Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Chuck Jones on October 01, 2007, 02:54:58 pm
-
Well, after my first disaster the advice was to post as I went along for help to get the feel of what I am doing. I may have already gone to far in shaping of the bow. At the fades it is 1 1/4" tapering to 1/2" nocks. The length is 70"'s tip to tip. At this point using a level the measurments are the same on each side of center. From center I measured out 6"'s on each side then marked the bow in 4" segments as a reference. What do you think so far?
The first picture is bow pulled to 10" with a long string. The second picture is the bow pulled to 18" with a long string and with a weight of 32 #'s.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
I apologize for the poor quality of the pictures. Maybe a different background would be better.
-
Looks stiff mid limb on. See Bow Making Directions on my site. There's no need to pull it to 18 in. I assumeyoumean 18 in of string travel. Jawge
-
Jawge, The 18"'s that I mentioned was from the back of the bow with the long string. First pull on the bow from floor tillering. The string travel was 12" from the point where the long string just begins to put pressure on the bow.
-
After posting my first bow that was a disaster I had a lot of comments about posting pictures and asking questions. That seemed to be a logical choice for my next bow to be a learning expierence. So, I was rather surprized when I had such little response. I am on my own doing now what I think needs to be done to see how this one will come out. I am tillering the middle third out to about 6 inches of the tips....thanks to those who have responded to my picture...chuck
-
Chuck what type of wood is it? Board or stave/ You say its 1.25" at fades that is pretty narrow for white woods but with a 70" length
you may get away with it. If its a board i would back it with linen, silk, or heavy paper. I agree with Jawge shes stiff from midlimb out. i would leave the near handle area alone for now. Also what draw length and weight are you going for?
-
Dana the wood is red oak. My draw is 26" with a longbow. I am doing this one for the practice to try and get the technique down. I weight I would like to see in a longbow is 50-55, however, I am thinking that this one will be lucky to get to 45#. I have backed it with a single layer of burlap. I have a string on her braced at 2". 10" of string travel gives me 31 #'s. Here's another picture. I know the right limb still needs a lot of work...chuck
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
The left is still stiff from the middle out, I'm still not sure that it will hold up at 50# but with the length of the bow
and 26" draw it may make it. If your aiming for 50# don't ever pull it more than that and be sure to exercise 20-30
times between each wood removal. Take your time there is no hurry.
-
Thanks DanaM for your input. I do excercise it 40-50 times after each scraping. I dont expect this bow to be much over 45# after final sanding and shooting it in. This one is for proper practice and technique. If I get that far the next one will be at 50-55#'s I hope...thanks..chuck
-
Just take it slow and easy. get the left bending out just a bit further, then take the right limb down to match it. 1 1/4" wide is a bit narrow for a stiff-handled red oak, you will probably be better off at 35-45# with the narrow width.
-
I sai ::)d left but I believe I meant right, what can I say I'm challenged ;)
-
remove wood from the right limb. not from the fades, but from the midlimb and towards the tips. take it slow. If you rush and mess up at this point, you will lose a lot of pounds from draw weight.
-
I would only work on the right limb till I catch it up,the left isn't looking all that bad.
Do you know witch is the top limb yet ? Are they the same length ? :)
Pappy
-
Wow, I am really happy to know that the limb to work on is the right. Thats is what I thought and I kept looking at the left limb and then the right limb and I just didnt get it. I get it now and can continue. Like I said before this bow will probably end up just for the expierence of getting limbs to bend right. It is pulling 31# right now and if I can get 45# out of it I will be happy. If not the grandson will have something to grow into....thanks all for the input...chuck
-
Pappy--At this particuliar stage of learning I dont know if there is a rule of thumb as to which limb should be the top limb. Just because, no real reason, I have chosen the right limb to be the top limb. The bow is 70"'s long at this point, 35"'s to center, and each limb is 35"s from the tips. I might also add that I dont have much artistic ability in my eyes that is why I gave up blacksmithing and stuck with just beating out knives when I want another one. To judge the curves to make artistic work was not for me. That is why this curvature thing is a little bit of a problem to me. That is why I made the "tillering thingy" that is posted on another forum. It seems to be working for me now....thanks for the advice...chuck
-
If the limbs= it don't mater.I usually decide when I get a string on it at short brace.Look and see if it is right down the center if so either will work,if it is a little off to one side and you don't want to straighten it the the off side should be where you will nock your arrow and depending on weather you are R or L handed decide on the top limb.I hope for the weaker limb to be top just so I don't wast a lot of weight trying to catch the other up.Of course at that length and your draw length you can always cut it down a little to pick up some weight. :)
Pappy
-
I have been measuring from the back of the bow to make my markings out to 26"'s which is my drawlength. Is that the way it is done or is it measured from the belly?
I have done some more work on the right limb from the mid section out to about 4"'s from the tip. When I look at the bow the right limb doesnt look right to me. However, when I put my 48" level across the back the measurements are the same. To obtain the measurments I made marks on the limbs measuring from the center line. Marks are about 4"'s apart and the measurements are the same out to the end of the level. Pic's follow...thanks..chuck
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Looking better, I'd keep working the midlimb areas.
VB
-
Looking good,mid limb of the right limb still looks a little stiff.You should be about ready for a low brace.It may look a little different when you do that. :)
Pappy
-
Looks good. Now make sure the limb starts to bend at the end of the fades. Jawge
-
Its starting to look like a bow to me :D. Looking good. Keep us posted.
-
Sorry for not responding sooner. I am really disappointed now because I broke the bow on both tips. I was seeing that the bow had 1 1/2 of set and thinking that it would only increase before I finished. I had read that one way to reduce that set was to put some reflex (if I have the right term) into the bow. I did so and either I didnt apply enough heat of the set was to much. Both limbs broke more than half way thru. The burlap probably helped it from breaking all the way.
I have glued it back together now but I dont think it has any chance of survival. I had thought about wraping it with rawhide what do you all think?...chuck
-
I have had that happen before,can you cut them off or is it to far down on the limb?
Rapping probably won't help.
Pappy
-
sorry to hear about that. :-[ The best thing I would do is to find a stave of some wood suitable for bows and start a new one. If you will start to repair this it will take ages and will slow down your learning process. Don't except for the perfect bow from your first attempts, it's just good to make a shooter at first. My first bow has a terrible tiller and over 3" of set. It still kills a rabbit fine and penetrates a metal plate. only 40# in that one. the more you do this the more you learn. The best way of learning is by mistakes, with this style you won't repeat them.
Never get too attached to a selfbow, they won't last over 5 years if they are in hard daily use. Sinew backed ones and hornbows are a different thing then.
-
Pappy I guess this one needs to go to the fire pit. The breaks are at about 15". Another try coming up.
-
Sorry,sounds like the pit to me.Remember when you try and bend one backwards you have to be
real careful you are going against everything it wants to do.It has to be plyable with either heat or steam,Or do it while it is still green.Better luck on the next one.I broke several when I started and still do on occasion.I know it may not seem that way but you learn and file it away in your head on every one that goes bad and over time you learn what you can get away with and what you can't
and also how to deal with problems as they arise. :)
Pappy
-
A Finnish Native that bow was made out of red oak that I purchased from Home Depot. I have a couple more pieces to work on. I have started another one. It is about ready to put on the tillering tree. I will try another. New to the world of self bows what is it that fails on them after several years of use? I remember as a kid my wood bows lasted forever it seemed anyway.
-
I am sorry. You know it's our fault. Chuck, my first bow had 5 in of set but it shot. let's get you a bow made. May be a dozen bows under your belt then we can worry about set. This is one of my pet peeves. You had such a great tiller going too. It's not your fault, it's our fault for putting such an emphasis on set. We as a community should no better. Beginners, get some bows made then worry about set. ):Jawge
-
I mean that the bows stay in one piece, but they become lazy. and take a lot of set after enough use. now talking about selfbows.
-
I'm hunting with an linen backed ash board bow it has a good 3" of set, it pulls 48# at 26". My self imposed range limit is 10 to 15 yards.
This bow has plenty of omph to kill a deer and the set makes for a soft shooting bow. I've made better bows with less set since this one
but have given them all away ??? Don't worry to much if your first bows take some set, by all means try to minimize it but getting a shooter
is more important.
-
Thanks all I havent given up yet. I have learned some good lessons already. I will continue and see if I can get something worthwhile going...thanks for all of the support...chuck
-
Here is the next try to make a bow! :) This is a piece of red oak that has a burlap backing on it. It is 66" tip to tip. I have a long string on it and it is pulled to 10" in the photo. After each shaving of the limbs I have pulled it 40-50 times not past brace. Just flexing the limbs before I put it on the 10" peg. The 10" is measured at the point that the long string just begins to put pressure on the limbs....chuck
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
now is the time to slow down. put a short string on her and see how she adapts. the tips and outer limbs seem just a bit stiff, but dont touch them yet. A short string will pull the tips in a more powerful way, so see how it goes and take it slow.
-
a finnish native ---By a short string do you mean brace it at about 3". Then start checking the tiller again?...chuck
-
Looks like it is about ready to brace to me.I usually measure from where the back of the bow would be unstrung at the tips and when I get the out to about 8/10 inches I brace it at a low brace ,maybe 4 inches or so.Then go from there.After I get it out a little futher maybe 15 inches I full brace it ,about6 inches.Looking good so far. :)
Pappy
-
yup. somewhere around 3-4 inches.
-
Get some bending near the handle area. Let the bending start at the end of the fades. Jawge
-
Thanks for all the advice I really appreciate it. It is coming along nice now. I was about ready to post another picture when my son-in-law came over and wanted to see the progress. I showed him what it looked like now and took a weight measurement at 10". He wanted to try it and without me realizing it he pulled it well past the 10" and I heard a loud pop. The bow fell to the ground.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
I have since started another bow. I have a short string on it now pulling it to 10". In this picture you can see that I still need to work towards the handle some. I have only worked the limbs to about 6" from the tips. At this point in time the left limb is bending 1/4" more than the right limb....chuck
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Coming along nicely,get a little more bending at the fades should do it.You are determined
I will give you that and that is what it takes,It will AL come togeather. :) ;)
Pappy
-
Pappy---thanks for the encouragement. There has been a lot of work put into these bows. The last one that broke should have been a shooter by now. I really hated to loose it. The one before where the tips broke I have cut off at the breaks and now have a bow that is 36" long. So I am thinking what could I do with a 36" bow. Maybe a crossbow. Of course, I have no idea where to start to do that. Anyway I do enjoy making bows and If I am patient with this one, and droping the weight carefully I think it will make it. I am really excited about the progress so far....chuck
-
Next Question?? At the tip of the fades it is bending about 1/16". Is the bend to start at the tip of the fades? Or deeper into the fades close to the handle? About how much bend from level should I be looking for...thanks...chuck
-
Just out from the fad ,just a little.You don't want it to bend where you have cut in and violated the grain. :)
Pappy
-
This bow was finished I was ready to apply the finish I drew it on the stick for the final weight and it broke on one tip. The break started about mid limb. I was so happy with this one. It shot nicely. I put about 40 arrows thru It and I was excited to finish it off. Oh well, either I cant do this or my wood selection was very poor. Probably the latter. Home depot has a crappy selection to choose from. I have a couple of handle sections now. I guess I will have to dent my wallet and go to the hard wood store now.....chuck
-
Sorry to hear that it broke. Are you backing the bows?
With boards I strogly suggest that you back them with linen, silk, heavy paper etc.
Fabric stores sell linen fairly reasonably, use Titebond 2 or 3 to apply it.
Unless the grain is absoutly perfect you will continue to break them without backing.
Just my opinion.
-
I am getting further along on each one. I make it a practice to back all of my attempts being new at bowmaking I want all of the insurance that I can get. The first bow I used fiberglass dry wall tape but on the last two I used burlap which I believe to be much better. After each scraping I flex the bow 30-50 times making sure not to flex the wood to much. I may be leaving it in a pulled condition to long though....chuck