Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: autologus on September 12, 2012, 07:26:24 pm

Title: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: autologus on September 12, 2012, 07:26:24 pm
I know the Christmas Bow Trade is starting up but would anyone be interested in a Bow trade using Red Oak Boards?  I am sure there are some on here like me that is in the process of developing their skills or does not have access to staves that would like to be able to participate in a bow trade.

I have seen many beautiful board bows on this site and I would be proud to own any of them,  I too would like to be able to share something I have crafted with someone else but do not feel worthy to commit to something like the regular bow trades.

If anyone would like to participate I will be glad to take on the overseeing of the trade.  If there is enough interest I believe it could be fun and rewarding for those like me who are just getting their feet wet.

Grady
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: tattoo dave on September 12, 2012, 09:49:44 pm
Hey Grady, I'd be happy to join that trade. And I tell ya what, if nobody else wants to join, then maybe just the two of us could trade. ;)

Tattoo Dave
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: sharpend60 on September 12, 2012, 09:53:23 pm
I'd join in that.
Ive had a hell of a time with staves recently, perhaps I'll switch it up.

Ive never made a board bow...
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: driftingrz on September 12, 2012, 10:10:33 pm
If this happens i may be interested
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: SA on September 12, 2012, 10:14:49 pm
i'm in..
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: paulsemp on September 12, 2012, 10:16:52 pm
Is this trade only red oak? Or is this a board bow trade?
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: JW_Halverson on September 12, 2012, 10:26:01 pm
The spirit of our bow trades have been about what you can send out, not what you receive.  Anyone that would be upset to receive a board bow would do better to keep their name out of all bow trades.  That is not the spirit of this community.
 
A board is nothing but a radically de-crowned stave. Just like choosing boards, you need to excercise judgement when choosing a stave.  Just like staves, the final outcome is dependant on design and execution.  Period.  End of discussion. 

That being said, I'm staying the heck away from a red oak board bow trade.  FAR away.  I get the yips around red oak boards, I ruin 'em just by looking at them!  My record with them is abyssmal and embarassing.  I have succeeded in finishing exactly one of the 7 or 8 that I have tried and it came in 15 lbs under weight because I couldn't get the tiller right.  I'd probably get an amazing bow and have to send out something that looked like a bucket of wood shavings held together with Elmer's school glue and  sun-bleached baling twine. 
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: lostarrow on September 12, 2012, 10:57:45 pm
I'd giver a go . Can we back them?
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: autologus on September 12, 2012, 11:30:40 pm
Paulsemp it is a trade of bows made from red oak boards.

JW I believe you may have misinterpreted what I meant by being proud to own any of the board bows I have seen here, my intent was that I would be proud to own something someone crafted for me regardless of their skill level because they went to the effort to craft it for me.  The joy of something like this is to be able to craft something for someone else. 

Lostarrow If you feel better about backing the bow for safety or beauty then by all means.

The great thing about a trade like this is if you blow up a board or two you don't have much in it and can start over with out much guilt and everyone is kind of on even terms as far as base materials goes and it gives you the ability to be creative with design, finish and personalization.

JW if you could make a bow with a bucket full of shavings, elmers glue and some bleached twine I would certainly be proud to own something like that.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: JW_Halverson on September 12, 2012, 11:53:31 pm
I am sorry if I was unclear, but my unspoken message was that no one should be embarassed to enter into the bow trade if all they have access to is boards for material.  Board bows, as far as I am concerned, are just bows. If anyone thinks board bows are second rate, I dare them to put up their best stave bows against most any of the board bows that have been posted in here over the last year. (The bow you posted with the fake snake skins is a perfect example of a great board bow.)  All natural materials are fair game on this website, with some modern glues and finishes allowed with a blind eye.  Board bow makers have no reason to feel they can't enter into any and all bow trades around here, nor should they be made to feel their bows are second rate.   

Now start offering up some effing-glass bow in a bow trade and you are in for a rousing good fight!

As for making a bow out of a bucket of shavings, elmer's school glue and baling twine, there is a challenge I might just take up.  Please lower all expectations of performance at the door!

Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: sharpend60 on September 13, 2012, 12:26:57 am
The way I view it is...

It's a trade with a set of requirements. No different that proposing a trade with limited tools, speedy builds or neon colors only.

For some of us it might offer a chance to learn something new.
I think most bowyers with a bit of experience don't look down on board bows.
Bows made from Ipe boards are quite common, hickory and osage too. Nobody looks down on those.

I think red oak gets a bad rap because it's cheap and common... sorta like pigeons I guess.

I agree with JW.
No shame in a board bow. Red oak or otherwise.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: fishfinder401 on September 13, 2012, 12:52:36 am
of you do this, do you have any clue on the time of year it would end, oh, and what about a bow made mostly out of red oak, but with a backing of maple...if not thats fine, just curious
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: autologus on September 13, 2012, 12:53:27 am
JW sorry if I misinterpreted your meaning, I do agree with you about the materials but I do not feel I am at a level of experience to take part in the regular bow trade.  I appreciate your kind words and I have to agree about glass. 

I got started shooting 3D last year with a friend and fell in love with archery, I happened to stumble across this site and Paleoplanet and have caught the bug bad, this year will be my first year to bow hunt and can you guess which bow I will be using (I will give you a hit it does not have training wheels).

I have fallen in love so much with primitive archery that I have dreams about bow designs.  You know you have it bad when you love the bow you made from a $9.00 board more than the $650.00 compound.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: autologus on September 13, 2012, 12:59:48 am
Lets keep it mostly Red Oak but can be backed with Silk, Linen, Paper, Rawhide, Sinew ect...  Christmas is coming up and what better Christmas present than a shiny new bow. 
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: Matt Heppe on September 13, 2012, 01:35:16 am
I'm in!
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: ojibwatbowyer on September 13, 2012, 02:38:07 am
 I live 4hrs away from a decent hardware store so decent red oak is not available, believe me, i checked two days ago. But I do have a hickory board I would like to enter if thats okay. I have made a few bows with more success than failure but feel more comfortable making a bow for people with in my own skill range if that makes any sense. I assume this trade is being put fourth for the less experianced in mind.  ???
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: Matt Heppe on September 13, 2012, 08:38:16 am
I think this is a great theme. For many people a red oak board bow was our first bow. This trade will allow new people (like me) a chance to participate using a material we are confident with. It will also give experienced bowyers an opportunity to show their skills on a material many consider to be the basic building block of the beginner bowyer.

I think that if someone puts out a good faith effort to get a red oak board, but is unsuccessful, another board should be ok.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: johnston on September 13, 2012, 10:26:23 am
Yeah, I'm in but it is, after all, hunting season. A Christmas deadline may be a little
quick for serious hunters....just a thought.

As to the skill level for the regular bow trade... I , so far, have built sticks that bend
because I was always in need of a bow to shoot. Never felt I had the time to be
"pretty". My trade bow I sent out this year had tool marks all over cause I just
did not know any better. Point is, if you can make a decent shooting bow you are
qualified for the yearly trade. I'm living proof of that.

When you get it all together let us know about the Red Oak Board Bow Trade.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: autologus on September 13, 2012, 10:56:12 am
I think the spirit of the Red Oak Board Bow Trade is that you make something for someone with materials that is readily available and inexpensive, if a Hickory board is all you got and it would be inconvenient to get a Red Oak then by all means use the Hickory.

Yeah Christmas may be a bit early what would be a good deadline? 6 months?

It sounds like there is a good bit of interest, I will start a list of willing participants and post it.  We can set a deadline for entry at October 1st, then the deadline for shipping will be March 31st. 

Does the deadlines sound acceptable?
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: nativenoobowyer86 on September 13, 2012, 11:22:28 am
count me in too :) I havent pumped out a red oak board bow in ages, it would be a good time im sure :)
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: ojibwatbowyer on September 13, 2012, 11:44:55 am
That timeline works for me, shouldnt be to hard to find some decent oak. Heck I may even send the hickory just to do it  ;D
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: fishfinder401 on September 13, 2012, 12:08:23 pm
ok, with the deadline as march 312, im in
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: johnston on September 13, 2012, 02:25:27 pm
I'm in and......fellas I have a source of free red oak from a local cabinet
shop. I usually make them take lunch money for my haul.They scrap
the wood anyway. Usually 2 1/4 " by a bit over 8 ft but sometimes 10 ft.

If you really need a piece ( somehow that sounds bad) pm me and all it'll
cost you is shipping. Assuming of course my deal with them still stands.
I ain't needed a piece in a while( somehow that sounds good).

Lane
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: driftingrz on September 13, 2012, 08:34:39 pm
Go ahead and put me on the list.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: lostarrow on September 13, 2012, 10:01:48 pm
Count me in!
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: foolishman on September 14, 2012, 04:32:32 pm
Sounds like fun.  I'm in.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: ionicmuffin on September 14, 2012, 05:20:37 pm
alright, im in!
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: SA on September 15, 2012, 06:03:30 pm
i'm good w/march 31st as a deadline also.
autologus , should we go ahead and send you our info ?
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: autologus on September 15, 2012, 06:17:27 pm
Sure I will get a list together.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: SA on September 15, 2012, 06:55:20 pm
ok, also if you would like any help w/it  i have a little free time to help out.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: WoodBenderDW on September 15, 2012, 08:09:58 pm
I'm in too.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: NruJaC on September 15, 2012, 08:53:26 pm
Sounds like fun, I'm in.

Have we decided on a set of rules? Can I back mine with maple for example? Or are we "banning" wood backings?
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: autologus on September 15, 2012, 09:09:19 pm
They can be backed but not with wood.  Let's try to keep it Red Oak.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: lostarrow on November 05, 2012, 02:19:52 pm
Crazy Dave (WoodbenderDW) was in my shop on Sunday R/O and heat treating a red oak board  for the trade. Looking good!Should make someone a happy camper.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: Onebowonder on November 05, 2012, 02:25:48 pm
Worked a bit on my first effort at the handle/riser piece.  This stuff does shape easily, ...but it's easy to go too far real fast.  :-\

OneBow
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: lostarrow on November 13, 2012, 09:51:03 pm
Tillered and ready to shoot in. Put a little Ivory on the tips to protect from the FF string. We'll see what she does  .I have a little "Odawa" Scalloped bow but I think I'll keep that,as my guy wants 50 lbs at 28" and it's only 40#.  Rabbit hunting it is!(http://)
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: autologus on November 13, 2012, 11:14:27 pm
You can't just show one picture if that bow. We want to see more.

Grady
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: lostarrow on November 14, 2012, 10:16:59 am
It's not going for the trade but I'll post pics on it's own thread after I get back ,as well as pics of the bow that will be going . Shooting it in this week.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: lostarrow on November 16, 2012, 10:12:43 am
FF string is served and ready to shoot in today. Let's see if it's worthy of the postage! ;)
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: autologus on November 16, 2012, 11:47:37 am
Pics or it didn't happen.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: oscar3b on November 16, 2012, 04:52:20 pm
Pics or it didn't happen.

I totally agree!
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: lostarrow on November 16, 2012, 07:41:22 pm
Sorry guys ,It will have to wait a couple more days for the pics. I'm out of town . Brought the camera ,but like a dumb $%# ,I didn't bring the cord to down load. I shot about75-80 through it tonight. First time with FF string. Uhhhhhhhhhhhh,..........Wow! This bow isn't a new design for me, so I kind of knew what to expect as far as shooting characteristics. I didn't do any heating  or flip the tips on it though.I don't think I will . When I get home I think I'll  make a few more just like it but different weights, to keep around  for people to try . I got two more potential customers last week so I guess I better get some inventory on hand. For This trade would I be safe to assume that most guys would like a bow to go hunting with or do we have some Target only fellas here. Trying to decide on what sort of lipstick to put on her.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on December 31, 2012, 04:32:22 pm
Started my bow today... This took forever to find a board that would "possibly work" we shall see I guess. This is my frist board bow so hopefully it will turn out great. It is going to be a simple beautiful bow to show case the wood itself.

Are we going to put up pictures of our progress or let it be a total suprise????

Happy New Year everyone... God Bless!!

Justin
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: autologus on December 31, 2012, 04:57:51 pm
I don't know about everyone else but I like pictures.  I think if you want to post them OK, if you want to keep it a surprise OK.

Grady
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: tgtmatt on January 01, 2013, 08:44:01 pm
So I'm guessing it's too late to jump in?
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: ionicmuffin on January 01, 2013, 09:32:31 pm
i believe it is to late to join this trade, however, each year there is a bow trade that takes place, you can join that one when it comes up, until then i suggest you keep making bows so your trade bow will be quality stuff
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: chachamooby on January 02, 2013, 07:43:23 pm
Seems i Joined in a little late for this year. I'm in if you do one next Christmas though!
Hey--could you post some pictures? I love seeing different interpretations of the ole red oak stand by bows.
thanks!
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on January 06, 2013, 07:19:27 pm
Ok guys-
   So far I have the bow shaped for the most part and the recurve tips are on. I brought the bow to 1/2 inch thick and it is looking great. The fades are in as well. My question for you now is I am going to back the bow with some thin rawhide so that it will make it through the tiller part hopefully than keeping it unbacked. DO I floor tiller the bow some more and then add the backing or should I put the backing on first and then start to floor tiller the bow. My thought it to floor tiller the bow out some and then add a little reflex into the bow so that the limbs wont have so much set. I know set is going to happen because it is red oak but if I can keep it under an inch I would prefer it. I am hoping to finish the entire tiller portion of the bow by the end of the week if I add the rawhide on tomorrow I will let it set up for at least this entire week.

Thanks guys for the input... I am really liking how this is turning out so far. Spent about six hours on it today getting it to this point. I would add some pictures later because I have no idea what is up with photobucket but I can't upload them.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: lostarrow on January 07, 2013, 09:56:24 am
What kind of glue are you using?Are you done heating? If hide glue , it cures fairly quick. I tillered a cherry bow (pics soon)after  a day and half.If the glue is hard  ,not jelly , it should be good. (depending on drying conditions, and method of application) You just don't want to heat after backing. Backing can affect the tiller , so I do it first. Every one is different, just my methods.Good luck!
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: autologus on January 07, 2013, 10:16:04 am
I would get it to floor tiller, steam in the recurves and then back it.  Tiller it with the backing cured well because it will alter the tiller.  I made one recently and the rawhide I use was from a 24" rawhide dog dog bone and it was thick on one end so I cut 2 strips out of it and put the thick ends together at the handle with the thin ends at the tips and it turned out pretty well I thought.  Here is a link to the bow.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,36744.msg484338.html#msg484338 (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,36744.msg484338.html#msg484338)

Grady
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on January 08, 2013, 08:22:13 pm
Just was curious how everyone was coming along. Today I spent about four hours working on my trade bow. Brought it down from 66 inches tip to tip and now it is 62 tip to tip. I have to shape the handles and fades a touch more but it is coming along nicely. The rawhide backing looks awesome and seems as though I did it correctly. I am going to take my time on the tillering part so that i don't make this into a two piece unusable bow lol.... PB is still being a pain in the #$*% and I can not upload any photos

Anyone know of another site that we can use to upload too

Justin, New Hampshire
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: tgtmatt on January 08, 2013, 09:54:57 pm
Try tinypic.com, It's similar to PB, pretty much the same thing. Try it out.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: Matt Heppe on January 08, 2013, 10:06:54 pm
I use Picasa, Googles photo site. Works great for me. Just copy the image location and paste here.

I have my trade bow roughed out and will be steam bending the tips this weekend. This is my first attempt at bending, so have my fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on January 10, 2013, 03:43:05 pm
Hey guys...

How is everyone coming along?

Today I continued slowly getting the bow to bend and now its bending around 4/5 inches. At this point I am going to put it on the tree so the tip overlays are on.

ONE HUGE MISTAKE!!!! I forgot about the "letting the red oak shine" rule and put on bolo  tip overlays due to the fact that I make only around 12 strand strings.

Is this a NO-NO or will it still be within the rules... its still all red oak just wanted to blend a darker wood so it would contrast well with the handle wrap I have planned. If not to the grinder I go  :'(

Guys- It would be awesome if over the weekend we could get some pictures going on this thread... Lets all try and take a picture of our bows to show what stage they are in the game. I dunno about you guys but I drool over what could possibly be coming my way. Can we all try this?

Have a good day fellas..... Justin
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: autologus on January 10, 2013, 03:58:48 pm
No problem at all the only thing is make it from a red oak board with no other type of wood backing.  It can be backed with sinew, rawhide, silk, linen, paper ect...  Different wood for tip overlays, handles are ok.

Grady
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: bowhntineverythingnh03743 on January 10, 2013, 05:48:34 pm
FEWWW!!! I am glad I don't have to ruin the tips I just put on... Looking forward to seeing this thing all the way though.

Here's another question for you bow board guru's.... On average what is the thickness for a 45-55# bow? I know that this depends on the board itself but is there a guide line of such?

Justin
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: lostarrow on January 11, 2013, 12:44:54 am
All depends on the width and design. As for pics............ I got one finished up before Christmas but decided not to send it. Not up to snuff. Now I have to try to catch up after being off with the flu for almost a month. Should be starting in a week or two.Might try something totally different.
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: Onebowonder on January 25, 2013, 04:08:45 pm
I cut out new lams this weekend and re-started this project.  I spent some time re-designing the riser shape as well.  I've got the lams pre-bending prior to glue-up, which I should get to this weekend.  It's a good thing I still have some time left on this one... ::)

OneBow
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: autologus on January 25, 2013, 04:14:46 pm
Mine is ready to go on the tree, maybe I will have some time to work on it this weekend.

Grady
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: Onebowonder on January 25, 2013, 06:53:53 pm
Here is the design I came up with for the riser.  It starts from a full deminsions 2X1X11 inch Red Oak block.

(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s654/ewfors/Riser_zpsb5616559.jpg)

OneBow
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: tgtmatt on January 25, 2013, 08:04:56 pm
One bow are you going to attach the limbs to that riser?
Title: Re: Red Oak Board Bow Trade
Post by: Onebowonder on January 25, 2013, 08:15:43 pm
That's the plan...

The back lams glue up to the notched side with the 3" opening.  The belly lams glue to the angled side with the 4" opening.  It should give me about 3.5 inches (or better) of reflex in the limbs.

I realize it's a bit experiemental, but I'm doing two of them at once.  If one blows up, I'll still have the other for the trade.  Also, I've a more traditional Red Oak Board pyramid bow in the works too, just in case it all goes to heck! ;D

OneBow