Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: mullet on August 23, 2012, 09:08:22 pm
-
I've got to vent! Really, before I say something to an Elementary school Principal and make it worse on my Grandson.
He's 9 and was called into the office this morning because the Principle said parents were calling and saying they were afraid of him. Here's why, He made a collage with pictures of what he did this Summer and his had pistols, long guns, bows and arrows and hunting.
the Principle asked him why and he explained about his first hunting trip and two archery tournaments he had gone to along with working with his Dad and wanting to be a gunsmith when he gets older.
Now, here's what really pissed me off; When he tried to explain about shooting his first pig with his Grandfather with my AR-15 (assault rifle) ::)and told him that going on his first hunting trip with me was not unlike boys going hunting with their Dad for the first time.
This Principle told him young boys hunting with their Dads was not common and he was worried about him having a knife collection and talking about guns. And then began to question him about the recent shootings in the Theatre and the Trevon Martin shooting down here. It didn't help when my grandson told him he new about the Trevon case and the picture the media was showing was when he was 14 and not the 17 year old Where he was tatted up and looked like a thug.
This kid has been Honor Roll and never missed a day of school and now we're worried this jerk is going to put something in his records like he's the next Columbine kid. Can you understand why I'm pissed.?
-
You can't say or do anything in this country anymore! Common sense has been replaced with fear mongering. A few bad apples ruined it for all. But is OK when they do it in violent video games!
-
that sucks Eddie.i remember having a pocket knife on me in grade school.now a days that would get you sent to reform school.if more kids were allowed to do these things,it might keep them out of trouble.i hope all goes well for you and your grandson.
-
That would tick me off to,we use to bring our guns and bows to school and go hunting after class!Things change,sometimes not for the better-Hammertime
-
Mullet, being a grandfather myself, I know how you feel. As far as parents being afraid . . . There is a HUGE difference between an avid outdoor spoortsman and the monsters at Columbine, and the terorist in Colorado! Had they taken the time to inquire, they'd have figured that out! Boys hunting with their fathers and grandfathers is NOT uncommon. I moved to the south over two years ago and NOT hunting with parents or grandparents IS uncommon. You are right to be P'Od. Please continue to use your grandparental influence, and keep an eye on the situation. Please keep us posted. As our rights seem to be eroding, we as outdoor sportsmen need to cowboy up and support one another. If we don't . . . then who will? Here's hoping everything works out for your grandson!
-
Uh, Eddie it ain't that far from my house to yours. If you need backup...
Lane
-
Wow, unbelievable! I would give that principal a piece of my mind if it was me in that situation. Parents are so overprotective and worried nowadays, I think kids would be better off hunting and fishing than playing video games all day.
-
The saddest part for me is It doesn't surprise me.
-
I hate to hear that Eddie. Sounds like your grandson has a good head on his shoulders. I'm hoping something like that doesn't happen in my kids school. My oldest, 8, had to write a report about his favorite place. He wrote about his Papa's knapping pit. Think your thoughts thru and keep your head when talking w/ folks like that principal. Teaching gun safety @ a young age is the best thing we can do for our kids. Find the studies done about kids who grew up w/ guns and the ones who didn't when they were put in a room w/ a gun. The kids who grew up w/ guns paid no mind to the weapon, the kids w/o gun knowledge couldn't keep their hand off the weapon. In states like North and South Dakota, hunting is a family value, everyone does it, even Mom's, sister's and grandmothers. That's how it is w/ my family from ND anyway. Good luck w/ this Buddy. dpgratz
-
Thats what happens when college eggheads that have never been in the outdoors in there life get jobs like this.I bet he is from the city somewhere.Its sad how some people are trying to change our way of life by using our children.I think you and his Dad should have a come to Jesus meeting with this jerk.
-
You need to send the attorney down to visit this school. They need to have the lines drawn for them about what is appropriate.
-
That is sad Eddie. Hopefully your grandson doesn't face any discipline action over this. The best thing to do is keep your cool with the principal. Getting upset and yelling will do nothing but add to his ignorant beliefs. I think that if more Dads took their children hunting and instilled proper gun handling and respect for wildlife the world would be a safer place. I bet that crazy guy that killed the people in the theatre never had a father that took him hunting.
Schools sure have changed since I graduated in 98. I had teachers that would bring pictures of deer they killed in to show the class. That would probably get a teacher in trouble today. I carried a Buck Goliath pocket knife every day to school from 10th grade on. It's about 12" long when opened. I had teachers borrow it and never say a thing to me about it.
-
Eddie,
I know where you're coming from. Strange world we live in today.
Majority of the colleges that further our children's education are downright liberal.
Hopefully by the time our children spread their wings and depart we have already instilled the basic traits of character and morality to help them survive.
The teacher was probably momma coddled and never experienced the finer things in life. It's the world we live in. You can't really blame the teacher but you should do your best to teach him or her something that daddy and momma seemed to have neglected. (forgot, didn't know, didn't understand)
-
Fred, I've been downright liberal all my life and was tought character and morality and still practice both today. The problem is ignorance and it is a shame that that is how our society is run today.
Eddie, it saddens me every time I hear a story like this. Legal action against the school and principal might be your best option. For a person in power like this principal to belittle a student for his or her beliefs and tradition is criminal in my opinion.
-
The sad part is we all live in our own little world,sadly most of the world don't think the way we do, and we have let it happen. I see it every day here at work.I am the exception not the rule. I agree with Pat[except for the liberal part] ;) ;D ;D
Pappy
-
Heck Eddy, send him up here where I teach. He will be able to join the schools' endorsed archery teams from elementary, middle and high school. We have a lot of national archery champs at all age levels.
I couldn't work for the guy with my hobbies and beliefs if he's less than understanding about your grandson's culture! ;)
Tracy
-
It's the same all over the place Eddie. Paranoia, ignorance and political correctness have taken over from common sense.Up here we have always been more conservative regarding guns and admittedly we do not have quite as big a problem with gun violence as our Southern neihbors.But it's not just with guns that society is going nuts. My 6
year old neice and 2 of her grade 1 friends had their parents called in and advised of their daughters sexual misconduct at school and warned if it happened again they would be suspended and child welfgare called. Their henious sexual offense ? They chased down a boy from their class and covered his face with Kisses. Used to be a stanard lunch break hazard when I was that age, getting covered with "Girl Cooties". Apparently it is phycological abuse to scare the girls with snakes and toads and uttering threats if you tell em you are going to make them eat worms.
-
Hey Eddie I have dealt with that crap with all the way through school you should have heard the rucus when they wanted the kids to write down what they wanted to be when they grew up and my son who is a great rifleman wrote that he wanted to be a sniper he was thinking for police or military and they were thinking hiding in the woods and shooting teachers. If they were better teachers maybe they wouldn't be so afraid of they re students. I don't know about where you guys live but they're scraping the bottom of the barrel for teaching and administrative staff around here. Ron
-
I agree with Ron. If the Principal and teacher who turned it over were better at their job they would place this into a proper context.
Heck, you know I'm a teacher myself. Pat also hit it. It's ignorance, plain and simple. For them to single him out like this is definitely worth filing a proper complaint with the school board and possibly legal action. He hasn't broken any laws.
I wouldn't get into the confrontation with the individual directly. Doubt it would do any good.
I think I would consider filing a complaint with the higher power. Perhaps standing during the public testimony time at a school board meeting.
If the boy hasn't made a single outward threat to a student than they have overstepped their boundary. The man has no call to define what is "normal" for your family. It's unethical and unprofessional.
Stephen
-
We might have a meeting at 11 am today with the Principle. I want to hear his thoughts about this before I do anything since I've only heard the 10 year old version.
-
Eddie: I'm 73 years old and without trying to be out of line with these remarks I would like to say this is not the same country I grew up in! From the ration days of the 2nd world war to the landing on the moon and all the wars since we have lost it has changed. Was drafted twice and proud to serve my country. Spent several years teaching at top down levels and have seen the changes to our way of life! Our wolf and grizley problems are a good example. Guess that's why I enjoy this forum and especially the visits to the Classic as it lets me know there are still some good and grounded people left! I am just glad that I lived most of my life in the good old days! A/Ho Joe
-
im proud to say that i live in what i think is the only town in the U.S.that has an ordinance that every household shall posses a handgun.not that they enforce it.just their way of saying we are Americans.my son wore a shirt to school yesterday that said[ support the second amendment] and has various long guns on it.i asked where he got and he said mom got it with my other school clothes.i love that woman.-----my son also says he wants to be a marine sniper some day.
-
Fred, I've been downright liberal all my life and was tought character and morality and still practice both today. The problem is ignorance and it is a shame that that is how our society is run today.
Eddie, it saddens me every time I hear a story like this. Legal action against the school and principal might be your best option. For a person in power like this principal to belittle a student for his or her beliefs and tradition is criminal in my opinion.
;)
Completely agree
-
I'm not siding with the principal here but we should also look at it from his point of view. He has probably never been hunting or done anything in the outdoors and with all the violence lately he might have been a bit cautious.
-
Caution is one thing Youngbowyer, but if Paranoia and militantism are allowed to run unchecked then stuff like the Salem Witch hunts and such can flurish
-
Eddie,
First I am sorry to hear that you are having to deal with this. As a teacher I have always tried not to make my believes and views those of my students. I am there in the classroom to teach and help them become life long learners, function in "middle class" societal norms, and expose them to many many different ways of doing the same thing. Hunting, fishing, outdoors, archery and gathering are often in my lessons. Draped over my sofa are various types of tanned furs.
Under no circumstances should the principal categorize what he deems is "normal" for your grandson. Ethically and morally he has no right to impart his views and or values on that boy. None. This can and will fall under the First Amendment umbrella for your son. Student's are afforded "freedom of speech and expression" based on the standard of "a reasonable" person.
From this point forward document everything and ask that you/parents be present when the principal needs to speak to him. If his right to freedom of speech and freedom of expression is being suppressed you can file a Title IX complaint with the US Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights. You may also file a complaint with the campus against the principal. Doing so "guarantees" no retaliation because being picked out or singled out for filing a complaint is worse than the initial offense.
I will PM you my cell number and feel free to call me if need be. I am NOT an attorney, I am a teacher, but unfortunately as a students I was subjected to discrimination, retaliation and more discrimination. There was no recourse for me, but there is no reason for ANY body in this great nation to have to suffer such indignities.
Cipriano
-
Now we did it we got Eddie and Cip fired up !!
Stay cool and think it thru but don't leave them off with lame excuses !
And don't back down when you get them going your way make sure that by the time your done they have an archery program in the school! http://archeryintheschools.org/activea.asp
Now calmly go get-em !!!
Guy
-
Pat B ain't the onliest liberal in here that is bothered by this. Mind you, I think of my self as being about 3-4 microns left of center, bothered by extremists on each side, but this kind of talk is verging on politics. Actually, it's well over the line into politics. 'Pologize.
Here's hoping that the principle is a open minded without being empty headed!
If not, the kid is in for a long row to hoe in our current scholastic situation.
-
after you have your little talk with this yahoo, if you come out with a bad feeling about this guy after the meeting, get an interdistrict transfer and into a differant school, cipp's method seems like a last resort but that may be what need's to happen, the problem is these educators spend alot of time with these kid's and have a habit of teaching their opinion's as fact, they have alot of influance with our kids, good luck with this eddie, Bub
-
That would probably get a teacher in trouble today
Clint, I have students text their harvest pics and we put it up on the big screen through the computer for all to see while administrators congratulate the boy/girl. Heck, I have shared PA with them during non instructional time and they love it! Students need to feel they are valued for who they are!
I'm sure the guy is concerned for the safety of all the students, but common sense and a little communication will go a long way. Good luck with resolving the issue Eddie.
Tracy
-
This stuff makes the debate over certain weapons being used seem frivoluos. No matter what you hunt with it all goes bye-bye if dipshittz like this have any say.
-
tracy we have quite a few teachers like you here, but they are out numbered, Bub
-
In elementary school kids were sent to the principal for pointing their fingers at each other and saying "bang"
The teachers called in my parents(who both work) when I was in preschool because I drew a turkey with an arrow in it and a deer with crosshairs over it's heart, when they asked how I could draw such things I said" with crayons" hunting season was coming up and I was pumped up... But teachers tried to discourage me at every turn
-
Will not belabor any of the already well expressed opinions and have to agree with
JW we are really close to the line here on political discourse.
However I truly feel that if something major doesn't happen to refocus our country,
if it even exists, anarchy will be inevitable. Major companies run the world not
governments, sad but true. But for people like us, not only armed but willing," freedoms ,"
rights as we know them,will be as gone as our heritage of hunter gatherers. When children are
vilified over personal choices that the controllers dislike , we are in trouble. Or maybe THEY are.
Lane
-
In elementary school kids were sent to the principal for pointing their fingers at each other and saying "bang"
The teachers called in my parents(who both work) when I was in preschool because I drew a turkey with an arrow in it and a deer with crosshairs over it's heart, when they asked how I could draw such things I said" with crayons" hunting season was coming up and I was pumped up... But teachers tried to discourage me at every turn
lol that's too funny. I never had problems like that in elementary school. My teachers thought my bows and arrows were cool and they let me bring in an arrow that had a field point on it with no problems.
-
Will not belabor any of the already well expressed opinions and have to agree with
JW we are really close to the line here on political discourse.
However I truly feel that if something major doesn't happen to refocus our country,
if it even exists, anarchy will be inevitable. Major companies run the world not
governments, sad but true. But for people like us, not only armed but willing," freedoms ,"
rights as we know them,will be as gone as our heritage of hunter gatherers. When children are
vilified over personal choices that the controllers dislike , we are in trouble. Or maybe THEY are.
Lane your on point Lane, Bub
-
The meeting got resceduled to Monday morning. This school isn't a country school but in town, and a different mindset then the suburban schools. I'm hoping he meant families hunting together was not common in this school. My grandson said he didn't make a really big deal out of it, and we wouldn't have known about it if my Grandson hadn't of said anything.
So I'm giving him the benifit of doubt to start with, especially since my best friend told me yesterday that the guy is a distance cousin of his.
And this wasn't started to get into political debates, we can all work on that in November. I was just venting. I can't stand someone in authority making a stupid statement like it was a fact.
-
In our current P.C. culture I thought that there were stiff criminal penalties for using the word "normal"!
I say we tie this guy to a chair and make him watch some of Billy Berger's videos! I'd rather be a Billy Berger than a "normal"...whatever normal is.
-
I understand fully why you are upset........that kind of reaction and conversation from the principal is absurd. But in this day and age there is zero tolerance for anything. I do not know what we are going to do. I have two boys, six and three. I worry very deeply about the future.
-
The heck with them...tell them practice makes perfect.....if they are going to think that anyway.
-
Ask him if he supports the concept of academic freedom as foundation for building lifelong learners or does he prefer the sublimation and condemnation of views foreign to his current and popular dogma as a compass for his educational institution
-
Ask him if he supports the concept of academic freedom as foundation for building lifelong learners or does he prefer the sublimation and condemnation of views foreign to his current and popular dogma as a compass for his educational institution
What he said to times 10 to the hundred power times infinity. 8)
Cipriano
-
Don't get me started....
-
Hmmmm... I think this might be explained by a simple picture... ;D
-
Mullet,
That is frustrating. I hunted WITH some of my teachers in Jr. High and High School. We hauled pelts into school for one teacher who was making a fur jacket.
I don't know what kind of access you have to this educator but maybe a handshake, a smile, and some discussion over coffee about the positive aspects of what you do with your grandson. Maybe some enlightening information about the damage that hogs do, or the historical significance of archery, about the craftsmanship that you are demonstrating to your grandson, about the benefits of teaching a grandson to be manly.
It may not help, but flies come to sugar rather than vinegar.
And do what Cip said as you proceed.
Cheerio!
-
Teachers are one facet, Administration is another. I talk to a lot of teacher's that think the "rules" are crap, but their job is on the line. Don't forget it was some whiney parent that brought these rules to the forefront. Having a kid is one thing......I sure as hell would not want to be doing these days with all the rediculious rules.... :-\
-
I'm with Justin. Maybe your attorny should talk a little sense into him. He seems to have overstepped his bounds and decided that he knows what's best for the child, and that is wrong! Policy driven by extremely over-reactive parents is getting to be the norm and that is wrong too. Any parent who bases their decisions on second hand information from their kid is just stupid. Did anyone think to ask what the pictures were about before raising a big stink? The school has absolutely NO authority to tell your child that his lifestyle is wrong, when there is no wrong doing taking place. Heck, I can remember during all 3 years of high school on "student day", I was one of the guys getting on the bus with my shotgun and heading to the trap and skeet club for a day of shooting! Student day was a day when the teacher showcased their hobbies and the students got to decide what "class" they went to during the day. Everything from hot air ballooning, to skydiving demos, to model trains and R/C cars and planes, to arts and crafts, archery, cooking, etc. I don't even think they have student day anymore. What a shame.
-
Just wanted to add that this is as stupid as the school board who wants the deaf boy to sign his name, which is Hunter, differently because it violates the school weapons policy. Really??? He's signing his name with the ASL sign for hunter! What's he going to do, shoot someone with his fingers? Is he threatening anyone in any way? C'mon people! That school board doesn't deserve to have that bright young boy attend their school.
-
Just wanted to add that this is as stupid as the school board who wants the deaf boy to sign his name, which is Hunter, differently because it violates the school weapons policy. Really??? He's signing his name with the ASL sign for hunter! What's he going to do, shoot someone with his fingers? Is he threatening anyone in any way? C'mon people! That school board doesn't deserve to have that bright young boy attend their school.
;D ;D
Ok, I work at a deaf school and am fluent in sign. This gave me a great laugh! Thanks Tom.
Scott
-
Anxious,to see how this plays out.Its a different day and not for the better either.No wonder,more people are opting for Home school these days.
Couple years ago,my daughter was singled out and picked on,because she told the class,that her dad hunted and we ate wild game and she liked it.Mostly it was the teacher,who was spouting PETA Propoganda to the students.Had a meeting with the Vice principle,who is also a hunter and that teacher,"Transfered".
-
The wife just called me and said the meeting went really well. The Priciple didn't have a problem with hunting or shooting guns. He wants to talk to me about making bows. And the parent turned out to be one of the Columbine survivors, and he wasn't trying to make a big deal out of it.
The problem seems to be with the Grandson, ::). It seems he has be going out of the way to be cool and trying to shock people. He told the other kids he had blown the hogs head off, I packed a pistol all the time along with his Grandmother being a gun toting Momma, and the house was full of ammunition and guns. He basicly made the whole family sound like a Mini-Militia. And then there were the descriptions of the Video games he has been playing, too.
Well, there's going to be a little sitdown talk this afternoon and he is going to be the Star. And I think his video game playing and internet access is going to be greatly modified.
I'm glad I waited to get another version besides the 10 year old one.
-
Never know it to look at you Eddie, but you're a pretty smart guy. Ain't your first goat roping either is it?
Lane
-
The grandson will not think this is such a wonderful "teachable moment", but it's probably going to have a good effect on him. Better now than when he's 16 and nobody knows anything but him anymore!!!
-
Thanks, Lane, was that a vote of confidence? ??? ;)
John, you're right. I'm glad it happened now, I've been complaining about some of the video games he's been playing for awhile, and now his Mom and Dad are on top of it. I guess he won't be getting all of those video games he wanted for his Birthday Sunday. He's watching Nickelodeon right now. ;D
-
Maybe some of those western/rodeo dudes will chime in ( Texas would not exist but for South Carolina and Mexico ) but the
goat roping thing was just a tease ,ok ? Put down the gun.....easy now.
But yes , you handled the whole thing very well. My compliments.
Lane
-
there ya go! that fella is going to get to see some wood bows. They fascinate a lot of people. So Granny doesn't tote a gun :(
-
THEY'ED BETTER NOT TALK TO MY YOUNGEST SON (12) THEN OR SEE HIS KNIFE COLLECTION. BELEIVE IT OR NOT WHEN HE TALKS RIFLES OR PISTOLS HE SPOT ON 98% OF THE TIME. He even has a trade point I made around his neck. He got taken to the office when his teacher took his combat knife mag. and sniper mags he had showing his friends. HE SAID DAD i DID GO A LITTLE OFF. We have the right to look at what we want. I SAID YOUR RIGHT. Sometimes you have to go off to prove your point.
MULLET
I under stand where your comeing from. I let it roll off my back and just explain things to my son. My old lady wanted to go down to the school and show them a real gun. She got pissed I had to put my pistols out in my bow shop. She gets a little out there sometimes MOST OF THE TIME.
AND SHE'S NOT A BAD SHOT
-
Out of curiosity, what are the games he's playing? As a parent, a hunter, and a gamer I tend to have a pretty ballanced opinion of these things and can say with conviction that some of the popular ones out now will not be touched by my children until I know they're old enough to deal with it. My opinion tends to be unique, but I think it's silly to allow a 9 year old to play a gamw you don't understand...especially when the major producers are are targeting late teens and early twenties.
-
I noticed three of them that I didn't approve of are Assasin's Creed, Border Lands, and Grand Theft Auto IV. The thing is he is very smart for a 10 year old, does understand the games and is in Advanced Classes in school.
Kpete: Grannie does tote a small .380 ;), and not a bad shot with my .45.
-
I noticed three of them that I didn't approve of are Assasin's Creed, Border Lands, and Grand Theft Auto IV. The thing is he is very smart for a 10 year old, does understand the games and is in Advanced Classes in school.
10 years old is, in all honesty, usually more than old enough to understand the games...however, it's not old enough to react properly in some situations. Like blowing the facts out of proportion for the sake of impressing friends. In most circumstances I wouldn't consider the two related, though.
I wouldn't allow GTA, though. I'm generally okay with violence in general, but GTA goes way overboard with a number of other things. It's an adult game.
-
I liked shoot 'em up games when I was his age, too. We didn't have video games so we substituted with BB gun wars in the orange groves. ;D I never liked the whole concept of GTA, kinda glorifying being a thief and thug.
-
It's not the game play that bugs me...it's the story. When I was 10 I was playing Spear of Destiny and Wolenstein and Doom, plus a slew of fighting games. Plenty of violence and there was some gruesomeness in Doom to be sure, but there was virtually no story. You shoot the bad guys and that's it. You don't stop and pick up a hooker or bring yourself up to ethics and morals. The complexity is something that an adult can sort out and cope with, but sometimes it can just confuse a child.
Character development is the issue, in my opinion. I think that, in some cases, the extensive character development so popular these days encourages children to relate to the character...and that causes problems.
-
Eddie
glad you got this thing on the right track!
A good sit down talking to would do us all some good from time to time !
Man if I only had all this PA advise when I was raising youngens !
Who would have thought we could get such good help on a primitive archery forum ?!!
I would still introduce them to the archery in the schools program !
Get some more kids away from the TV and into archery !!
Guy