Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Stefan on July 14, 2012, 12:55:33 pm
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Hi all,
Recently someone asked a question about spokeshave chatter/bounces. The spokeshave is the tool I use the most by far. I too experience chatter when using my stanley 151. I am thinking about buying a veritas flat base spokeshave (see photo) or a (thicker) hock blade for my stanley.
Does anyone use the veritas spokeshave or a stanley with a hock blade? My blades are sharp but I still cant make the spokeshave work flawless..
greetings,
Stefan
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I think a spoke shave is more prone to chatter the further out the blade is set. Adjust it to a finer cut and it might improve. I was taught to sharpen the blade so it has a slightly curves profile which help stop the corners digging in. of course it needs to be very sharp as well. I've never had much luck with a spoke shave and curly whirly grain woods though. A spoke shave will cut OK down slope of the grain but not very well up-slope into the grain. A change of cutting direction can sometimes do the trick in difficult patches. Blade itself should be firmly held within the tool to stop the blade itself chattering or vibrating within the tool rather than the whole tool tending to rock about the blade.
Hope this helps.
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I use a cheapo spokeshave (Silverline from Toolstation) and it's no real prob, I do get some chatter now and again, but just change the angle of attack, take a finer cut or press down a bit harder. I actually snapped off the handle of my last one, by leaning on it a bit hard* :o, but at least I have a spare blade now ;D.
I think it's just a matter of finding what works for you, no prob with using it at an angle to get a more slicing action.
Del
It had a lifetime garantee, but would have cost more in postage to send it back than it cost to get a new one!
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Polish the foot so it's mirror like....then sharpen your blade like Mark said until you can shave with it. Sharp and very sharp are two different things.
Spokeshaves have limitations just like every tool, learning them and not trying to push through is useful!
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I use a spokeshave pretty much dailey. I find a big part of using a spokeshave is getting a feel for it and building very slight facets on the limb to work with. Once you get the feel for it you will find yourself rotating the anle without even thinking about it. You will find different woods tolerate different depth adjustments. I usuall start right on the corner and gradually rotate the shaver around the limb until wood is comming off smoothly. Sharper the better but I just dress mine quickly on a stone when it needs it. I would suggest using practice wood at first and it won't take long to get a feel for it.
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As a side question, who pulls and who pushes?
I pull.
Del
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Del, I pull but I watch Tim Baker with his and he does just as well pushing as pulling. He uses it with one hand and hold the wood with the other, so adjusting to using them in a lot of different ways is possible.
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Stefan, I don't own a spokeshave myself. I sometimes think I need to buy one, but then again, I already have enough tools. I think such a Veritas spokeshave would be rather expensive - especially in our country. What is it; like 80 or 100 euros? I actually don't think a Veritas one would be much better than a cheap Stanley for 30 euros. I think you'd better save that money for another tool. I've used the spokeshave on a few occasions at a friends house; I do like the tool for several specific tasks, but you can easily build bows without one. A heavy duty rasp, SurForm or sharp drawknife can do most of the tasks the spokeshave can do as well.
Adjust the Stanley; shatter has more to do with the settings, handling and sharpness of the blade, than it has to do with the brand Stanley. A well adjusted spokeshave might take some time to achieve, but I think it will be well worth the effort. It might make you realize you don't need that Veritas at all. Some excellent tips for adjusting the spokeshave have already been supplied. You can also Google it: there's quite some info to be found on the web on how to tune a spokeshave: http://www.timberframe-tools.com/tools/tuning-up-a-cheap-spokeshave/
Another tip that has not yet been mentioned to avoid shatter is this one. Keep the pressure on the cutting edge; not on the back of the sole of the plane. It takes some practice to get the feel for it, but apply pressure towards the front of the sole, not on the rear end. Just practice a bit; see what the tool does if you apply pressure on the frontside or on the rear side.
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Hey Dark Soul... that's a great link!
Cheers
Del
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Thanks all for the replies.
I always pull a spokeshave. I will first try to tune my spokeshave. Thanks for the link Darksoul, I also found a article in fine woodworking magazine about tuning a 151 spokeshave. If anyone is interested send me a pm. The veritas spokeshave is indeed expensive in our country 80 excluding taxs, my dad is a carpenter so tax wont by problem but still it is expensive.
Greetings,
Stefan
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I have used a number of Stanley spokeshaves. When tuned up, and they ALL need it badly, they worked well. But when I got that Veritas spokeshave I realized what it was that I wanted those Stanley's to be.
I gotta tell you, Darksoul, there IS a difference. The blade I chose for my spokeshave is the A2 steel. I have worked over 18 months with this shokeshave and I have yet to sharpen it even once. I have stropped it on a leather strop with some polishing compound now and again, but it still takes hair off my knuckles when I want to! The bed to blade mate is flawless. I used machinest's spotting compound just to test it out when it arrived. Bang on, dead milled flat. The blade is more than thick enough that it cannot be warped by tightening down the adjustments.
The adjustment screws are finer threaded plus the threaded parts are seated into the tool body and have absolutely no play in them. Often my old Stanley would work loose and eventually I had to epoxy them back in their holes.
Running this spokeshave down a piece of wood is akin to driving a very well made Italian sportscar versus a run-of-the-mill economy car. They will both bring home the groceries from the store, but the performance and responsiveness is not even comparing apples and cobblestones, much less apples to oranges.
Here in the U.S. I can order Stanley #51's online and with delivery they would run about $38, for the Veritas it came to just over $100. But I didn't have to spend a couple hours trying to get the tool tuned up, sharpening a decent bevel on the blade, nor all the constant re-sharpenings, etc. It's a luxury tool in some ways, but I consider it a pretty cheap luxury when I amortize it over a lifetime of use.
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Hey JW, you got me drooling over my keyboard now ;D
Del
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I never use them a rasp works much better and quicker I think. When tillering you have to keep in to a confind spot theres no better than a rasp. I use a rasp on 90% of my bow building. I only use a draw knife untill I get it down to simi bow fourm.
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I bought a Wood River spokeshave from WoodCraft after watching a YouTube video of a guy making a boat paddle out of Hard Maple. I think he was using a Stanley, though. I have yet to use mine.
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I have one I inherited from my dad but rarely use it. In addition to using the right depth of cut also be cognizant of grain direction. It will chatter if you go against the grain. Jawge
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JW,
Sure there IS a difference between the two brands. I can imagine a well known superior brand such as Lie-Nielson or Veritas works better than a Stanley. If I had the money, I would sure like to buy a better brand, since it will last a long time.
However, taken all things into consideration, I think tuning a Stanley would be best for me, and possibly also for Stefan. The reasons why I would opt for a Stanley after all, are:
- Stefan already has a Stanley spokeshave. Why buy a second one, if you can adjust the tool you already have? No need to invest more money a second tool, at the expense of the first one never being used anymore.
- How much frustration and time do you REALLY save on the long term with a Veritas spokeshave? Sure, I like to work with a high quality tool, but is the difference really that big?
- Myself, I use many different tools for all my bows. IF I had a spokeshave, I would use it for maybe 10% of the time per bow. It will not become my most used tool, since it has a small niche within bowyery. So it would, for me, not be worth the effort and money to buy a tool I won't use daily.
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Since all I use are handtools on my bows, AND there are not that many tools necessary, I choose to purchase the very best of those tools. I have an excellent quality draw knife, spoke shave, two different high quality rasps, and several cabinet scrapers.
All told, buying all these tools would run me less than $300 TOTAL to purchase all in one gulp. In the course of a year, I will spend close to a thousand hours in the pursuit of a giant pile of shavings. I think thirty dirty pennies an hour for this hobby is pretty cheap for tools that will last a good long time.
I try to not go cheap on tools, it's a false economy in my mind. Now that second hand parachute I just bought is a great deal. NEVER OPENED! USED JUST ONCE!
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No doubt about the "Veritas" quality. Nothing gimmicky , just good tools. Definitely get your money's worth.
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Flatten the shoe, the base, the bed, and the blade prior to sharpenning. Then sharpen to shaving sharp and keep it that way.
The Hock blade, and some tuning, is an excellet way to have a tool with close to the performance of the Lie-Nielson, but for much less.
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Thanks for all the replies. I will take it in account. If I do deceide to buy the veritas spokeshave I will do a quick review of the tool
greetings
stefan
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You guys have me thinking about up grading. My Stanley seems to work fine but it's all I have ever experienced.
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I have a 151 with a Hock blade in it. Doesn't seem to work any better than the Stanley. I sharpened both blades with sandpaper I get more chatter with the hock too. one problem with mine is the blade bed has a crown. Wish i had spent my money on a Veritas.