Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: tanner on September 03, 2012, 01:48:40 pm
-
With my first bow http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,34025.0.html (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,34025.0.html) currently stranded in the "learning experience-only" category, I am moving full-speed (figuratively) ahead on my second bow made from red mulberry.
I got the wood from a storm casualty out of my yard and posted about it (including pics) here:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,34141.0.html (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,34141.0.html)
I decided to start on the 55'' log first and save the 70'' piece for another day when I've learned more to help me be successful and not waste the wood. I decided to split the 55'' piece much the same way that I did the black walnut, but found that mulberry (probably like osage) is a NIGHTMARE to split with an axe and wedge when it's not dry. I finally got two quarters of it split out and have decided rather than make a shorty (54'') to splice the billets together using Roger's thread in the how-to section:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,983.msg9425.html#msg9425 (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,983.msg9425.html#msg9425)
I just got the templates drawn out and plan to cut this afternoon. Here're some pics of my progress. Right now the billets are 40'' and 41''. They were both 55'' but I cut the ends off them as they had a nasty twisted-section that I wanted to avoid. 80'' (76'' after a 4'' splice) should give me plenty of space. End-state I'm looking for an efficient, smooth-shooting hunting bow. I'm hoping for something in the 55#-60# range at a 29'' draw. Length-wise I'll probably shoot for 70''-72'', but we'll see how I feel after getting the billet splice complete. Here're some progress pics:
Debarked:
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20120824_203611.jpg)
Here's a view of the nasty curve on the end. Both billets had the same twist (sisters from the same log).
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20120824_203640.jpg)
Finally - here's where I'm at with the billets (2'' wide, 40'' long, 1'' thick at the handle and 3/4'' thick at the tips):
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20120903_085729.jpg)
-
looks like you will have a hunting weight bow out of those billets! Good luck and have fun! oh and post more pics as you progress so we can see how your doing!
-
You should have plenty of wood to work with--at least in width. Be sure to have your splice and tips aligned straight be starting. Good luck
-
Looking good on your progress so far. Wondering if you have or plan to remove the sapwood? I've only done a few of red mulberry and I
removed the sapwood on those but I don't have much experience with it. I've read that mulberry can work as a bow with or without the sapwood. Just curious. Keep us posted on your progress tanner.
Greg
-
@ionicmuffin - thanks man! I'm having a TON of fun so far and haven't even gotten a bow yet. :) I'll keep posting - I regret starting the post so late on the last one after I'd already made some mistakes.
@Hrothgar - good call - I was planning to use a chalk line from center tip to center handle to get a feel for how they need to be aligned before cutting. Let me know if there's a better method you use.
@Badly Bent - Thanks much! I apologize that I neglected to mention that part. I have already removed all sapwood. These two billets also represent my first and second tries at ring-chasing. I have a single summer wood ring exposed on the back of both.
-
Ok - a little progress and a question. Here are some pics of my splicing templates on the ends of the billets. You'll notice a chalk line (hopefully they're visible) connecting the center mass of handle with center of the tip on each piece. The grain is very straight in terms of following the crown of each limb.
First pic - a little bit of twist, but for the most part a pretty happy limb:
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20120903_133949.jpg)
Second pic - this one has some side-to-side bend in it which makes the string align a little funny:
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20120903_133851.jpg)
Here's my question - is it better to go ahead and splice the limbs so that the edges (and the grain) runs straight from tip to tip which would require some heat (steam) bending to take out the side-to-side. OR splice the limbs so that the string lay as-is bisects the handle so I don't have to mess with bending out the side-to-side?
-
I've cut splices to correct a little string alignment and it worked fine. If the needed correction is too severe I'd look for a billet with a complimentary bend that will help the string lay in the handle better.
Good luck.
George
-
Now that I'm into the routine of hunting season I've started this back up again. Rather than forcing the issue with what looked like some questionably-matched billets string-alignment-wise, I decided to cut up the other half of my 55'' mulberry log and make some more billets (thanks for the advice George!). I tried something a little bit different this time since I ruined an axe and almost threw my back out trying to split the last piece with wedges (wet mulberry is NASTY to split). This time I decided to try and use my chainsaw to quarter and it worked pretty well. I'm not sure I've seen anyone else on here talk about this - maybe for safety reasons? To be honest, I just took my time and never felt like it as at all unsafe (not any more so than any other time I've used a chainsaw). Anyway, it worked out well and the quarters turned out MUCH cleaner than when I split them last time.
I started working on the better-looking of the two quarters and got the back established a few days ago. The rings on this one are pretty big which is NICE for getting practice ring-chasing. I got the rest mostly reduced today. It takes me quite a bit of time since I just use hatchet and files. I'll probably be ready to splice this week sometime. That leads my to a question. I am wondering if there is any reason I SHOULDN'T use Gorilla Glue for my splice? I know a lot of folks in this forum love their TB3, but if I can use what I already have I would rather.
-
First, Gorilla glue has no place in bow building, your splice will fail if you use it, lousy stuff, I know from experience. Second, lay out at least a Z splice, or a fishtail if you are pretty good at cutting wood, what you have now doesn't have enough surface area in my opinion.
-
I'm glad I could help. I also agree with Erik in both cases. I use a Z-splice because it's easy to lay out on a center line. Unless you are very skilled in your wood cutting and fitting, you need a gap filling glue. Urac and Smooth-on epoxy are the old stand-bys, but the epoxy is expensive and Urac is hard to find. Others need to give you more options if you can't do either of those as I've only used smooth-on. Good luck.
George
-
Sweet - glad I asked. Thanks guys! I'll locate some more-worthy glue this week. Oh - and on the splice. I realized that I had it borked after I took the pics. I was trying to make the splice template thingamajigs from Roger's thread and.... looked at it wrong I guess. No harm - no foul. I'll fix them before I cut.
-
For those playing along at home - I did find a good thread from earlier this year about glue for splicing:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,31228.msg413996.html#msg413996 (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,31228.msg413996.html#msg413996)
It looks like recorcinol (DAP Weldwood) is what I'll go for. It also looks pretty cheap:
http://www.amazon.com/00203-Weldwood-Plastic-Resin-1-Pound/dp/B001003J16/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350259758&sr=8-1&keywords=resorcinol+glue (http://www.amazon.com/00203-Weldwood-Plastic-Resin-1-Pound/dp/B001003J16/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350259758&sr=8-1&keywords=resorcinol+glue)
-
Great work, love to see the research you did to find your answers. Here's a picture of the z-splice
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5103/5575576619_b81c6b8309.jpg)
Good luck with that bow.
Where in Iowa? I grew up almost centered between Mason City and Waterloo, went to school in Dumont.
George
-
Glad you posted this Tanner. Looking good so far.
I've only spliced a couple billets and used the Z splice like George posted.
One question. A set of my billets line up off center similar to what Tanner has shown in his second pic. Wouldn't it be better to try to square the cut on the handle area to the chalk line?
That looks like too nice a sister billet to set aside.
-
Thanks George - I've been trying to search for my questions before asking but some searches are harder to find than others. I actually had to google the glue question to get some opinions on different glues and when/why to use them. Here's the one that gave me a good run-down and the right words to search for:
http://www.bowyersedge.com/glue.html (http://www.bowyersedge.com/glue.html)
I'd seen quite a bit of other glues mentioned on this forum (including gorilla) but only in the context of repairs and arrow making. Also, thanks for the z-slice pic. I was originally planning to use the splice from Roger's thread on the howto forum, but I think I see the z as slightly cleaner. This is also the last push for me to go ahead and get The Traditional Bowyer's Bible. I was trying to keep the spend for this hobby at a minimum but I think this will save me in the long run.
I'm originally from southern Iowa near a little town called Bloomfield. Good bow wood country btw. I now live near Iowa City and work at UofI.
-
PS - here's a side-by-side pic of one of my earlier billets with the one I just finished up yesterday (new one is in the vice):
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20121014_131625.jpg)
You'll notice the big knot. I did a pretty good job of working around it with my draw knife, but I'm pretty hopeful that I'll be able to trim it out. It's still plenty wide (2 1/2'') and the grain on the left-side of the knot evens out pretty well. I'll also clean up the back some more, but the ring I chased has some good thickness to it so I've got breathing room there for sure. Here's a closer pic of the knot:
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20121014_131554.jpg)
-
Finally a little bit of progress.... I picked up some proper glue (Resorcinol), a pull saw and TBB1. After reading and re-reading the splicing chapter (and some other things), I attempted my first try at splicing billets with a Z-splice (not the w-splice I was trying previously. Being a no0b at the nice sharp hand saw I cut myself a little bit (sharp saws gouge a hand QUICKLY) and also made some slightly messy joints. Another thing that assisted with the messy joints was that I missed the part in TBB1 where he talks about making adjustments to the outside edges only. They would have been a lot cleaner if I would have taken a second to step back, look and understand that statement. Anyway - they're cut. I'll probably have to so some filling with wood when I glue (not sure if there's a BEST way to do that). I'm also thinking that I'll probably try the suggestion from the book of soaking the ends for 10 min, sticking them together and clamping to see if I can't get some better contact. I'm interested in any suggestions of course. Here's a pic:
(http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p548/tannerwade/20121029_214925.jpg)
The joint looks kind of funny at the moment - I cut the handle 1 1/4'' wide, but the pieces I cut off the outside are placed back on for use with the clamps. That's why you're probably looking at it and thinking "what in the !@#"... There may be other reasons, but thought I would get that one outta the way.
Right now it looks like the bow will be around 69'' long. There is some reflex in it because of the way the billets went together so hopefully I'll be able to keep some of it. My only other concern is that the handle might not be deep enough. It's currently about 1 1/3'' deep. TBB1's osage was somewhat deeper (1 1/2''?, 1 7/8''?). I don't think it's thin enough to bend, but I hope it doesn't cause other structural issues. I know I can always glue on something to extend the depth under whatever handle wrap I end up using.
-
Glad you steered away from Gorilla Glue. Personally, I think actual gorilla snot would have greater strength than the glue. Maybe gorilla whiz would have magical properties and make a stronger bow? (an homage to mullet)
Gstoneberg finally made it clear to me just why the Z splice is so much superior to the W. Excellent way to get the centerlines or tips to line up! I gotta remember that when I get to those wonderful ERC billets I got from BeetleBailey!
Keep posting, son! I'm a-learnin' stuff!
-
One other trick, soak just the splice area in water (by standing them in a bucket with that much water in it) for an hour or so, then clamp them together and let them dry. The wood will swell and the joint will be tighter. By the way, the splice you cut is the w-splice, not the z-splice. It should work fine.
George
-
Thanks George - I did the water soak thing last night but only let them soak for 10min or so like TBB1 says. It didn't really do much. I'll try again tonight and let it soak longer. Also - it only looks like a W splice in the picture 'cause I put the two outside pieces that I'd cut off back on for the clamps (and the joint is messy). I promise - it's a W. I'll post another picture once I get a chance to clean up the joint and glue it.