Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Danzn Bar on June 24, 2012, 09:13:41 pm
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This was my first attempt at an unbacked static recure. The specs: 66" ntn, 51# @ 28" osage (flat belly). The rings are very thin. I first noticed a small splinter/crack after about 375 arrrows. The crack was about 3/8" long across the bottom limb and splintered about 1/2" both ways up & down the limb right in the center. At that time I did a B50 wrap soaked in superglue patch covering the splinter. Shot the bow another 25 times and the splinter continued up the limb towards the handle about 1". So I marked the crack with pencil to see if it moved. Shot the bow another 25 times and nothing happened, so I thought my patch was good. Went to a 3D shoot and the 9th target I heard a loud pop and the crack/splinter moved down the bottom limb about 5 inches.
I'm thinking of removing the B50 patch and supergluing / clamping down the splinter, backing with rawhide. My question is: Should I put the wrap back over the splinter after backing with rawhide? If so, how many places and how long of wrap over the now 6 1/2" long splinter?
I'm trying to post some pictures but I think the files are too big. I'm not much with computers. Hopefully, you guys can help me with my discription while I figure out how to post pictures.
Thanx
Any help is appreciated,
DB
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I can't tell from your question if the crack runs with the grain (length wise) or across the grain. With the grain, many times is no problem. Friend of mine has a bow he made 15 years ago, and the limb is split into form the tip, about 3/4 the length of the limb. Still shoots. As long as it does not run off the side, it may not cause a problem. Across the grain, or running off the side of the limb, bad news! Probably fatal.
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Upload a picture on http://www.tinypic.com and follow the process provided on the site.
Is the splinter on the back of the bow? And is it in the center of the limb, width wise? Or does it wander off the side? A splinter 6½" long is very long. If it's just a thin sliver, a backing might hold it in place. But if the splinter is bigger, no backing might be enough...hard to say without picture.
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I finally got some pictures. The bottom limb is to the right. As you can see the splinter is down the middle on the back of the bow. What do you guy think?? Firewood ? I sure hope not.
DB
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I've got one other picture. I'm a rooky at this stuff but I'm getting the hang of it. This is the full draw before the big POP. I put the B50 patch on the top limb just for looks. I'm really in love with this bow but I'm ready to start another. But I sure would like to fix this one. The full draw pic might show my mistake, I see a little flat spot in the bottom limb at the splinter. I'm canting the bow a little so it looks like there may be a little twist in the bottom limb too. Sure would like to hear any comments good or bad. I'm in the learning stage and can't soak up enought.
Thanks again
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Those look like checks, drying cracks. As long as they don't run off the bow they are following the grain and basically a cosmetic problem. I don't see a splinter in the pic. Is it under the wrap?
Very cool bow by the way. Great tiller! 8)
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I agree with Pat, nice bow I can see why you want to fix it. Very seldom do I bother to patch one but I think this bow is worth saving. Try running thin super glue into the crack when the bow is unbraced, or brace it put in the glue then unbrace it.
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That is a very nice bow. Great tiller and great recurves, that is a beautiful job you did! But those cracks are weird. If you heard a loud pop all of a sudden and the crack got alot bigger, even if it started as a check, it is in my opinion a problem that should be addressed. A bow that is made from a piece of wood with an already existing crack/check is one thing, but a bow that is making loud sounds and cracking down the bow is another thing. Bows can be unpredictable, and so can the way grain runs under the surface. I wouldn't chance it, especially on a such a nice bow, when there are very effective means to prevent the possibility that it might get worse or run deeper, run off the grain, etc. A thin one layer sinew backing or a thin rawhide backing (the entire bow up to the recurves) would more than likely keep your bow from breaking if that might happen due to these cracks. I would add, on top of the backing, a sinew or string wrapping in the middle of the crack to be sure. Sinew will in my opinion only improve your bows performance, on top of protecting the bow from any possible tension failure. Thats my 2 cents.
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Stunning looking bow Danzn. Hope it all works out.
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I am like everybody else. That is a heck of a bow. If it was mine I would get a bottle of Titebond III glue and size the back of it and put a strip of silk on it. I use silk all the time and is a wonderful backing. Silk will not add hardly any weight but is really tough. Dean
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Great looking bow, I too would vote for silk. Easy to apply and strong as string stuff.
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Wow............I really appreciate the feed back and compliments.
Pat B - I don't think it is a drying check, yes it is following the grain. And yes your right it is under the wrap on the back of the bow. I had time to remove the wrap and the splinter stayed down. It was hard to see. So, I sketched where the splinter lifted.
Badger - I think that might work running the glue in at brace.
toomany - I have some thin goat rawhide that I might try to back it with. I have Titebond II that I was going to use. Would that work? The stave I started with was about 36 rpi. Now I realize I should have backed it with silk, linen or rawhide from the beginning.
The last pic I'm trying to show how high of a crown (I think I'm using the correct term) the back has at the crack/splinter. I hope I'm using the correct terminology. Could this along with the thin rings be the culprit?? I thought it might have been my tillering job until all of the good tiller comments.
Again, Thanx for all of your encouragement, more comments welcome.
DB
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This doesn't have anything to do with the crack. I just thought I would post a few more pics of the bow. The darker wood in the handle is Madagascar ebony. Boy is it an oily wood. Had to size the glue joint with superglue after wiping it down with acetone then used TB II for the joint. That stuff is hard to bend too. When I heated it up to use it for the static part of the tips the oil just ooze out of the grain. So I made the static tips from walnut and the tip over lays are walnut and deer antler.
Again THANKS
DB
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I think toomanyknots is right. Weird looking cracks, great looking bow. Super glue it, rawhide back it, then sinew wrap over the rawhide around the center of the cracks. The popping sound would indicate some degree of torque at play would be my guess.
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Hope it works out,that is one beauty of a bow. I am like Steve I don't do a lot of repairs but that one is well worth the effort. Good luck. :)
Pappy
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I think you are correct that the high crown played a role in this ,but there may have been a wind shake in there that was not seen before it let loose !
I think the super glue and rawhide will take care of it !
You did some very fine work on this piece !
enjoy it
Guy
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I think I will do a repair along..............I have been looking at this site for a few years and don't remember many repair alongs. I'll be working on it this weekend and will post some pics and comments. I'm looking forward to anyone who wants to add to the discussion. At least if it doesn't work we'll know what not to do. I'm also planning to be at the IBO Trad @ Twin Oaks in July. I'm hoping to find someone that is willing to sell me some skins. If my repair holds for a few hundred shots I may want to add the skins over the rawhide , if it doesn't hold together I'll have the skins for my next bow.
Guy, The more I think about it, when I was splitting the log into staves and roughing out the bow there were some brownish red wind checks running with the grain in the stave that I thought was removed during tillering. But maybe not.
This repair along will be fun and a learning experience for me ........Hope I get more comments
Thanx
DB
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Cool,looking forward to seeing you and the bow there,yes Gary Davis will be there and he has skins. Heck you can skin it there,the shop is always open. ;) :)
Pappy
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How much crown is to much ?
That is a good ?
But if wind shakes are present the answer is just about 0
I feel confident you will win this battle and have an excellent bow to shoot for many years to come !
Guy
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SWEETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT BOW
Use weted down real sinew. Afre it drys and tightens up super glue it down. Never see a sinew patch fail.
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The first picture is after I ran the super glue in the crack at brace then unbraced and clamped with four clamps. Its hard to see the crack so I placed the arrow where the first small break accured. The crack didn't raise up much at brace so I don't know how much glue I got under the splinter or in the crack. The splinter in the area of the arrow stayed down from the first patch wrap, so I'm not sure how many rings deep it is. I hope it is only one thin ring.
The second picture is the goat rawhide I'm planning on using .......very thin stuff. I understand that this is very good for drums. It's really tough stuff.
My next step is to clean the bow completely of is finish, ruff up the back of the bow with course sandpaper, add a sizing coat of glue and titebond II down the rawhide after soaking in water and toweling off the excess water.
Comments welcome I'm not doing this until Saturday morning.
Thanks
DB
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Thanks Pappy
I'll look for you and Gary.
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Do that,I had one like that a while back,i ran a small layer of sinew over it before I put the rawhide on,it is still shooting,I think I rapped it also and then covered it all in rawhide,then skins,if you don't look at the belly you wouldn't even know it was repaired.That should work. :)
Pappy
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Well................Had plenty of time to work on the repair the weekend. Record breaking temps 105 Firday, 103 Yesterday and 102 today. I've got some Osage to split into staves but it's just too hot.
Took some pic of the bow ("Maddie"), named her due to the Madagascar Ebony in the handle. Did a wrap at the splinters and then added the rawhide. I used Ace bandages over the rawhide, the next time I need to make sure that there are no wrinkles in the rawhide, I got a few little wrinkles by the handle.
I the bow last after a few hunderd shots I would like to add skins. Does the rawhide dye easy?? what kind of dye should I use?? Or shoud I paint it before adding the skins?
Thanks
DB
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beautifull bow
i hope the repair works for ya
way too nice to be firewood
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That repair WILL work. Done a few bows that broke just like that. Just keep an eye out for chrysles and a hinge in that spot. I have noticed they can form from a break and repair like this. Your bow will survive based on repairs I have done like this. It does also help to do a wrap of thread over the break and rawhide just to make double sure it doesnt pop again.... Beautiful bow by the way...
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Just got back from the IBO at Twin oaks. Shot the bow all day and have alot of arrows through it after the rawhide repair. Got some skins from Gary Davis and I plan on working on the bow tomorrow adding the skins. Thanks to Pappy for telling me about the skins that Gary Davis has , they are really nice. I'll posts some pics after the skins are added.
Thanks,
DB
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Got the skins added over the rawhide, I think they look great!! Again thanks to Pappy and Gary Davis.
I got about 200 arrows through it now with no issues. That rawhide is really tough. If it was't for the wraps I added over the splinter, you would never know I had a problem.
Thanks to all for their input, so far so good.
DB
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I'd say you more than "saved" that one. Really nice job!!
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That does look nice, more pics!
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To nice a bow to see patchs all over it. I refuse to pach a bow. If it's not the way it's surpose to be I build anothe. CHALK IT UP TO EXSPERACE. Super glue ther cracks shoot it untill you can't, build another. Your next will be that much better.
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Crooketarrow,
not to be disagreeable with you, but if I hadn't repaired this bow I wouldn't have a good looken shooter....................
Respectfully,
DB