Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Shaun on December 15, 2012, 02:25:21 pm

Title: My first X bow - finished pics pg 2
Post by: Shaun on December 15, 2012, 02:25:21 pm
Thanks Dane for the inspiration with your recent thread. This is one of those projects that has been on the back burner for some time. Being retired (mostly) allows me to spend many hours doing what I love - hunting and making bows. Gun season in Iowa prohibits using bows for some silly reason and it lasts 17 days - ends tomorrow. So, I have even more time than usual in the shop.

Pear tiller, yew prod, pear spring clip & safety, bloodwood pegs & push pin, elk leg bone shelf veneer, hemp prod tie, modern string material 32 strand Flemish, no metal. My idea was to make a Medieval cross bow with wood prod and simple shelf/push pin trigger. 

It worked way better than I expected for a first try. I am so exited about it that I took pictures to share before final sanding and finish. My first trial shot I was scared and cringing, but it worked fine. The 500 grain bolt flew too fast to see from 5 yards and buried to fletching in my block target. I then added the spring clip and made the safety block. Have not figured out the fine points of aiming yet, but hope to take a wild hog with this in Texas this winter.

Bow with stringer rope (not sure how these were braced historically, but dreamed up this method)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow012.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow011.jpg)

Braced

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow001.jpg)

Yew prod made like a 32" paddle bow pulls 105# @ 9.5" draw lock.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow003.jpg)

Tied on with hemp cordage

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow010.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow009.jpg)

Safety block

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow007.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow008.jpg)

Having the bolt slipping around for first shot was disconcerting, so I added the spring clip. This not only holds the bolt solid on the bow but cut out in spring stops the bolt at just the right spot even with the shelf. You can see the elk bone facing on the shelf peeking out under the clip.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow005.jpg)

I was surprised by how far the yew short bow would bend as I used a tiller stick while making it. And shocked by the draw weight when I tied on the prod and pulled it up to cocking point with scale. Old school cocking system is to stand on the sides of the prod next to the tiller with my toes, bend over the tiller which is cut to fit at my waist and pull up string with arms - easier than in sounds. The shelf with push pin triggering is stiff but clean at the break. Sounds like a mousetrap going off though I think its mostly the spring clip slapping.  I may have to buy a 9 v battery and dig around for the old  speed thingy.

One more

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow006.jpg)
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: ionicmuffin on December 15, 2012, 02:26:56 pm
Wow! cool crossbow!
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: SLIMBOB on December 15, 2012, 03:10:01 pm
THAT...is way cool!
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: JonW on December 15, 2012, 04:07:07 pm
Fabulous job Sir. I may have to try one sometime.
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: paulsemp on December 15, 2012, 04:11:17 pm
awesome job! I have always wanted to try one and I am bookmarking this post!
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: Del the cat on December 15, 2012, 05:36:43 pm
Nice.
Interesting clip arrangement.
Gotta love the click - thud of crossbow shooting :)
Del
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: Dane on December 15, 2012, 05:42:20 pm
I love it. Just awesome. Nice to think I helped inspire a beautiful weapon.

Really nice job on the bastard string, which is what they called the string you use to brace the prod. I've never seen it done this way, and may try out your method. Whatever it takes to string a crossbow is a good thing.

Be sure and really get that cocking point as smooth as possible to minimize string wear. This kind of trigger is a very ancient design. The Swedish Skain bows use this system, they were all wooden crossbows, as well. So does the Chinese repeater crossbows.

They are so much fun to shoot, and have a much differnt feel than a self bow. I am looking forward to seeing finished pictures.

Dane


Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: Dane on December 15, 2012, 06:23:51 pm
Also, if I can give one more bit of advice, make sure the top surface of your tiller is as smooth as possible, again, to minimize friction, for a faster release and to miminize string wear, since the string is pressing down on the tiller, as is true for all crossbows.

Dane
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: Shaun on December 15, 2012, 06:31:26 pm
Got a battery and shot through the crono, 145 fps 455 grn bolt. Not spectacular, but very hunt worthy. With a little practice I am now able to hit the standard school ring target 6" bull at 20 yards. Again, not spectacular shooting but wild boars will be in big trouble. Will finish it out and make a set of bolts next. Finish photos will come in a day or two.

Dane, I did smooth the trigger shelf area and plan to serve the string with Halo (kevlar) to help with string life. Will also pad the spring clip with a thin soft leather piece where it hits the tiller to help quiet the snap.  The notch in the spring clip works like a charm for positioning the bolt at the shelf. Thanks for the tips and again for the inspiration to move this project from daydream to shavings on the shop floor.
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: bow101 on December 16, 2012, 08:15:48 pm
Looks real sweet. Could you possibly post a few pics of your Trigger mechanism..? ;) Will hopefully be building a XBOW in the near future, to many other projects on the go. Just finishing a new White Oak board bow 68 NTN 55# 28" & a Red Oak board bow but much lighter and shorter.
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: KellyG on December 16, 2012, 08:51:47 pm
That is different for sure. Good luck with it.
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: Will H on December 16, 2012, 08:57:45 pm
Very cool!
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: iowabow on December 16, 2012, 09:02:30 pm
That is very cool ...would be fun to do a 3d shoot with one.
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: Dane on December 16, 2012, 09:05:57 pm
I hope this is okay to post on your thread, Shaun. It is an illustration of a Skane crossbow, two of which were recovered from the site of a castle that fell to a peasant uprising in Sweden in about 1525.

(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/Ur_Josef_Alms_skrift_1.jpg)

I believe the peasants won :)
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: PatM on December 16, 2012, 09:19:12 pm
I love it. Just awesome. Nice to think I helped inspire a beautiful weapon.

Really nice job on the bastard string, which is what they called the string you use to brace the prod. I've never seen it done this way, and may try out your method. Whatever it takes to string a crossbow is a good thing.

Be sure and really get that cocking point as smooth as possible to minimize string wear. This kind of trigger is a very ancient design. The Swedish Skain bows use this system, they were all wooden crossbows, as well. So does the Chinese repeater crossbows.

They are so much fun to shoot, and have a much differnt feel than a self bow. I am looking forward to seeing finished pictures.

Dane
There is no reason that the entire length of the tiller can't be scooped out to minimize string contact completely. The bolt only needs to rest on the front and contact the string at the back.
 
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: iowabow on December 16, 2012, 10:43:25 pm
I still dont get how it fires
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: iowabow on December 16, 2012, 10:51:27 pm
Ok now i think the string fits in the groove and the peg pushs it up?
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: bow101 on December 16, 2012, 10:53:40 pm
If you look at the the second figure in the photo, It has a long stick type trigger which pivots and pushes  on a sort of dowel. This releases the string and bolt.
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: iowabow on December 16, 2012, 10:58:14 pm
Looks like the lever pushes up on the peg. So the string has to ride above center.
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: bow101 on December 16, 2012, 11:01:49 pm
Ya not sure if that's my fave way to go. I would lean more towards the roller nut trigger myself. It's been tried and true and tested for hundreds of years.
Sometime I'll get a photo of my design, it works fine, but only good for low weight up to maybe 60#. Kind of proud of it though I designed it myself.
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: twilightandmist on December 16, 2012, 11:15:17 pm
my question is how you dug the trough or the bolt? ive been meaning to make one, but could never quite make heads or tails of that part
Title: Re: My first X bow
Post by: Shaun on December 17, 2012, 02:29:12 am
Bolt grove cut with carving gouge and finished with sandpaper on a dowel.  I will try to make trigger mechanism clear in finished photos. I have made a couple of changes since first post; thickened lower trigger arm because it was flexing too much and changed the top clip to screw attachment for access to trigger shelf and pin. I know this added metal to the design but I used brass flat head screws which were available in the middle ages. Final coat of finish drying and bolts under construction. More pics real soon.
Title: Re: My first X bow - finished pics pg 2
Post by: Shaun on December 17, 2012, 11:03:53 am
Not done making bolts but have finish and final modifications done so here ya go

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow033.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow019.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow020.jpg)

Side view shows trigger lever, This can be a separate piece like the ones in Dane's diagrams posted before or part of the original tiller piece like this one. The wood flexes to hinge as handle is pulled up. Overlay added to make more stiff as it was flexing too much to allow use from the back end where leverage is greatest.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow016.jpg)

Modified spring clip with brass screws to allow access to trigger area for cleaning, waxing and repair.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow028.jpg)

Trigger details... this is a "shelf and push-pin" style trigger. The string hooks on the shelf and the pin pushes it up to release. This is not as smooth and accurate as a rolling block but much simpler to construct.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow022.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow027.jpg)

I love the look of the short yew prod (bow) when viewed for the firing angle

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/shaunw/Xbow030.jpg)
Title: Re: My first X bow - finished pics pg 2
Post by: skyarrow on December 17, 2012, 11:39:42 am
Man that turned out sweet
Title: Re: My first X bow - finished pics pg 2
Post by: iowabow on December 17, 2012, 12:48:16 pm
great job
Title: Re: My first X bow - finished pics pg 2
Post by: killir duck on December 17, 2012, 01:18:52 pm
well done! much better than my last crossbow i really like the way you did the lever simple yet highly functional
Title: Re: My first X bow - finished pics pg 2
Post by: dwardo on December 17, 2012, 04:42:01 pm
Never been much of a crossbow fan if at all. But thats lovely.  8)
Title: Re: My first X bow - finished pics pg 2
Post by: Dane on December 18, 2012, 05:45:26 pm
All the way around excellent, Shaun.

Dane
Title: Re: My first X bow - finished pics pg 2
Post by: iowabow on January 06, 2013, 07:29:35 am
I got to shoot this x bow while at Shaun's place and it was a hoot to play with. It is super simple and very fast for its size. He did a great job on the build. Shaun has a fantastic work shop and is very much the craftsman. He keep pulling out other bows as well that I tested out...yew, osage elb, ratan, hickery, and a sapling bow with bark on. It was fun to see what other people make and do with there spare time. Also thanks for letting me hunt, that area is golden it seemed like every 6 inches there was a foot print from deer.
Title: Re: My first X bow - finished pics pg 2
Post by: Roy on January 06, 2013, 07:39:26 am
That is pretty neat, Shaun.
Title: Re: My first X bow - finished pics pg 2
Post by: lostarrow on January 06, 2013, 12:18:22 pm
That's awesome Shaun! One suggestion you may already know(dissregard if you do) .If you mark on the string where it falls on the edges of the stock  when cocked , your nocking point will be consistant. If the string moves one way or the other when cocking , it will shoot all over the place (left and right) .  Cross bows of this type tend not to self center. Beautiful job once again.
 
ps . you may want to check your local game laws regarding the use of crossbows. Thery are legal here in Ontario, but pretty specific on draw weight and length of bolt etc.
Title: Re: My first X bow - finished pics pg 2
Post by: danny f on January 06, 2013, 01:36:18 pm
that looks awesome,i would love to make one of those.
Title: Re: My first X bow - finished pics pg 2
Post by: IsaacW on April 10, 2014, 05:08:21 pm
With extreme interest and a question, I would like to drag up this older thread.  On a bow like this, do the bolts have nocks or does the string just push a flat back of the bolt?  I have been looking at Xbows with this type of trigger and am tempted to try building one.

IW
Title: Re: My first X bow - finished pics pg 2
Post by: IdahoMatt on April 10, 2014, 05:34:36 pm
Great job man.  That sure something on my bucket list.  You did it proud too.
Title: Re: My first X bow - finished pics pg 2
Post by: criveraville on April 10, 2014, 09:22:00 pm
Very cool cross bow!  ;)

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