Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Will Carothers on May 01, 2012, 07:33:29 pm
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Hey everyone, this is my first post here but ive been frequenting tradgang and paleoplanet, and at all ive been requesting help for a new project im working on. I am filming a documentary on how the english warbow changed the course of britain's history. Ive been directed here by many of them.
Can any of you who have extensive knowledge on the subject, ideas on what i should incorporate, or ideas on who i should contact, please comment or send me a PM, it would be greatly appreciated!
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Can you tell me more about the documentary? Is it a project, TV etc.
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I'd also like to know about the project. What is your production company, have you made deals to have it broadcast in the states or overseas, how large is the budget, your film credentials before this, what kind of audience is this targeted to, etc. Are you the director, the producer, are you above or below the line, and so on. What kind of talent do you have lined up for in front of the camera, and is this a historical show or a popular show like Deadliest Warrior or some of the other History Channel stuff? I hope you dont mind my asking, but someone else will if you are serious about this. I guess the biggest creative question though is what kind of new ground are you covering?
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Well, this is just a project im looking into, i have had a passion for the history of archery, especially the warbow. It is a project for my school with which i can qualify for the National Competition in Washington DC. The prize for the winning documentary is $10,000 and a featurette on the History Channel. I hope i can follow the true history as close as i can, but the documentary can be only 10-15 minutes long, but with this, topic, i believe i could do extremely well
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sounds like an interesting project, compared to people like Ian i don't have an "extensive" knowledge of this subject as i am still learning, but i can try to think of things to incrporate
good luck with this noble venture
noel
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Much has been writen in the past and Robert Hardy's book 'Longbow' pretty much covers it.
Beware of 'knowledgeable people'! Bear in mind none of us were there so there are lot of self proclaimed 'experts'.
I would suggest two main areas to concentrate on.
1. The weapon it's self.
2. The tactics and organisation, which were arguable the more important
e.g Agincourt where I believe the French had no defined leader or comand structure, whereas the English had a clear line of command. The French contrived to loose the battle despite vastly superior numbers.
Del
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Will, good luck. You are going to have to be extremely selective, since you only have ~10 - 15 minutes.
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You need to watch the documentary "Weapons that made Britain - The Long Bow" by Mike Loades.
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ideas on what i should incorporate, or ideas on who i should contact, please comment or send me a PM, it would be greatly appreciated!
As mentioned , Hardy's "Longbow" or Bradbury's "Medieval Archer" cover the battles thoroughly. You might be able to get them by interlibrary loan. "With a Bended Bow" by Roth covers everything else in detail. It is not yet out in North America but can be ordered from the Book Depository in the UK without a charge for shipping. While iit is true that none of us lived in the Middle Ages, there is lots of information available. None of us lived during World War I either, but we can learn about it.
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The French contrived to loose the battle despite vastly superior numbers.
Del
Much like the classic Irish battle tactic of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
There have been so many documentary films done on the English archer, maybe you are overlooking something here. Why not a documentary on the growing Archery Underground? The radical punk/alternative to wheelie bows, mechanization, and the mindless commercialization of archery...namely the Primitive Archers. We are the dirty little secret that is growing by leaps and bounds, those that prove once again that "sticks and stones will break bones".
There is this amazing junxtaposition of the 21st century technology promulgating technology that began 14,000 years ago. Face it, America loves an underdog story. >:D
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Well spoken crass knave! JW, you be DA man! 8) That is an excellent idea, being as there is a "Plethora" of books, and articles, and history channel series on the English long bow. How about as JW suggests, and tell of the rise of the primitive crowds, and their archery, and their fascination with the skill, and weapons, and techniques, of our ancestors, Native Americans. And proving, that it still can be done, without modern technology. One of the English Boyer's of times past, stated that the American white woods, simply have no cast. Apparently he neglected to remember all those that were pierced by the arrows cast by those same white woods. Delve into the aspect, of the growing primitive archery scene, and it's history. As for the English long bow, There are experts here, and though they were not there during in any battles, they can tell you about the pros and cons of the English War Bow, it's physical characteristics, and so forth. But as for the English War Bow itself, and it's advantage over the French, you will only be echoing what has already been said, or filmed. ;) Good luck with your project.
Wayne
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I love the ideas, but the subject of the project must follow the theme- turning points in history, and the judges dont really like projects that focus on more modern events, if u can think of any topics that fit this, let me know
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Sorry, this is off topic, but I agree with JW, and it saddens me that the Olympics will only be hosting target archery which is a pretty boring spectacle and there are people pressing to include compounds >:(. Field archery would be so much more entertaining, in fact they could combine it with the mountain biking course >:D.... bloke in gorilla costume pedals past... twack thud :laugh:
Del
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I love the ideas, but the subject of the project must follow the theme- turning points in history, and the judges dont really like projects that focus on more modern events, if u can think of any topics that fit this, let me know
Yeah, cuz you know there are NEVER turning points in current history! Turning points have always occurred in the past!
The turning point this all hinges on would be Ishi. Dr. Saxton Pope tending to Ishi's recurring illnesses befriends the "Last Wild Indian" only to become interested in archery, begins making "primitive bows", jump to Howard Hill with out-takes from the Robin Hood film with Errol Flynn, the articles in sporting magazines of the 50's and 60's showing how to make a bow from lemonwood. Then on to Jim Hamm and all those whackos that created The Traditional Bowyer's Bible (volumes 1-4 available from this very same website). Interviews and photos from the Tennessee Classic would round it out along with your experiences with the Archery Underground!
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Parry and thrust! By Jove jolly well said JW, in fact it was the very thing I was going to say, but alas, I hath tarried too long, and dwelled upon it, till it twas over taken, by you, who wouldst have young youth, to see what he seeketh, is but before him, and all is needeth, is to pointeth out thy words of wisdom, and that rules, are indeed followed, if he wouldst but see pattern of history, hath but reborn of itself again. Aye, it be the truth that saxton, pope, and young, not being a modern rock group, had but to delve into the lifestyle of Ishi of yore. It is indeed from there, and not to be forgotten the Thompson Bros. , that they did indeed reviveth, the bewitching art of ancient archery. If thy judges cannot see the turning points in the history of archery, and how it slowly died out after the invention of gunpowder, and then the flintlock, percussion, and then the cartridge, weapons, it all but disappeared, save but for the poor primitive soles that still depended on it for survival, then what fools they be! As JW hath spoken of, turning points in history, are not only in the past, nay, but they be in the present also, for will not these points in the future, be referred to as turning points of the past, as we speak now of those points in those times of long past? Dangeth, I needeth a wench! :( Guess I will just have a beer. :P Now fast forward to modern times, and wallah, Archery is back as strong as ever, and gaining more, and more converts. Start off explaining the pros and cons of the English long bow, and then the slow demise after gunpowder became available, and the decline of archery to a hobby, and no longer a martial weapon, even though the Mary Rose, had cannon, and matchlocks, they still had archers, in the crow's nest . Then came the resurgence of archery, to Olympics, to Saxton pope, et al, and the invention of the compound bow, and then the turning point where archers are going back to basics, and relearning the primitive archery, that fed and protected our ancestors, and trying to match wits with the same game animals our ancestors hunted, and learning the skills it took to master the primitive bow and arrow, and the skill it takes to get close enough to make a humane kill. Up to you, but anything about the long bow has already pretty much been said. But good luck, and there is a lot of info here, and people with a lot of knowledge of the history, and pros and cons of the long bow, it's construction, dimensions, wood types, etc., and are more than willing to answer your questions. Get the info, and play modern news media, and use artistic license, using just enough partial facts, and half truths, to make it interesting enough to sell to the Judges. ;) ::) As we used to say in the Dental Lab business, it if doesn't fit, polish the hell out of it! ;D ;D Judges like shiny things also. ;)
Wayne
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.... it if doesn't fit, polish the hell out of it! ;D
That's a keeper :)
Del
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Sorry, this is off topic, but I agree with JW, and it saddens me that the Olympics will only be hosting target archery which is a pretty boring spectacle and there are people pressing to include compounds >:(. Field archery would be so much more entertaining, in fact they could combine it with the mountain biking course >:D.... bloke in gorilla costume pedals past... twack thud :laugh:
Del
Good idea there Del....... ;D ;D
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These guys are right. There isnt that much to say about the long bow in English martial history that hasnt been said before, and in 15 minutes, very little you can do. But you can blow them away if you take a very novel approach to all this. Remember that a documentary is a story, and good storytelling is the key, not a regurgitation of many, many other shows you may have seen. A turning point can be huge and splashy, like the Guttenberg press or the invention of penecillan or the invention of the steam engine or the invention of the atomic bomb, or something really subtle that took a long time to become obviously important and world changing. And who says turning points have to be giant, anyway? The invention of the potatoe chip is an example I can think of that revolutionized the world and is now contributing to heart disease and all that bad stuff, but was just a chef's frustration with a difficult customer at the resort he cooked at, or the hot dog bun, which was only because a sausage vendor at a fair got tired of having customers steal his white gloves and the high cost of laundering them.
Wench, stickbender. We all need wenches.
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Wenches, and scwewdwivews too!
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Another little known factoid: The US Army did some experimenting with archery in WWII for some of the recon people.
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Another little known factoid: The US Army did some experimenting with archery in WWII for some of the recon people.
Even more unknown.
Captain Jack Churchill actually used a bow to kill a German soldier in the retreat to Dunkirk in WWII 1940.
Here's an edited extract of the account from E.G Heath's 'Archery a Military History'.
" He was in command of a mixed force holding the village of L'Epinette, near Bethune...
Climbing into the loft of a small granary they saw, some thirthy yards away, five German soldiers sheltering behind a wall but in clear view of the granary. He fetched two infantry men and instructed them to open rapid fire, but not until he had loosed an arrow at the centre man...
At the same time as the bow string twanged the air was shattered by the rapid fire of the two infantry men.
Captain Churchill was delighted to see his arrow stricke the centre German in the left of the chest..."
He'd been a member of the British team in the World Archery Championship in Oslo in 1939
In the War Diary of the 4th Infanty brigade it states
"One of the reasurring sights of the embarkation was Captain Churchill passing down the beach with his bow and arrows!..."
Del
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PDAWBLkx_NI/TyURH_Mw7tI/AAAAAAAAANI/AB36TBCWgB4/s640/captain-mad-jack-churchill.jpg)
Jack Churchill thought a soldier was underdressed if he wasnt carrying a sword.If you read about him he was a prime soldier (mad as a hatter though).He was thoroughly annoyed with the 'yanks' when they dropped their Atom bombs as he thought he could have had another good ten years of fighting with the 'Japs'
His words not mine....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Churchill
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Del, excellent idea, we could convince the bunny huggers to dress up in those suits, as a protest to archery. ;) Take care of two birds with one arrow. ;) ::) Dane, thanks for illuminating the spelling error for me. I didn't catch it when I proof read it. But it be fixatated now, and I polished it really well. ;D ;D ;D At my age, it may be that I might need a "winch" in the future..... ::) And a screw driver as well, JW. ;)
Boy, ol Mad jack was a character, I don't think I would want to have commanding me! :o "Private, be a good lad, and go and fetch my arrow, from the body, of that poor unsuspecting Bosch, Chap, and step lively now." Too bad he had the infantry men shoot, so soon, it spoiled the shocked, and confused look on their faces, when they saw their companion sprouting feathers, on a stick! :o ??? Goot himmel, vas is los mit dat? Red neck translation,... Whut the hell? I think the Brits, had used crossbows, on a few commando raids. Not sure. I know there was a movie, where they did, but with Holly Wood, anything is possible. ;)
But all of this aside, I wish a winning story, for you Will, and with a last name like Carothers, what better subject to write about? ;)
Wayne