Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: gstoneberg on May 26, 2012, 12:00:03 am
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I took some time off of working on my trade bow to see if cedar tips can be spliced on to an osage billet to make a workable bow. I started with a 48" billet:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8161/7121468627_4b3bdece25_z.jpg)
and glued on cedar tips effectively lengthening the bow a foot to 58".
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7105/7150875879_fbdf98cc08_z.jpg)
As always, I got 1 good splice and 1 bad. I think this is the good one, from the top...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7237/7270823330_42684ece7e_z.jpg)
and bottom.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7229/7270821922_c136ed8ecd_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7238/7270822648_2b34c957f6_z.jpg)
For some reason the phone insisted on focusing on the grass instead of the bow. >:( I should have cut a couple inches off that one end to keep the bow straighter...but where would the fun be in that?? With any luck I'll bend (and maybe break) it tomorrow. I've got to say working that cedar made my shop smell the best it ever has. :)
George
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Great looking splice, I imagine the bow is going to have a mollagebet look so not to be whip tillered. Regardless, consider yourself a scientist with such an experimental design.
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Genius ;):) Hope it works out for ya!
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Wow, never woulda thought of that. :o I'm eager to see how that turns out. Just curious, why cedar? Are you hoping the low density will speed up the bow?
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Cool experiment, George. Little experiments like this has gotten us primitive archers to where we are today. 8)
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I hope it holds up for ya George. Should make a sweet shooter if it does.
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Thanks guys. Yes, I chose cedar because I thought it'd be a nice light tip material. Well, I also thought it'd be pretty too if I could get a little heartwood to show on the belly. Course, it could blow up too. Unfortunately, one of the 2 tips had a bad set of knots that forced me to thin the tip more than I'd have liked. Hopefully it still won't bend. I heat bent that one tip that was so crooked so the string could lay a little more square in the string nock. The osage has a bad crack in the center that goes clear through back to belly. I superglued that tonight as well. We'll see how it goes tomorrow.
George
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That looks really cool 8)makes me a little nervous, hope it works out...be careful ;)
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Nice :), it works for the guys with the horn sinew composites so why not.
Look forward to seeing her finished.
Del
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George, if a stave doesn't have at least 18 major problems you find it dull :). Working out
this idea should make you happy.
Lane
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George, do be careful but nice experiment. Jawge
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A pioneer!! cool experiment. What kind of weight are you shooting for? It sounds like an interesting way to lighten the tips up. I hope it works out for you. ;)
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WOW! I'm hoping this works out George! Good luck buddy ;)
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I'll be careful, hopefully if it blows it'll just be exciting as I use a pulley setup. I figure once I stop hogging wood off the belly I can put a string wrap on those joints for the rest of the tillering. It is going to look like a molly as the working limb will be a fraction of the thickness it was when I took the pics and I'm leaving the glue joint full thickness. I'm always amazed at how little limb depth it takes to make a hunting weight bow, especially a short one. O, and I'm shooting for 50lbs which will be new for me as I typically make 60lb bows. Anyway, it is just barely bending a little and I've removed about a fourth of the thickness in the osage so far. Soon I'll have to slow down a little. More later. Thanks all. :)
George
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Cool!! That's awesome george, hope it works. My shop smells a lot like yours. I just got done splitting my first log, ERC.
Tattoo Dave
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Took longer than I thought as I got a call from a landowner I'm working to get a hog lease with down here, just 30 miles from home. He's a very nice guy and I think it's going to work. I'm excited about it. :)
I have the bow ready to shoot now. It is right on 50#@28". The tiller is not perfect, the limb with natural recrurve retained it but the limb I heat bent lost it. However, the bow took almost no set.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7099/7275271664_491ac04f42_z.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7240/7275270634_a29fa40ac2_z.jpg)
I tried to get a full draw shot, but had a lot of problems holding the camera still while pulling the full weight. The best I got is only at about 25" and isn't all that clear.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7078/7275272546_6ca5cf8d5e_z.jpg)
You can see there's too much bend inboard and not enough mid-limb out. I was working on it but reached draw length and weight before I got it right. I made the mistake of doing a little too much tillering on the long string and the draw weight was too low when I first got it strung. I confess I really tried to avoid overstressing the splice joints and got the limbs bending further before I strung it up. However, the joints are not reinforced with a wrap and so far are taking the strain. It also has one limb with some natural twist. Unless it causes me trouble I'm going to leave it. The good news with osage is that you can make some tillering mistakes and still get a nice bow.
Now, I need to tape on the floppy rest and shoot the bow.
George
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Just called it a day. Spent some time putting snakeskin on the trade bow. Here are the 2 bows, the spliced bow is just under 58" n2n and the trade bow is 66" n2n if memory serves (and it often doesn't).
George
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7228/7276776558_419cb8f50c_z.jpg)
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Very nice George. You sure make some beautiful bows.
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George that's a great idea. I really like the look of the contrast in woods.
That trade bow is looking mighty fine ;)
Cipriano
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Thanks guys. Hey Cip, that skin should look familiar. ;)
George
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GOOD DEAL
But one thing I've did this with 2 osage but I adDed osage. The one splice that the bent with the limb did'nt make it. But the one that I cut short enough that the splice did'nt been came out ok.
I cut the tips down to where the last 4 inchs of the tips did'nt been. Like a regure bow is done. That will be lighter tips for sure,you sure won't had anny hand shock with those light tips.
But like I said I'd make them not been. But who knows your's might make it.
GOOD LUCK
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Yes, I was very careful to leave the joint full thickness so it wouldn't bend there. The narrower tip was threatening to bend outboard of the splice when I was floor tillering, but doesn't appear to with the rest of the limb working at draw weight. That was a factor in why I shot for a lower draw weight. Good thing too, since I didn't nail the tiller.
I think I'll laminate osage and cedar heartwood for tip overlays. I also plan to wrap the splices before calling the bow done. I want to get the finish on the bow first so the belly cedar heartwood really stands out. I'm hoping the joint will show through the sinew wrap. If it weren't so non-primitive I'd wrap it with clear monofilament fishing line.
George
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The cedar tipped bow looks great!! Hows it shoot? That trade bow also looks awesome G!
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That is a sweet looking bow love the splice work and the contrast between the two woods. great work
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Mr. G,
That trade bow is outstanding sir....But you have to know that the little "D" is just super.
rich
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Cools beans george...a couple years ago a guy on another forum v spliced purpleheart levers on a piece of ash...he didnt wrap it either and as far as i know it shot for a couple years,and prob still is....he no longer is on the forum so i dont know if its still alive...but id say if ya used a good glue then it should be fine....and in my opinion it looks cooler seeing the splice
A year n a half ago i prepped a short osage piece,and two pieces of ERC to splice into the osage core.....but that project has been sitting on my shelf now for a year n a half....maybe its time to finish it...lol ;D
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Thanks guys. I haven't shot it yet. Hope to this afternoon, but the wife is coming home tonight and I'm scrambling to do some things I should have done earlier. :-[ Either way I'll finish it up tomorrow and get her to take a money shot.
I thought you'd like it Rich, I do too. There's something about a short bow that makes me smile. I intended for this one to be bendy handle, but I'll have to shoot it to see if I can feel the handle give. I can't tell from the pictures and I ran out of draw length before I worked the handle much.
I used smooth-on BH, it is good stuff and has never failed me no matter how sloppy the joint is.
George
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The question of whether it bends in the handle is answered, it does. It shoots great. I shot my 3Rivers test arrow set, and the 40# shafts shoot the best. There's just a hint of hand shock, bad tillering no doubt. I just shot 1 group but it was a good one.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7081/7283289638_fc591d0232_z.jpg)
If you look close you can see an arrow strike on that white feathered 45-50 shaft. I should have gone and moved it after it tipped down as I hit it twice and ruined the arrow. :'( I'll finish the bow up, wrap those splices, and then shoot it some more. I rather like the handle the way it is, may leave it that way, add a thinner floppy rest and a cord wrap to hold down the rest. Have to think about some adornment for the back. :-\ Been a good couple days of bow building. :)
George
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Nicely done, George! Jawge
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George, I thought that skin looked familiar ;D
That's a sweet D bow for sure. If ya need to dress it up let me know.. I have some skin and a technique that I haven't seen yet, but I'm rather a newbie still.
Cipriano
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I really like the look's of those splices George, look's like flames on a street rod, Bub
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Thanks Cip, I'll call you tomorrow if you're going to be around. I've got more snakeskin too, that other WDB and the big rat snake I skinned. Not sure what I want to do, have to think on it. I'm replacing a bow I traded that didn't work out, so it won't end up with me. Might should ask him what he wants. :)
Thanks Jawge and Bub.
George
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I love it. I like the short bendy handles. I appreciate you sharing this project. Splicing a lighter wood for tips opens up all sorts of possibilities! It has started me thinking about all sorts of combinations... I love the diamondback on the other bow. That looks awesome.
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Cedar + osage = cesage?
Osage + cedar = odar?
I'm left shaking my head again George. Just shaking my head. Will someone please send this guy a nice piece of wood to work with? >:D
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...Will someone please send this guy a nice piece of wood to work with? >:D
You're assuming I don't have access to nice wood?? How silly of you. Whenever somebody new comes by to make a bow they walk to my wood rack and pick a nice reasonably straight piece, right where I have left it for them. What remains are twisted, bug infested, crooked staves...and I like turning them into bows. :)
George
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Aint no such a thing as too short, twisted, cracked or warped for Mr. G
rich
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Very nicely pulled off, that turned out nice. :)
Pappy
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Nice job George. That was a very adventurous endeavor and I'm glad you were able to make a good shooter out of it. I must be a real sissy cuz I even when I reach for as clean a stave as I can, I still have trepidations on whether I can get a good bow from it. Good to see your still making shavings. Good luck on your hog lease too. Danny
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Nice job Georgey porgey! Very cool experiment, may favorite way to build.
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Guess I'll bring this one up to date. With the trade bow done and gone I had a few minutes to work on this bow this morning. Got the tip overlays on, shaped, narrowed and string nocks recut. The cedar was extremely prone to picking up dirt off my sweaty arms. So, I decided to go ahead and put a coat of finish on. I really like the look of the cedar, osage and mesquite. :) Need to decide what to put on this bow's back?
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8142/7472904520_1aa29dfa8b_z.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8154/7472842038_dc4b6e9882_z.jpg)
O crud, I see some file marks there I need to sand out.
George
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Wow George that experiment turned out real nice!!!
Gives me some ideas for some less than perfect stuff I have in the shop :)
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Definitely creative genius, George!
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Lookin good.....nice and light tips.
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That is a striking looking bow, the design and color combos look great, very unique. Great work on that George I'm enjoying watching this bow come together, thanks for posting this project.
Greg
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I like it more every time I come back to look at it.
Cipriano
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This is real nice, the three woods in these poportions. 8) I'd back it with a kiss only, maybe some extra polishing. But I'm exited to see what you come up with. It's a pleasure to look at already, I'd love to shoot it.
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Very cool bow, George! It's even better cause I just came in from the shop from working on a very similar short bendy piece of hedge. (without the cedar tips.)
I hadn't seen this post till today and was shocked at how much I was in your head. I just got the tips glued on and was thinkin about adding skins next. Your bow definitely has more attitude than mine, though. I love it!
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Thanks for all the kind words. I'm torn between putting a special skin on it from Mr C, or just leaving it natural. My rat snake from the shop is actually a little too long. I don't want to cover up the splice joints. Decisions decisions. Cool Stringman, can't wait to see yours.
George
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Very well done George.That smooth on is some good stuff too is'nt it.
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Jodocus has a point...back it with a KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid). It would be a shame to hide any of that fine looking wood!
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Please don't hide the splices! They look too awesome. ;D
Now you got me wanting to try yet another experimental procedure. LOL
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I've let this bow languish for quite awhile. Cipriano sent me a moccasin skin for it and it got lost. I was so depressed about it I went off and worked on other bows and flint knapping. The other day my wife was shredding and found Cipriano's letter with the snakeskin still inside. With renewed energy I'm pushing on now to finish it. Got the skin on today and hope to get some time working on a handle wrap tomorrow. That moccasin has a nice pattern to it.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8350/8236023165_c46ffe900a_z.jpg)
George
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beautifully done! what glue did you use on the lever splice?
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That's smooth-on epoxy. I've shot the bow a bit and I now intend to leave the splices unwrapped. It's a pretty low poundage bow (mid 40s) and I think they can handle it. And thanks.
George
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George this has got to be one of your prettiest bows yet.. Beautiful in all respects..
Cipriano
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so im assuming the goal of this bow was to reduce tip weight and at the same time increase the length of this bow? Impressive either way!
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so im assuming the goal of this bow was to reduce tip weight and at the same time increase the length of this bow? Impressive either way!
Pretty much. I had a 48" billet and wanted a 56" bow. Also had a juniper stave that had warped badly standing in a corner of the shop. Looking around for something to glue to the limb tips I spotted the juniper and thought it'd be a nice light, pretty wood to use.
I think my distrust of the splice influenced me to not pull the bow to the design weight while tillering. Since I like to hunt between 55 and 60 lbs and this one is about 45lbs I'll probably donate it in the next Christian Care Center auction. I'll try this approach again and next time make a heavier bow. I'm thinking if I do a really good job cleaning and stripping back sinew I could make a wrap almost see-through over the splice. I've got a very old osage corner post that's about 50" long I'll use next time.
Thanks Cipriano, your skin really looks sharp, better than I'd hoped.
George
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I'm glad to see this always wondered what happened to it???
Let's get her shootin George :)
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hope you can post at least a full draw pic, maybe even a vid of how it shoots.
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I forgot about this bow. Great to see it nearing completion. Good thing your wife paused before that letter went through the shredder...because those skins are georges, I mean gorgeous! ;D
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It's already shooting, though I'm surprised at my choice of upper limb now as I look at it. There was natural reflex at the end of the stave and I chose that end for the upper limb. I heated a little reflex in the lower limb and glued some into the splice but what I heated in came out in tillering. I would have thought that more reflexed limb would've worked better on the bottom. I'll shoot it both ways before I do the grip and floppy rest. Never too late to turn it upside down. :) Now that I think about it, I'll bet the string isn't centered in the handle and I chose the limb that made it closest to center shot. I'll find out later today.
I'm batchin it this week Muffin, the wife is away visiting grandkids. If I can find my tripod I might take a couple videos when I'm testing to make sure I have the correct limb up.
Yes I agree, we dodged a bullet when she opened that letter. Those moccasin skins are really nicely marked. I think the yellow wood behind the skin helped bring out the pattern too. Usually a cottonmouth that long would have been much wider and almost black. Cipriano did me right for sure, I texted him a picture as soon as I had the skins in place and saw how they looked. :)
I should get a couple hours of work done on it this afternoon. I experimented with a rope wrap grip, but have decided instead on a plain black leather grip. Just happened to receive some lovely black leather in trade. ;D I love the look of a plain leather grip for some reason.
George
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Like that one a lot George. Very nice. Wanna see it in action.
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Good to see this coming to completion George. Nice design, great looking bow and interesting concept. Looking really good, can't wait to see her all finished up. :)
Greg
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Thanks, I've spent the time I should've probably been working on the handle trying to capture a video. Harder than it looks. The first 2 arrows are with the originally designated upper limb. The last 2 cane arrows are with the other limb up. I find it really odd that it looks like there's a stiff spot just off the upper fade on both limbs, but neither appears to have it when it's the bottom limb. Not sure what to think of that. The string is centered in the handle so I can do either limb up. I didn't spend any time to speak of cleaning anything up on the video. I just trimmed stuff off the beginning, middle (while I was flipping the bow), end, and added a picture of the unstrung bow.
I'm not sure now which limb should be on top? Either way there is absolutely no hand shock. Here's the video:
http://youtu.be/zgVrmQNFd0I (http://youtu.be/zgVrmQNFd0I)
George
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Sweeeet. I've thought on many occasions that that would be a dynamite combo. How does it feel in the hand?
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So, this worked with ceder. Would this be workable with purple heart? I have a scrap piece of hickory that is only about 44 inches long, i was thinking that i wouldn't be able to do anything with it, now i think there is a possibility of making it work if i make a molle, a 40/60 lever to working would be workable since i would have about 36 inches of working limb and 24 inches of lever. Since i really dont care if the stave breaks further or not maybe its not such a bad idea. You have inspired me to try to do something ive never done! and to think i was going to give up on it! There's some pics of the broken stave.
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I don't know muffin, that split down into the limb looks bad to me. I hope it works for you.
I need to quit hunting long enough to finish the bow. It's ready for the floppy rest and handle wrap.
George
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Naaahh, keep hunting!! Always time for work! >:D ;D
Scott
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Propeller twist shows up like a hinge from one side but not the other !
Looks good !!
Guy
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I have been Scott. :)
Thanks Guy, I don't remember it having propeller twist, but I'll try to look at it next time I'm out there.
Sweeeet. I've thought on many occasions that that would be a dynamite combo. How does it feel in the hand?
Sorry Slim, missed your question. It feels good in the hand, lighter than I'm used to, but I almost always shoot osage so I don't have a lot to compare it to. It's not as light as the one yew bow I worked. I wish I had a chrony to keep track of how it compares to a plain osage bow. It's a little slower than my 51#, 51" sinew backed osage shorty but that's understandable. I wouldn't call it a screamer, but then again I usually shoot bows that are heavier in draw weight.
George
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Ah, good to see, I had thought about wheter I had missed this bow or you broke it. Kept popping up in my mind every now and then. came out nice like that, with the skin and the splice visible. 8)
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The annual Christian Care Center auction is coming up so I finished this bow up over the weekend and it will be my donation to their cause. I sure am slow these days. I like the way this one came out, it is one of the prettier bows I've made. With the joints it has a molly like profile at full draw. I finished out the handle in black leather and it's shot off the hand. It draws 47lbs@28".
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8101/8610744421_47441b5b59_z.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8244/8611849900_bd1674848b_z.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8389/8611848660_85807c0319_z.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8247/8610741757_39a1f289d9_z.jpg)
George
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Great looking bow George!
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Wow! Yep, worth the wait! Nice all around!
Scott
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NICE!!!
OneBow
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Very very nice. Love how that turned out.
Jon
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look's like your little experiment turned out, that is a sweet lookin' little bow George, Bub
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That is really neat George.I've never seen one done like that. Great work. God Bless
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Great bow George and it finished up real pretty too. Really like that one.
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Sweet George. Like how it turned out.
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Very nice George!
Cipriano
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Dang George !!!
That's one for the books, well done!!!
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Its nice to see you posting some of your work again George. That thing turned out great.
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Thanks, you're all very kind. I hope it does well for the center.
George
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Wow great job George that is a real looker for shure!!!!!hope it dose well ;)
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Now that's a beauty,long time coming but a beauty just the same. ;) :)
Pappy
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Absolutely beautiful bow George!!!,
Knapper
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It turned out nice, George! I bet it is speedy with those light tips!
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Wow i love those tips! Hard work always pays off in the end
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One cool looking bow! Nice work!
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Very pretty bow!
Kevin