Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: lostarrow on October 02, 2012, 01:43:16 am
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Here are some basics that might clear things up for anyone that might be fresh to the ways of wood.Hope it helps.
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#1 shows the end grain of a Red Oak board. The tiny holes lined up in rows are the layer directly under the bark in the spring that the water flows through to feed the leaves. The solid layer in between is the wood that is laid down the rest of the year.One layer of spring and one layer of summer ( dormant in the fall and winter) makes one year of growth. The closer the rings, the slower it grew. They will vary in width depending on how good each season was. Damage ,either physical or by insect damage will alter the size and shape of the ring. If you ever see a small spongey straw in the very center of the rings , this is the Pith. Not good in a board, less critical in a bow.
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#2 shows a Medullary ray. These Carry nutrients from the outside of the tree to the pith, which is the new plantlike growth form each year. If you follow the pith from the base of the tree ,it extends into every branch and branchlet until it reaches the extremities where it becomes the new plant and leaf growth for that year.Every year the tree adds a new layer (Cambium) to the outside ,just under the bark.The rays ,you will notice run radially like the spokes on a wheel.
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#3-#4 show the yearly growth rings darkened with pencil to show how they transmit from end to edge grain.
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#5 is edge grain ,#6 is face grain.
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Wait a sec, what grain are we really trying to find when we look for a board? i just recently decided it was the radial grain. but by the sound of it im just lost again. your explaining a lot about the grain, and thats good, but which one are we trying to find?
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The next pic is of the rays as they appear on the edge of this board. then how the might appear if on another board cut at a different angle. #3 in this set is the Rays on the face of a Quarter sawn board.This effect is achieved when the tree is cut perpendicular to the growth rings,radially. this will become clear in the following pics.#4 If you can see the light and dark bands running across the board , these signify curl in the grain. The dark bands are the end grain as it runs up to the face of the board . The light bands are where the grain follows the face of the board before dipping back down and showing end grain again.Looks pretty ,but no good for a bow .(Unless you are good enough to chase that grain up and down.) It shows light and dark because it's reflecting the light differently. Save it for built up handles ,Knives etc.
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Patience, my friend. I type slow and am computarded.
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ok, ill wait and see what your full post will say
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Once you learn the terminology then we are all talking about the same thing and there should be less confusion.More pics and explanation to follow.The drawings (I hope) are self explanatory. The last pic is of the end grain of Quarter Sawn Red Oak. notice how the growth rings run from face to face instead of side to side like the first board?If you make a bow from this one you will have the growth rings running from back to belly on the bow. Think of it like laminating a whole bunch of strips of wood side by side. You have uninterrupted solid summer growth (the dense stuff not the straws) from front to back.Desirable but not the only way to go. Even with this grain orientation you can have grain run off from front to back, so you have to be carefull. If the board is cut from beside a branch, the branch will no be running straight across the grain instead of showing up as a circle on the face .Even if the knot isn't present the grain follows the shape of the knot, and can leave a sharp hump in the edge grain. it is important to know how a tree grows so you can visualise how the board came from the tree. If you look at the end grain and see it is cup shaped across the board , you know that the inside of the cup is the heart side of the tree. The outside is the bark side of the tree. Now look at the edge of the board . If the growth rings(grain) runs fairly straight for a length long enough for the bow you are making , you are doing good. If your board is say 6" wide and the rings are centered in the board you may get 2 Biased boards and one "decrowned stave " from the center. When you look at the face of the board the grain should run fairly parallel to the edges. On the board we were just talking about, it will have the lines (grain) in the middle of the face quite far apart getting tighter together as they approach each edge.Now imagine if someone ripped that into three 2" boards . You would still have 3 good candidates with different grain. That is a flat sawn board used for bows. A flat sawn board is generally more flexable than a Quarter sawn because of the ring orientation we discussed earlier, therefor not being able to make as strong a bow (technically) but the cells on the bark side of a piece of wood are always bigger and more supple than those of the heartwood side, which are more dense and compression resistant.However,every piece of wood is different and no matter how much logic you try to apply , it's a living thing . Make it into a bow and it will continue to live.Don't ever try to work the wood ,but instead work with it . The more you do the more you will understand and enjoy it. I hope this helps. feel free to ask any questions and I will try to answer promptly. Hopefully I'll get the chance to help with the tool use ,maintenance, sharpening aspect within the next few weeks if anyone is interrested.
Dave.
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I guess to sum it up, If you think of a tree as a bundle of straws runing from ground to sky .When you cut a board from it and want to make it bend, you want as many of those straws to remainwhole and run the length of the bow. The straws are the individual cells that are like stretched out football shapes ,all bundled together , running the length of the board. When you look at the end grain you are looking into the end of the straws.
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Thanks for the great explanation Dave. Great info. Lot of it I already knew but I could never have explained it like that and it is great to have a concise refresh to remember the bits that have been forgot over the years ;D Would love to hear more of your thoughts on the other stuff you're wanting to 'splain about.
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Thanks, god job!
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Great post. I think it would be handy to have the explanation next to the picture rather than scrolling up and down.
Then make it a sticky go to reference for anyone asking about grain.
Thanks for the time it took to write all this up 8)
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Very detailed and informative post, LostArrow!! Thanks!! :)
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how do you put the caption next to the pics? It was pretty late when I was trying to do it and didn't have the ambition to figure it out.
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I add my pics to the post. In other words, type what you want to say about the pic, then, insert the pic below the text.
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Thanks ,Ill try that next time.
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Nice write up, lgostarrow. Proper rain choice is vital for success. In plain sawn and rift sawn boards, one can look at the face and one needs straight grain tip to tip as the ideal. All of this depends on the weight one wants though. I allow a couple of run outs per limb for 50-55#. 1.5 in wide out to mid limb. 1 3/8 for 45-50#. I only make bend in the handle board bows. No glued on handles. No narrowing. Not a favored design these days. The trend seems to be geared towards making selfbows look like FG bows these days. Quarter sawn is not my favorite. Look at the edge grain. It has to be straight. No run outs allowed at all. Truth be told I look at the edge grain on all boards and just check the face to make sure the board is milled straight. Jawge
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Just trying to help out here George. These guys have determination! I don't like to see people get discouraged because of lack of info .That's what makes this site so great. If you don't start with the basics you are going to take a lot longer to learn, if you do at all. Saves a ton of mistakes and takes the mystery out of them when they happen. As for the narrow handles ,they have been around allot longer than you or I, but I know what you mean about that FG look that can be hard to shake if that's what you have always known to be a bow. I personally like my bows to be close to center shot so they are less critical with arrow spine. That way I can change up the weight of the arrow points without drastically altering groups (Broadheads, fieldpoint,blunt etc) Also ,if an arrow breaks just behind the point while stump shooting ,I can still use the arrow at a slightly shorter length and it shoots the same as the longer ones. I started to model the board bows after a 1950's all wood American longbow that I picked up in an antique store and modified to get better performance, thus the narrow shelf cut into the side. I also find it easier to teach newbies how to shoot if they don't have to worry as much about where to place the arrow . I tie a leather lace around the handle with a tag end left long . the tag sticks up just above the index finger and gently holds the arrow without impeding it's release.I always make sure not to cut out more from the side than can be accounted for by extra thickness. Not liking the glued up handles ,personally . Just tried one on an ash 60# 'er and after shooting it in I'm looking at it and wondering how I'm going to gracefully blend the whole thing together so it doesn't look like a FG one ( Bulky at the fades). Also drew up a sketch for rift sawn but my camera died before I could post. I'll add more as well with pics of potential problems that can be read from the grain.
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Thanx for making this post it's great info I think that should sticky it once your done modifing it
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Maybe you should change your tag from "lostarrow" to "wood whisperer"!! Very well done. This should be stuck somewhere up top as a sticky topic or whatever they call those things :)
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Great info! This is one post worth keeping track of. Thanks.
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lostarrow, sure narrowed handles are ok. I just think that beginners should not worry about that until they have a bow or 2 or 3 done. Jawge
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lostarrow, sure narrowed handles are ok. I just think that beginners should not worry about that until they have a bow or 2 or 3 done. Jawge
My first dozen or so were all narrow handled with fadeouts. I still find a bend-thru-the-handle to be a real struggle! I've been making more of them simply because they are harder for me. They make me learn good tillering techniques because there is nothing to hide your flaws. Jawge, as usual, makes a good point!
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I hear ya George.Especially if you don't really know how wood works and it's characteristics. I've spent my life learning these things and now I can apply it to my latest obsession.Start simple and over built and whittle the excess down from there. Maybe we should post the exact dimensions of a good reliable "failproof" design for a bow for beginners with a build along. Sort of a " if this one doesn't work, try it again until it does........because it doesn't get any easier". Nothing fancy ,maybe a pyramid or flat bow. Minimal time and cost with limited tools. Lets see what we get from the Experts. I know you've got one in mind already. You beat me to my post J.W.!
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And I, too, believe this thread should be a sticky. Heck, make it required reading for the website! I really appreciated all the effort put into it and will be referring back to it in the future.
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quoteMaybe you should change your tag from "lostarrow" to "wood whisperer"!! Very well done. This should be stuck somewhere up top as a sticky topic or whatever they call those things
People look at me funny when they see me talking to wood! Sometimes it's more "cursing" than" sweet nothings ", and a little too loud to be considered a whisper.
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quoteMaybe you should change your tag from "lostarrow" to "wood whisperer"!! Very well done. This should be stuck somewhere up top as a sticky topic or whatever they call those things
People look at me funny when they see me talking to wood! Sometimes it's more "cursing" than" sweet nothings ", and a little too loud to be considered a whisper.
To quote my father "Shut up and listen".
The wood will tell ya what it wants to be !!
Thanks for taking the time and effert to do this post !
Good job !!
Have fun
Guy
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I agree totally. I don't like the term woodworker. I work WITH wood!