Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Cyrille on December 13, 2012, 02:38:55 pm
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I am NOT against the use of firearms for hunting, In point of fact I am all in favor of those that do so legally.
That being said:
I am in a bit of a quandary as to why firearms are being discussed on a thread in a forum titled "Primitive Archer?" can anyone enlighten me?
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Valid question..Please remember my friend. This is around the campfire the place to discuss other topics. Bows is for primitive bows only. Hunting is only for primitive harvests. Here we can talk about guns, glass bows, other interests and topics (Excluding politics and religon). The occasional rant or concern. We all have other hobbies and like to share.
Thanks Leroy
We were typing same time
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Flint knapping, knife making, hide tanning, tractor repair, pipe smoking, trapping, guns, and much much more are all discussed around our campfire :)
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lots of things are talked about around a campfire.i like seeing what other people are into.we are all from different places in the world.sometime you get to see things that you may never get to see in your life or never knew exsisted.i like the campfire.
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Thank you all for your input. You have enlightened me. It's good to know that I may speak of my B.W. bow here and quite a number of other topics.
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you are allowed to speak of all of these things and we want to hear about it.i also have a black widow longbow.share your feellings with the group brother.just no politics or religions.
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Oh no the dreaded plywood mafia ;D, How would I know of this, hmm, I also have an old black widow. :o :o. Later Bob
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O.k. This is a question I asked the B.W. boys a few weeks ago didn't really get a satisfactory reply. My bow an '09 PMA came with a a Dyana-Flight 97 string, and me, not knowing any diffrent went along with this from '09 to November of this year replacing the string every year with a new FF string of the same make.
However, this year when it was time to replace the string I didn't have a Dyana-Flight 97 string. So going through my archery gear I came across a brand new still in the bag Dacron B-50 that I had ordered for another of my bows of the same AMO as my BW so I tried it on the PMA and found almost immediately that it shot much better than the Dyana flight 97 ever did.
My scores climbed by 3 to 4 points at my next practice session and have remained there since replacing that string with the Dacron-B-50!
My question to BW was; why, since BW supplies a Dyanaflight with every bow or limb set why does my particular bow shoot more accurately with the Dacron B-50 than it did with the Dyana flight? The answer... "Looks like I found a sweet spot"
Really--- Now can anyone offer an explanation as to why the Dacron string shoots more accurately than the dyanaflight one.
I really would like to know.
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This is just a guess, but I would think it might be because the b-50 string has more stretch. This means that when the string "hits home" it absorbs some of the energy that would otherwise go into the limbs. Have you noticed any less hand-shock upon release? If so, that would make the bow a little more forgiving to any imperfections in your technique.
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Can't remember ever feeling hand shock with the FF string and I definitely do not feel any with the Dacron one. But I have noticed that the Dacron string is much quieter, as quiet as the FF one was with string silencers if not more so.
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Can't explane that,it is usually just the opposite, ff is usually faster/quieter as far as accuracy it will shoot either where you point. I have 3 by the way and my son has one also. :) Widows are known to be noisy if you let the brace get low anyway. :)
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Pappy, I know the FFs are speedier But in my experience they are definitely not quieter and as far as I can determine the Dacron B-50 string is more accurate too. Just my two cents.
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Instictive archery is a 100% head game. Just knowing you changed something on your set up can convince your mind its better, as a result you concentrate more and shoot better. I would be willing to bet if a guy could secretly replace your string with FF your scores wouldnt go down and your bow wouldnt be loud.
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Just a possibility ,but do your Arrow nocks fit differently on this string?Did your braceheight change? You know, all those little things you can do to tune your traditional bow. Maybe it's just one of those little things we take for granted after shooting the same setup for years.
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My nock point is about a 1/16" lower than on the FF string, B H is 7 7/8" instead of the recommended 8 1/4 to 9." Remember this is a Dacron -B-50.
I would like to know if the recommended B.H. is different for the Dyana-Flight -97 than it is for the Dacron B-50? Both strings are Flimish twist.
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I believe your nocking point should be at the same positon relative to the arrow rest, regardless of the string unless maybe you change the thickness of arrows. When adjusting the brace height ,the nocking point on the string moves up or down on the string and will likely have to be readjusted. Also ,the brace height really makes a big difference in how your bow will shoot with your particular arrows. If you know all of this ,please casually ignore. Sounds like your new setup is just that much closer to being tuned and when you do get it complete,you'll be ready for the world championships.
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Arrow thickness has been the same since I bought the bow in "09, 11/32; arrow length is 30" BOP to nock throat with 160 gr points 3, 5" feather fletching, wood arrows.
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I guess what I'm getting at ,is that sometomes things might shoot O.K. and we automatically start to compensate for minor shortcomings with our setup without even realising it. When your setup changed , you may have resolved an issue or two that you didn't know you had. Now when you shoot,you are allowed to let your natural ability to shine through with out your mind trying to hijack the process. The guys I have taught to shoot are always amazed at how natural it feels and how quickly they pick it up. They ones who have shot before had only used the crap setups at summer camps or highschool without a proper theory lesson . Totally different experience. It truely is an amazing relationship that we have with our sticks and strings!Have you observed your arrow flight? (long distance shots allow more time to see what it's doing) From there you can start to zero in on what brace height , nocking point,etc. will work best for you. Your bow is likely centershot ,or close to it ,which makes it more forgiving of arrow spine. But all factors of tuning should be explored in a methodical manner. Keep us updated with your findings,as I'm sure others withB.W. bows could benefit. I remember (25-30 yrs ago)looking at those adds in the magazines and drooling over them. Nice looking creatures!
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I have thus far shot as far as 25yds and do fairly well when I get the holdover right. I have noticed my arrows make a complete turn @ that distance or a bit more. @ 20yds they mostly make a complete turn and less at shorter distances [15yds.]
Which is the minimum distance I shoot I also shoot that distance when "bare shafting.' The bow is cut 3/16 of an inch pass center. The nock point is set to let the arrow lie evenly on the shelf of the bow with perhaps just a barely noticable downward pointing of the tip.
I brace the arrow's nock below the string nock when I shoot. (split-finger) never have shot 3under as I find that uncomfortable.
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By turn ,do you mean they are spinning ,or fishtailing/porposing?Are your nocks tight on the serving or just tight enough?Also as mentioned previously, the brace height may just be a better fit for your bow.Ive just started playing with FF strings but hve noticed they seem to make the bow a little snappier. That trait may also exagerate any small flaw in form or release. Could also be that the FF has little stretch and therefore sends some of that extra energy through the limbs (complete speculation) . Does your bow seem to have less hand shock with dacron?
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No, by "turn" I mean rotation at 25yds the cock feather in the 9:0 clock position in the target area the same as it was when it was nocked on the string. my arrow nocks are just tight enough so that they remain on the string when the bow is in the horizontal position.
To be honest, I never noticed any handshock with either type of string.
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Rotation is not what I would look for ,but rather if the arrows are recovering from paradox quickly . When taking a longer shot you get a bit more time to watch the flight. I was wondering if the arrows are /were not flying properly due to spine,brace height, nocking point etc. If your setup is well tuned ,the arrows fly to their mark as if by magic. Right where you are looking. You could try increasing or decreasing brace height to see what happens to your arrow flight (just be sure that you are getting your arrow nocked square to the rest ,as every twist of the string will likely change the position of your nocking point). I like the way you are thinking. Something improved so if you can find out why, it may get better yet. If you post this question on the main bow section you'l get a lot more responses from a broader range of experience than just I. Or you may just find that you are a better shot today than you were yesterday. ;) The only way to know for sure is to bring it to the same brace height as your ff string was and start adjusting from there untill you get optimal performance. The manufacturer's specs don't take into factor all of the variables of individual setups.