Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Badly Bent on November 22, 2012, 12:33:32 pm

Title: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Badly Bent on November 22, 2012, 12:33:32 pm
Happy Thanksgiving to all, and for those of us who can't take a break even on a holiday......... lend me your eyes.
Knotty buckthorn in progress: what do you suggest I do next to take to full draw?

Current specs; Low braced to 4/12"
                       Current mass wt. 14.25oz.
                        Set so far apprx. 3/4" to 1"
                       ntn 58 1/2"
                       Drawn to 19" and approx 40#
                       Target wt. mid 50's @ 26"
Thinking I should get it bending a little more in handle and fade area but I could be wrong, have been before :).
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: SLIMBOB on November 22, 2012, 01:02:31 pm
Hard to find anything to critique.  I thought at first glance it might be hinged slightly at the big knot, mid bottom limb.  I blew it up some and it looks perfect.  Great job on such a knotty piece of work.

Yep, die hards!  I'm gonna post a little plains bow here shortly once the handle dries.
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Badly Bent on November 22, 2012, 01:45:23 pm
Hey Slim, thanks for your input. Don't want to pull it further till I'm sure everything is ok at this point. Also concerned about more set as I stress it more extending the draw length, plus the knots are a bit intimidating. Much more knotty than anything I've ever worked on and I don't want her to snap. Also limbs are starting to get kind of thin and with the knots I'm not sure if side tillering is possible.??
Been heat treated once after pulled to this length then belly scraped to bring her back to this weight at 19" draw.
Greg
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Jodocus on November 22, 2012, 02:25:44 pm
 :o

drool..

Looks like it's done, no?
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Weylin on November 22, 2012, 02:29:31 pm
I can't find anything wrong with that tiller. It's time to bite the bullet and pull her back a little further. If it blows it blows but you can't blame yourself for a bad tiller.
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Badly Bent on November 22, 2012, 02:30:22 pm
Jodocus, not done yet, still need 7" more on draw. Waiting for more input before I do something foolish like crank her back and ruin it. :)
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Del the cat on November 22, 2012, 02:30:35 pm
Carry on doing whatever you did to get this far...
Looking good
Del
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: rps3 on November 22, 2012, 03:06:11 pm
From another guy who cant take a break on the holiday, I am at work, your bow looks stiff to me on the bottom limb just below the big knot under your pinky finger for 6 inches or so.
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Badly Bent on November 22, 2012, 03:35:18 pm
Weylin; had it strung the last few hours sweating and occasionally pulling to that 19" length, probably more like 45 t0 50# at that length. Thinking I'll round the edges a bit more and smooth a bit more with sandpaper then pull a couple more inches.
Del; Thanks for your encouragment. :)
rps3: thanks for the input, that area between the lower fade knot and the 1st midlimb knot on the bottom limb has a canoe like reflex that is giving me trouble on the read. Already thinned that area of the limb quite a bit and not sure what to do next in that area, don't want to get to thin there. Good eye my friend, thats what I'm looking for.
Greg
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: dmenzies1950 on November 22, 2012, 03:54:02 pm
Greg,  The tiller looks good to me, but as you said you could probably afford to take some wood off of the handle area if you are afraid of it blowing up on you.   Dale
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Knapper on November 22, 2012, 04:06:34 pm
Yes. In the first pic the tiller looks great but from the other side the handle area does look a little stiff.
But overall it does look really good , just scrap full leanth and get draw length and weight
Knapper
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: mikekeswick on November 22, 2012, 04:12:02 pm
I would say that the shape is good so far, maybe a little stiff in the handle area but that isn't a bad thing at this stage. If you are going for a 26 inch draw then I would keep it a little stiff in the handle (leave it alone) until at 23. Once at 23 start rounding and scraping a little until until you notice a faction of a drop in weight (digital scales help) or you feel that hint of movement. A bendy handle bow should be felt and not seen!!
So to get to 23....I would definately start working into the knots a little so the belly profiles the back more closely. I can see a few spots that are starting to look a little thin either side of the knots. Look at the side profile and you will see that where the knots are the limbs are quite a bit thicker....i'm not saying 'just scoop them out' but you belly should end up with lots of smooth dips. I think that your set is coming from the thin bits having to do all the bending work.
Hope that makes sense ;)
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Keenan on November 22, 2012, 04:16:43 pm
Greg, She looks like a beauty. You have done great on your tiller with all those knots. I agree that you are just slightly stiff in the handle right above your hand to the first knot Depending on what you want for final weight you could maybe gain a little safety in draw length by getting that handle are to flex slightly. Outside of that it looks great.
 I have two ye bows that are very similar, that I am just finishing.  You are doing great!
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: blackhawk on November 22, 2012, 04:43:00 pm
I agree with mike n keenans assessment ...sorry I didn't come in earlier,but I been tillering/shooting in a new one too today!!! :)
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: H Rhodes on November 22, 2012, 06:09:27 pm
I agree with Mike and I wouldn't worry about the stiffness around the handle so much, since that is the last place you would want your bow to show any set.  I admire the slow and deliberate way that you tiller a bow.  Maybe I will slow down and take a page out of your book.  Great looking bow Greg.  Keep doing what you are doing.  Happy Thanksgiving and your fellow OCD bow builders salute you.
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Zion on November 22, 2012, 08:32:22 pm
Looks awsome to me. And looks like you'll be able to hit target weight. Can't wait to see it in FULL DRAW!!!!!!
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Badly Bent on November 23, 2012, 12:54:10 am
Just got home from Thanksgiving dinner and wanted to thank my friends here for your input on this project. Lots of good advice and I think I now have a good idea how to proceed with this bow. Hoping to have some time tomorrow to work on getting her stretched out
a little further. Thanks guys.
Greg
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Carson (CMB) on November 23, 2012, 02:23:57 pm
That is coming along nicely.  What a character piece!  It looks a little stiff in the handle area, more so on the upper limb. 
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: JonW on November 23, 2012, 07:36:00 pm
No advice to add that already hasn't been said. Keep up what ya got going and let me see her yanked on back.
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: missilemaster on November 23, 2012, 10:01:38 pm
She's looking really good so far Greg, good job. I would also say to remove a little more wood from the handle area, but go real slow. Dont want it to end up weak in that area. Really impressed with its looks so far. I can tell this is'nt your first character bow.
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: steve b. on November 24, 2012, 03:41:43 am
That is really cool.....
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Arrowind on November 24, 2012, 11:02:59 am
I can't believe you are making a bow out of that!  Just awesome.  looking forward to seeing how it turns out!
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow (Update w/pic)
Post by: Badly Bent on December 02, 2012, 05:16:07 pm
Well sometimes they break!
Gonna grab  another split of this stuff from the stave pile and try again though, tension break lower limb at 27" draw.
Greg
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Carson (CMB) on December 02, 2012, 05:22:19 pm
That is a heart breaker. :'( :'( :'(  Man, you were right there too.  Like you said, sometimes the break. 
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Will H on December 02, 2012, 05:25:55 pm
Man I hate that for ya! It was looking so nice too. well if you ain't breakin, you ain't makin ::)
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: SLIMBOB on December 02, 2012, 05:26:48 pm
Too bad man.  Ya know, if this were easy, and we didn't ever have THAT happen, we'd be doin' something else.
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: diliviu on December 02, 2012, 05:37:11 pm
Great tiller!
For that width of the handle, I would not make it bend more in the handle compared to the rest of the bend - compared to how it's bending now (I mean make it bend a little more allover, but bend same way as it's bending now).
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: diliviu on December 02, 2012, 06:08:22 pm
Oh, I've just seen. Really sorry for it!
(Pretty unexpected for me to break at this draw length, these dimensions and this tiller, even such a knotty buckthorn.)
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: blackhawk on December 02, 2012, 07:11:43 pm
ARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH  >:(......happens to all of us tho
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Zion on December 02, 2012, 07:27:22 pm
That sucks bro. But hey, ya never know what a piece of wood will do. So many times it looks perfect and then it randomly explodes. I hope the other half will work!
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: H Rhodes on December 03, 2012, 04:23:34 am
Dang it!  I doubt it is anything you did wrong Greg.  You tiller a bow with the best of them!   You really can't tell what's going on inside a piece of wood till you BEND it.  Sometimes there is just some little imperfection that just won't let it be a bow.   :(  On the bright side, the woods are full of trees. ;)
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Badly Bent on December 03, 2012, 08:44:56 am
Thanks for the kind words gang, not my first failed bow and won't be the last I'm sure lol. Learned some things from this project and glad I posted it up for advice from all you. This buckthorn is some cool wood and I have three more staves of it and I'm sure I'll get a shooter out of it.
This break happened on the bottom limb between the big knot at the fade and the next big knot 6" down. That area had a canoe like reflex and was somewhat concave on the back side with the limb edges rolled up above the center of the limb. Got it to thin there I
think, trying to get it bending in that area when maybe I shouldn't have. Extreme character staves are fun and challenging and it sure
keeps bow building interesting, won't be my last attempt at one of these. :)
Greg
Title: Re: tiller check buckthorn bow
Post by: Jodocus on December 03, 2012, 09:47:27 am
Ah, what a pity. You could just as well have pulled it back then...  ::)
Sorry about that one, and good luck on the next.