady
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I'd have excavated the two knots just above the break to see how deep and rotten they were before I flexed more than a tad.
I would be interesting to see if the break travels back into either.
Let's have a full postmorten... scalpel nurse!
Del
(Damn, now I'm thinking of nurses...)
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Thats a great idea Del. We certainly tend to learn more from the ones that went Boom. At least I know that is how it works for me ::)
Nurse! Nurse!
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(Damn, now I'm thinking of nurses...)
;D
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I would be interesting to see if the break travels back into either.
Let's have a full postmorten... scalpel nurse!
Del
(Damn, now I'm thinking of nurses...)
Funnily enough, neither of the knots are contained/involved in the break! The large one actually travels through the limb in completely the opposite direction, so away from the break area, and the cluster of pin knots does the same kind of thing, but seems to just vanish into solid wood. The break has some swirly grain within it, but no signs of any knots or rotten wood or holes etc. It's a real mystery to me!
Hard to explain without taking more pictures, but here is where the break occured within the layout of the bow:
Nock-----------------||---Handle----------------------Nock
The || symbol is the location of the kaboom. My plan with this is to chop the longer limb down to the handle, and turn it into a V splice. I'll grab another piece of yew that's too short to make a full bow, rough out a limb based on dimensions from this one, and splice them together. Kinda like your transatlantic longbow Del. If I'm lucky, I'll be able to use a piece I've got which is a completely different tone and colour, so I'll have a longbow with two totally different coloured limbs, packed with character. It'll look stunning!
Or repulsive.
Watch this space, I guess?
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It looks to me like there might be some rot between the sapwood and heartwood. Probably wouldnt be a problem except the sapwood became very thin at that break point and I think the funky wood might have failed in tension.
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:o.......I didn't want to say anything before, but I tend to agree with Carson. Looks like rot.
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One lesson pushed hard by the old writers was to not waste time on questionable staves. Now, I guess, we feel we have time to burn and conquering a worthless stave is more valuable than making a better bow and spending the time saved in shooting.
For that matter, all archers were encouraged to make their own bows, arrows and accessories. But to make them and then use them, not make a bow, then make another bow, then make another bow forever.
Seems among users of primitive bows and arrows, there are some who would rather make than use. Me, I'd rather spend most of my archery time launching arrows.
jm $.02
Jim Davis
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:o.......I didn't want to say anything before, but I tend to agree with Carson. Looks like rot.
I'd wondered about that black line but I hadn't worked out that the two pieces were rotated relative to eachother before >:( so I didn't realise it was on the heart sap boundary... !
Del
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The rot thing is really interesting. I assumed it was a sort of non-sap, non-heart transition thing that kept the properties of both perhaps. I've got another yew longbow with areas of identical dark lines between belly and back and they've performed amazingly well for a very long time! Perhaps they're just time bombs?
In regards to Jim's comment about spending more time using worthless staves than shooting, I feel it is worth pointing out that in the UK we can't hunt with our bows. They are purely for recreational use, and fun. While it is still fun going out with likeminded folk and shooting at targets (and I do love doing this) it is equally "fun" in my mind to make bows. Possibly more so, as each stave is a new challenge and this challenge is addictive.
I'd much rather "waste" time to risk in a failure if the result could have been a stunning character bow that's totally unique and learn from that failure, than stand in a hall and plug away at the same target and learn how to hit that same target more accurately :)
We all enjoy this amazing art for different personal reasons, and so to me there are no worthless staves or pointless failures. Hope that makes sense and doesn't come across as snappy!
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To me the fun is makin' more than shooting.
Del
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To me the fun is makin' more than shooting.
Del
Same. I got into archery from a completely backwards direction. By the time I'd made my first fully finished, working longbow, I'd not shot a single arrow in my life. I used dimensions I found online and had no idea what I was supposed to be feeling for or how it should shoot etc. I'm one of them creative types - I make everything I possibly can. A bow was a new challenge, and I just had no idea how addictive and surprisingly sociable the hobby is. Shooting is a result of having the desire to push myself creatively, I don't make bows because I love to shoot. If that makes sense.
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:o.......I didn't want to say anything before, but I tend to agree with Carson. Looks like rot.
I'd wondered about that black line but I hadn't worked out that the two pieces were rotated relative to eachother before >:( so I didn't realise it was on the heart sap boundary... !
Del
"heart sap boundary... !"
I see your point, funny how sometimes judging from photos gets confusing. I was at the lumber yard today and clerk was having a tough time identifying grain, and I was on the mark.
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I assumed it was a sort of non-sap, non-heart transition thing that kept the properties of both perhaps. I've got another yew longbow with areas of identical dark lines between belly and back and they've performed amazingly well for a very long time! Perhaps they're just time bombs?
I wouldn't worry about those other bows with dark lines at heartwood/sapwood boundary. I think it only became a problem at that point where the sapwood thinned to nearly nothing at the back.
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I assumed it was a sort of non-sap, non-heart transition thing that kept the properties of both perhaps. I've got another yew longbow with areas of identical dark lines between belly and back and they've performed amazingly well for a very long time! Perhaps they're just time bombs?
I wouldn't worry about those other bows with dark lines at heartwood/sapwood boundary. I think it only became a problem at that point where the sapwood thinned to nearly nothing at the back.
Ah ok, good stuff! Its a real shame there's no way of knowing what the wood is doing inside a bow. Might invent a self-bow ultrasound...
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I have a yew stave I'm making into a warbow, and it's got a knot like that highest one in the first pic sitting in a valley...I get the feeling that this might be kind of dangerous... :-\
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Don't make a warbow then! Surely its better to get a working bow out of a piece of yew, than try and force a piece of yew into doing something it doesn't want to do. There's a reason they imported perfect staves from around Europe for turning into heavy bows...