Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: simson on December 27, 2012, 08:56:36 am

Title: horse bow 45/27 (No. 14)
Post by: simson on December 27, 2012, 08:56:36 am
after a long time having trouble with the internet provider I'm back again. the net is still very slow, but I hope in a few days the problems are solved.
I used the time without any internet of course for bowbuilding, so about eight or ten new babies are nearly finished. I will show them when speed problems are solved.

o.k.  topic title is horse bow ...

My friend Christian is now proud owner of a quarter horse. He asked me building a horse bow for him, specs should be:

> no recurve ( I don't know why)
> drawweight about 45-50#/27" drawlength

Being no horse rider and no expert in horses I see some upcoming questions.
my thoughts are:
1.) Bow has to be short, but long enough for 27" draw, I think about 54" with bending handle to get a smooth draw without stack
2.) It should be robust to handle tough using on the horse, I think osage or elm could be possible woods
3.) Christian didn't want a recurve for some reason, but I think flipped tips could be a good compromise
4.) Bow should not have spiky tips to prevent peaking the horse (and get a sudden good speed .... )
5.) With  a relative short bow of 54", I will go for a symmetrical with wide limbs (have no good reason why, but think so)

please guys let me know your ideas or say if the listed 5 points are wrong

tomorrow I will choose a stave  and will begin with  the job. I will keep you updated and show the done work every day

Simon
Title: Re: horse bow
Post by: George Tsoukalas on December 27, 2012, 09:43:31 am
Simon, sounds good. The plains bow was even shorter being somewhere in the 40's and some even shorter than that. It is a good idea to semi recurve or reflex  the tips so the draw will be smoother. Jawge
Title: Re: horse bow
Post by: Oglala Bowyer on December 27, 2012, 10:02:14 am
They (plains) did not have 27 inch draw bows if they were short (between 39 and 48 inches).  This includes gull or 5 curve.  Their draws were short.  Which makes sense if your chasing down a buffalo at a full gallup and you draw a bow at 22 or 23 inches with a bow that is 50 or 60 lbs there wouldn't need to be any reason to draw it further.  But i'm not sure if your friend uses the hungarian method of horse archery, which is something to watch as well  :)
Title: Re: horse bow
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 27, 2012, 10:05:19 am
I suppose the question would then be. Do you want a replica horsebow? Or do you simply want a bow to shoot while riding a horse? I vote for option two. Then no matter what way you chose, you will be "right" and your authenticity cant be qiestioned.
Title: Re: horse bow
Post by: Pat B on December 27, 2012, 11:24:54 am
Have you considesed a Native American horse bow? They are generally not recurved but are sinew backed and usually highly reflexed.
Title: Re: horse bow
Post by: wildkatt on December 27, 2012, 11:35:38 am
 8) Most of the bows I make are ( Horse Bows ) they average from 48'' to 51'' with draws from 24'' to 26''. I also do mounted archery and hunt from horseback. Flipping the tips will prevent stacking. Horse archery is different than most people think. Most of my Horse bows are from 45# to 60# depending on what the archer can shoot. Most horse bows are short draw bows with the execption of Asian horse bows which are usualy a 28'' to 30'' draw. Ifin you have questions feel free to contact me. Always willing to help someone get started. WARNING its adicitve.  >:D


Katt
Title: Re: horse bow
Post by: JW_Halverson on December 27, 2012, 02:00:34 pm
One thing to think of is the horse's safety.  Whatever style bow you make, try to make the limb tips as smooth, round, and blunt as possible.  If horse and rider take a tumble, you don't want ol' Buck getting speared. 
Title: Re: horse bow
Post by: warpath on December 27, 2012, 02:43:47 pm
I agree completely with Wildkat. My background is mounted archery for over 20 years. I would have your friend try out a lightweight fiberglass bow first to see what they can shoot comfortably at full gallop. They may find that a 27" is more difficult than they think. If they are able to handle that draw length, then it's a question of what draw weight can they handle while staying on a horse at full gallop. Even now when I hop on a horse, even though I can use a 30" draw while mounted, I still prefer a 24" draw. This is my opinion and nothing more. Just some guidelines that I find useful when fitting a rider with the proper bow for them.

  G
Title: Re: horse bow
Post by: simson on December 28, 2012, 09:57:56 am
Thank you very much for your replies, esp. from the experienced mounted archers!

this will be no replica bow, just a  from horseback shootable bow.
He requested a fulldraw (27"), he's not used to shoot short draw bows
This will be an unbacked bow, no sinew
I really will do rounded tips (which will be the first time for me - I like the spiky slim ones)

I picked up an osage stave and chased a ring already. Unfotunately it has a huge propeller twist, nearly 90°.
I think of chosing another one or give it a try. Stave is now 56" long, clean - no knots, nice rings

Do you guys thing 54ntn + 1 (for the tips) is possible? Or is that too much on horseback?


(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010204.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010205.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010206.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010207.jpg)

Next step will be: layout limbs (devide in sections) and handle (marking upper limb, handle should be narrowed for more comfort)(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010216.jpg)

Next session tomorrow
Simon


Title: Re: horse bow
Post by: simson on December 30, 2012, 05:51:28 pm
some work with the drawknife

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010231.jpg)

handle

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010217.jpg)

problems: dogleg, not matching limbs, twist, sabre in one limb, ...

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010218.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010233.jpg)

and a first not vivsible dead wood from a knot (hope I can avoid it)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010223.jpg)

now the steaming part, here is my absolute primitive apparatus

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010236.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010237.jpg)

meanwhile a quick made bending jig

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010230.jpg)

to be continued

Simon
Title: Re: horse bow
Post by: simson on January 02, 2013, 03:30:26 pm
here is the jig in the vice, I tried to untwist the stave and made some corrections

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010241.jpg)

a simple slot was made from an old lisence board, wedges holding the stave in line,
the green line on the bow marked the roughing out

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010240.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010239.jpg)

she came out quite good, one limb still shows some twist and tends to the right

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010255.jpg)

here is the setup to correct the problems from above
two clamps holding the stave in line, one clamp is on the tip end and is like a lever to give some momentum (rubber band) for untwisting

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010258.jpg)

heating with the heat gun between the clamps

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010260.jpg)
Title: Re: horse bow
Post by: simson on January 02, 2013, 03:55:16 pm
here she is after all the corrections, sill 56" long

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010263.jpg)

next cut off to get a 51"ntn bow

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010265.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010266.jpg)

after some tillering and sanding ....

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010311.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010310.jpg)

27"fd

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010285.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010315.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010314.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010313.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/horsebow%20for%20Christian/P1010312.jpg)

I will dosome coatings of hard-oil on her, should be ready on Sunday and go to Christian


Simon
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: toomanyknots on January 02, 2013, 03:59:28 pm
Beautiful! Masterful handling of this stave. I just looked at this thread and was thinking "can't wait to see this finished", and then you posted about 2 seconds after that,  ;D.
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: Carson (CMB) on January 02, 2013, 04:01:51 pm
Wow! You make it look so easy.  Beautiful full draw bend!
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: Will H on January 02, 2013, 04:28:06 pm
Nicely done Simson! You sure know what you're doing :) love your work!
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: danny f on January 02, 2013, 04:48:30 pm
you did a great job on that bow well done.
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: lostarrow on January 02, 2013, 04:49:12 pm
Well done! Be sure to get some pics of your friend riding and shooting! We'd all love to see that!
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: BowEd on January 02, 2013, 05:41:55 pm
Great job with that twist simson and your tillering is second to none too at 27".
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 02, 2013, 06:12:05 pm
Nice work!
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: Badly Bent on January 02, 2013, 08:28:01 pm
Hokie Smolkes ;D thats one nice bend you got on that one Simson, great looking bow to boot. I agree with Carson, you make it look easy.
Greg
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: simson on January 03, 2013, 12:45:29 pm
Thanks fellas for your kind words.

Forgot to say: she is now 51" ntn;   43,5# / 27";  with leather built up handle + hemp cordage

Parallel with this bow I have built another little one for Christian's son Laurin (5), I will donate this one too on Sunday when I meet them on the shooting range.
I post it in an extra thread.

Simon
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: Pappy on January 03, 2013, 12:52:10 pm
Turned out nice. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: Bowman on January 03, 2013, 12:58:50 pm
Fantastic bow. Nice buildalong. Like it a lot.  :D
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: MWirwicki on January 04, 2013, 09:56:23 am
That twisted up stave sure straightened out nicely.  Nice job on the bow.  Looks great!
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: BowEd on January 04, 2013, 10:45:27 am
From the pics it looks like your top limb is a bit longer....How much?Quite a bend on that piece of wood with nothing but air for a back.It's hedge so I quess it'll hold up.....LOL.
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: simson on January 06, 2013, 03:24:30 pm
From the pics it looks like your top limb is a bit longer....How much?Quite a bend on that piece of wood with nothing but air for a back.It's hedge so I guess it'll hold up.....LOL.

handle is 1" above and 3" under the geometric middle
I changed my mind (symmetrical bow), because of shooting from horseback (lower limb is shorter, so easier to maneuverable)

Simon
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: Cameroo on January 06, 2013, 04:23:07 pm
I love seeing your work too.  I think that would have taken me at least 10 heat sessions to get that stave to where you got it after two :)

Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: horse bow (update: finished)
Post by: Arrowind on January 06, 2013, 07:59:49 pm
Awesome!  Well done!