Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: danny f on June 16, 2012, 12:54:20 pm
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hi all, i have started on my second bow its a sister stave to a 2"x2" ash board i got and did my first bow with. i just wanted a few expert eyes to see if the tiller is looking ok. also i am aiming for around 50 pound at 28", i fell short last time and got 36. the tips are moving about 7" should i go for a low brace at this stage or take off abit more wood first. i dont want to remove to much and fall short again thanks.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr292/dfee82/P1040105.jpg)
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I would go ahead and get a low brace on her if I were you. Try to do that as soon as you get it bending evenly so you won't come in under weight. Looking good but hard to tell till you get it braced. :)
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Looks good, but I would get the last 2/3 moving just a LITTLE bit more. I agree with Josh in the idea you are ready for brace.
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thanks for the quick replys.
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Your right limb is stiff midway. Maybe 10-15 scrapes then a 2-3" brace. No hinges is the biggest concern at first brace, and you look fine.
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Like the others say... if the tips are back 7" you can get proper string on it.
Pull it back carefully aiming towards getting it back to target weight (or close) as you adjust the tiller to slowly increase the draw length.
E.g. Get the tiller good at target weight, then slowly remove wood to bring back the draw length whilst maintaining/adjusting tiller.
Looking pretty good, right limb is a tad stiffer, but it will prob show up more on the short string at a 50#.
You don't say what weight it's at in the pic...???
Del
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i now have it pulling to 21" and it is 48 pounds. i think the right limb looks abit flat just past midway out towards the tip.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr292/dfee82/P1040119.jpg)
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it is braced 2 and half inch from the inside of the handle
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it is now drawing to 24" and it is 52 pounds.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr292/dfee82/P1040121.jpg)
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It's looking real good! I noticed your scale on the wall there but I don't see it attached to the bowstring on any of your pics. How are you measuring the weight on that thing? The reason I ask is because I noticed early on that I get accurate readings if I pull with the scale hooked to the bowstring (on the bow side of the pulley) but if I pull with the scale in my hand (attached to the pull cord on my side of the pulley) the weight reading is very inaccurate (stronger I believe but it's been a while since I did it that way)
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cheers randman, heres a pic of how i do it, i think its the same way as you.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr292/dfee82/P1040122.jpg)
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Looking great ;D. You are obviously getting your eye in.
Some of what you do next will depend on what shape of tiller you are going for, some like arc of a circle, some like more bend near the grip and stiffer tips, some go whip ended.
I go for arc of a circle because theoretically every bit of the limb is equally stressed, the last few inches still remain stiff as there is v little leverage there.
It doesn't really matter as long as you keep it even.
Del
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cheers del, where would you suggest removing wood from now to get the last few inches. i was thinking maybe lighten the tips a little bit. although i quite like the shape of the bend as it is. mmmm what to do lol.
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Yup I'd agree, mid limb to tip. The centre of the bow seems to be bending nicely.
Remember to exercise it lots and hold up a plate or CD up in fornt of you to see the curve of the bow against it. (or do the 'paint' thing... a plate is quicker tho' )
Take it easy the last few inches don't take much wood removal, should be down to scraper/file/sandpaper by now of fine rasp.
Good time to check the string alignment, adjust nocks, any edges, get it to full braceround etc.
Don't try to finish it in a rush...tomorrow will do fine.
Del
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cheers del, this has all been done with a cabinet scraper. i like to keep the belly smooth all the time. i dont like to use a rasp unless i have to remove lots of wood. thats a good idea with the plate i wouldn't have even thought about that little trick. i will take my time now dont want to mess it up. just out of interest what do you reckon the weight will be if its at 52 pound at this stage. thanks.
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Just keep pulling it back to 50# and watch the draw length increase as you take off wood and you'll get back to exactly 50# at 28"
(Assuming you brace it to it's final height)
Del
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That's looking real good! :) You cleary learned a lot from your previous bow.
Del has give some excellent advice. Listen to him. I would think you can round the corners a bit; they seem a bit sharp, but hard to tell. Tillering requires only a few scapes now. Take it slow...
The left inner limb (4" out from the handle) appears a bit stiff.
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thanks again, yes the corners need rounding off, i haven't really rounded them off properly yet. i have definately learned alot from the first bow and all the advice i have been given from everyone especially del. i will get cracking on it in the morning. and see how it goes. i will be well pleased if i hit the 50 pound mark with a good tiller. ;D
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i forgot to ask before what height should i brace to as i went to an archery shop yesterday for a string for my first bow. and he said my brace was to low, and that it needed to be about 8" whicjh i thought was to high
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I personally round the edges on the back of the bow as soon as I reach floor tiller and the width has been established. If the bow has been cut to width, you will not 'scrape away' wood during tillering, thus losing the rounded edges. Sharp corners on the back of a bow are the number one place for a splinter to lift. It's best to round the corners no later than half way tillering. There's no sense in doing it any later.
Yes, 8" of braceheight is way too much! That person is clearly only familiar with modern recurves, which do have about 8" of braceheight. You need a braceheight that clears the feathers of the arrows, which in practice is about 5½ to 6½ inches, measured from the belly of the handle.
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Looks like u are off to a really good start.
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i forgot to ask before what height should i brace to as i went to an archery shop yesterday for a string for my first bow. and he said my brace was to low, and that it needed to be about 8" whicjh i thought was to high
Arrrghhh.. NO no no no no :o. >:D
YOU made it YOU decide on the brace height, based on design, gut feel and the friendly advice of us guys here! O:)
Then you make your own.
Yup you are right 8" is waaaay too high. Guy in an archery shop ... does he make bows? Prob just shoots compounds and recurves (spits on floor)?
Any how I use my fistimelle (fist with thumb sticking up) as a maximium measure and go down a bit on some primitives.
So anywhere from 5 - 6 1/2 " for me.
Del
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i thought it was wrong. he was on about the string slapping my wrist if the brace was as low as i had it. heres a pic of how it looks now i have been putting a roll of selotape on the camera screen to check the tiller and i think the curve is almost perfect the right limb needs a couple of light scrapes right near the tip and it should be ok, does this sound correct or im i still out. i am now starting to learn where to scrape to make the bow go the way i want. heres a pic its pulling 50 pound at 24" so i need to take abit more wood off yet.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr292/dfee82/P1040135.jpg)
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yup, with 4" to go she's pretty ggod.
I'd say the right limb is a whisker stronger/straighter than the left.
Which is the top limb? (I always put top limb to the right it helps to stop me working on the wrong limb by mistake... I'm sure we've all done that)
The outer1/2 - 2/3 of the right limb can have wood removed.
A good trick is to run a pencil line along the bit to be worked and then scrape off the pencil line.
Pencil along the outer 2/3, scrape it off. Pencil along the outer 1/2 scrape it off. Pencil along the last 1/4 scrape it off and then get it back on the tiller.
Before doing that you could look at narrowing the tips, (last 1/3 - 1/4 of the limb) if that's what you fancy, it won't make too much difference to the draw weight or tiller but will prob get you back another 2" and get the outer half moving a whisker more.
Gotta go your own way tho' it just depends how you want it to look.
A little warning...!
Now is a good time to actually get it in front of a mirror or get someone to take a pick of you with it drawn with an arrow on it. A real draw can look quite a bit different to how she looks on the tiller. I'd be doing a few test shots from a shortish draw about now, exercising it plenty, taking lots of pics or even video of it actually being pulled back on the tiller so I can watch it flex and drinking lots of tea. Now is really your last chance to make any real changes in the tiller without missing your target weight.
Del
(Pacing up and down worrying helps too ;) )
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thanks for all the advice del.
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heres a short video i haven't done any more scraping since the last pic the only thing i have done is round of the edges on the back. the bow is the same way round as in the pics.
(http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii588/dfee358/th_P1040141.jpg) (http://s1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii588/dfee358/?action=view¤t=P1040141.mp4)
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Blimey! I nearly fell of my chair as the still is at the wrong aspect ratio and makes it look like it's ready to explode :o.
The vid is nice, it pretty much shows what I'd said, the middle of the bow is working fine, I'd say the outer half of each limb (especially the right)could work a bit more just to get those last few inches without overstressing the middle of the bow. It will also loose some mass off the tips/last third which will help speed.
You still havn't said which limb is going to be the top.
If I have to come over there to have a look there will be trouble ;)
This is all just my view on it of course.... others my want to comment, or maybe they are letting me and my big mouth dig a big hole ;D
Del
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here is a vid of how it is now. i seem to be struggling abit with the final adjustments. i have taken wood of the tips, it is still only drawing 25.5" im not sure where to remove from, the left limb has started to look abit stiff to me. im not sure which limb is the top( the right limb has 2/16 ths more of a gap from the fade) so would this normally be the top or bottom or top limb?
(http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii588/dfee358/th_P1040146.jpg) (http://s1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii588/dfee358/?action=view¤t=P1040146.mp4)
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just watched it again i think i need to remove to some wood on the left lmb from the fade out about 9"
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just watched it again i think i need to remove to some wood on the left lmb from the fade out about 9"
I can see what you mean. It's all getting pretty subtle now. take care not to overdo it, just coax her back to full draw by a fine adjustments.
Remember the golden rule...
When in doubt, stop.
It's looking good, nice to see it flexing.
Del
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here the latest im gona leave it for the night now ive had enough lol. i think it is nearly there now getting it to 26" just 2 more to go woo hoo. :)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr292/dfee82/P1040153.jpg)
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She's looking real good! I look forward to seeing her all dolled up! Josh
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i have been doing some more work on the tillering today and i think it is looking ok now i pulled it to 27" and it was drawing 52 pound. i would be happy with that draw weight but i will have to take abit more off to get the last inch. should i scrape full length on both limbs or can you see anywhere that looks stiffer than others that i should work on first thanks. :)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr292/dfee82/P1040175.jpg)
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That looks really great now.
Final finishing and fettling, slimming the tips doing the grip/shelf/tip overlays etc etc may well get you the last inch.
I'd be tempted to shoot it in for say 50 arrows to let it all settle and then re-weigh it and make any final adustments.
Or just give it a few strokes of the scraper over each limb and call it done.
That's a fine bit of work, great strides from your first. You can be justifiably proud of that bow.
Del
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cheers del your comments and advice are well appreciated. i think i will get the bow sanded and get the tips and handle done and see how it looks, i dont have any arrows yet so i cant shoot it in lol. i will post pics when its all done thanks again for the help. :D