Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: twilightandmist on December 27, 2012, 01:51:35 am
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so, i finally replenished my stock of cherry boards, and have decided to publish the build along that was requested. in this build along, i will be detailing the making of a 64 inch cherry recurve. it has a built up riser consisting of the base layer, then a layer of mahogany, then another layer of cherry. my target weight is 55 to 60 pounds at 28 inches. i will post more pictures as i go along. heres a little something to get you started:
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s620/cmac7254/IMG_0121_zps9086f4e8.jpg)
one of the boards, still in its original 6 foot length.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s620/cmac7254/IMG_0122_zps52044faa.jpg)
the same board next to the bow with the riser already glued up.
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s620/cmac7254/IMG_0124_zps4ae5caa5.jpg)
(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s620/cmac7254/IMG_0123_zps49a6db7d.jpg)
some details of the riser.
enjoy! as always, comments are welcome and encouraged.
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I'm wondering if the taper from the bottom of the handle might be too abrupt for safety....
Also, I really wonder why lots of bow makers want a recurve style grip on a long bow. Tis a curiosity to me.
Also it looks (though it's not clear) like there is a lot of runoff of the grain in the cherry strip. If so, do you plan to back the bow?
Jim Davis
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the board shown does have a lot of runoff, you're right. when i make a bow from that one, it will be backed for sure. the piece im using for the bow is a near perfect bias ring board. it is also too thick to even bend yet, so i dont have to worry about a steep riser problem. this bow is to be a recurve, not a longbow, so i figured a recurve style grip would be customary. plus, i have hever done a pistol grip before, and i was anxious to try one.
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OK. I get it. On with the show!
Jim
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well, it looks like im going to have to start over with a new piece, and back it this time. i got a little gung ho while tillering it and blew up a limb. not sure why, as it didnt follow the rings or fractire in at all the way i expected. perhaps it is overdried, because the limb exploded into 4 pieces! big boom like a gunshot, scared me half to death. never had one go like that before. any ideas?
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that's been my experiance with cherry, going good, going good, BOOM >:D, Bub
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That was a poor choice for a cherry board..even if you were to back it IMHO. Welcome to the real world of bowmaking. What made you think you could bend that unbacked? ??? I know why..its that over inflated ego thingy..lol...it can blind us all :laugh:
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I made a hickory-backed cherry bow. The board had very straight rings. I made it long (67") and wide (1 3/4") and it is still shooting to this day, 5 years later (thousands of shots). After hearing all the stories of them breaking, I kind of hate to ruin my perfect record and try another one.
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like i said, that isnt the board i was using. the board i was using had a near perfect bias ring orientation, no runout on the back or the sides. i have broken a few bows in my short time, and i think its more a matter of chance than ego. that also being said, i have more fun working on a bow like this and having it fail than working with osage and being guaranteed results ;)
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Cherry can make a very good bow, if you can keep it from failing completely or chrysalling. If making a cherry bow from a board, I'd always back it. Maple and rawhide are my favourites. Maple is very unforgiving of amateurs or mistakes, and must be tillered perfectly.
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There's nothing like a cherry bomb to get the heart going >:D .... Dry wood explosions suck >:(
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i just borrowed my buddy's moisture meter, turns out the boards were all at about 4 to 5%. we live and we learn, i guess. does anyone know how to reliably bring the moisture content of the board up?
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Stick it in the bathroom The hot showers will take to steam and to the air and drawing it imto the board ;)
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well, you have said it yourself, you live and you learn! from now on always check moisture content! or if you cant you can stick it in the broom for a while then take it out and when it stops loosing weight you should be alright.
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Yep just leave it in the bathroom for a couple days should bring it up nicely :)
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I had a White oak Mollegabet do the same thing on me, it was a beautiful piece of quartersawn White Oak too. I was getting it floor tillered and the limb failed catastrophically. Made for a heart pounding moment. When I looked at the break to diagnose the problem the porous rings were crumbly in the break. The next few I make from that board will be roughed out then stored in the bathroom for a while to rehydrate.
Grady
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Looks like you experienced typical cherry results this go round. I question how much a point or two increase in moisture will help. Cherry is hard to get a bow from.
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That still would've blown up even if it was at optimum MC....but you need to keep your wood stored in around 40-50% RH and you won't have any too dry issues....get a cheap meter that measures temp n RH n find that place to store your wood...where did you get the wood from? How long have you had it? I'm having a hard time believing it was only 4% when you live in Michigan.
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ive had it for about a week. i just talked to the guy i got it from, and apparently he didnt think it was important to mention that it was kiln dried. what makes you think this wouldnt have made a fine bow? have you not seen the other cherry board bow i made? that one even had some runoff on one of the limbs, and it shoots well to this day.
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Kiln dried or air dried doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is moisture content.
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but just like food, if you cook it too long, it gets too dry. he runs a lumber mill, moisture content isnt exactly a concern for him. so the question isnt about kiln dried or not, its about how much time it spends in the kiln drying out. if your end goal is "Dry Wood", then your results are going to be significantly different than if your end goal is wood dried to 9 percent moisture content or another specific point.
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Yeah but you can't rehydrate food. You can with wood.
And I used to run the kiln at hardwood mill. We dry the wood to between 12-5% mc. And we'd use 3 different meters to check each stack. And it was a concern for us (not saying it is for him) but we didn't want our product to warp and crack to where we couldn't sell it.
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im thinking he dried it too long, or wasnt entirely as concerned as he probably should have been. i probably should have checked the mc before i started making a bow from it.
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I've never tried cherry because it always seemed too brittle and have cut too many down after storms with fair wind. But , I have been wrong before. A guy built one out of tree of heaven and posted it here to my disbelief. I stopped being a naysayer.
I like the handle on try #1. Good luck with the next one.
Tracy
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well, ill try again soon!
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Back it!!
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That stinks man. I tried cherry twice a few years ago, broke one and the other chrysalled badly. Havent had a hankerin to try another one. Too much good wood out there to waste time on inferior stuff. As far as the mc goes, kiln dried or air dried the mc will settle to its surrounding rh in a week or two.
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I would be wary of the readings of moisture meters,Connor. I have a few,and they all read different. 4-5% is a pretty suspect reading,even for winter in Michigan. It hasn't been that cold yet. Even if it were dried in the kiln to say 6-8% ,as soon as it left it would likely start to gain and reach equalibrium at around 10% -12% considering the wet weather we had until a week ago. If you brought it inside and stored for a couple of days ,it would drop again. If you find your skin is itchy, your lips are chapped and your sinuses are bothering you (nose bleeds) your house is below 45-50% RH. Get a cheap meter from home depot and check it out. Humans do best in a RH of 45% -60% (rough guideline) and so does wood. If you get a week of -20 C the moisture in the house can drop to 10% Rh or less even with furnace humidifiers going full tilt. Venmar systems make it even worse. What kind of meter did you use? The pinless ones give false readings on wood that is narrower than the meter.
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it was a pinless :( i didnt know that about them. all the same, i guess its a case of trial and error. ive never had bad results with cherry before, but maybe i need to stick to my staves and shy away from the boards ;) go back to the roots
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An old sawmill man told me more than once that wood stored outside will never get below 14%.Whenever I take a stave in roughed out to a bow I leave it in the house sometimes 3 to 4 weeks at 45-50 percent humididity.Controlled setting by a hum. & temp. meter.I like 45% humidity at about 80 degrees.Weighing it to see when it quits losing weight.Putting a fan on it can help too.I'll do a few staves this way so I don't have to wait so long on the next one to dry.Kind of like an expressline.Now this can be hurried up if you make a hot box.The less density the wood the quicker moisture comes and goes.
If you would have left your board in an enviornment like this for weeks it may have worked for you I don't know or weigh it then put it in the shower then weighing it again as the moisture leaves.
I know it can be hard to wait but all wood is the same boards or staves.
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My wood is basically kept outside(garage) This summer some cascara was at 18% and I checked it yesterday .....24% :)
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Don't give up on the boards if you have them. Just treat them different. If you hed a stave explode ,would you give up on them? Blend your experiences with those of others to get a more complete picture of a design or species. That's what these sites are for . Good luck.
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thank you :) i think i will back the rest of them, and see if they fare better. I have a large assortment of useless silk ties, will these be strong enough to hold it together? if i layer them, maybe?
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That will keep you busy while you go cut some HHB staves. That stuff usually grows near beech which grows near cherrry up here, often times anyway.
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ive never worked with HHB. i dont know if i could pick it out this time of year if i saw it. the bark is shaggy like hickory, right?
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Search out pics of Hophornbeam bark...its easy to identify..and when you find one there will be a grove of them...n I have seen lots of nice hophornbeam in and around the Holland area(where I'm from)...nicer than the stuff around here where I live now(pa)...there is Osage in the area too and I know where somes at >:D
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oh really? i do like working with osage, too. but my experience with osage is limited to straight, knotless, problem free staves. i need to get myself a piece of character osage, so i can get a real impression of it. the only osage tree that i know of is about a 5 minute drive from me, but its on a nature preserve :( my luck for ya. so i have an offer for you: if you have a piece of character osage that you would be willing to get rid of i will send you a piece of hornbeam in exchange when i find some :)