Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: kevinnator11 on April 26, 2012, 08:50:13 pm
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So I've been enjoying breaking bows lately as a newb and I've been doing everything by hand with a rasp, scraper, surform and short hand saw. I'm planning on buying some new tools soon.
What would you guys say was the most important tool you have? I'm talking power tools. I still plan to use my rasp and scraper a lot of course but getting the wood down closer to form faster would be great.
I'd love to get everything I need but that would be hard to justify to the old lady so I'm probably gonna have to settle for a couple of purchases. I'm thinking bandsaw and belt sander maybe.
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A good bandsaw. A belt sander is nice but I would spend the money on a really good bandsaw and blades.
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Bandsaw.
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u didn't mention drawknife , thats the #1 tool after splitting, then the bandsaw, rasp and scraper, then sandpaper, steelwool, finish, then get another stave and start over!
I can't do without the drawknife!
Jamie
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If you want hand tool recommendations. X2 on a good drawknife and a shinto file/rasp. These things are great!
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I've been using boards so far. Does a drawknife work well on the boards?
I've only finished one bow and I'm still amazed that it still works. Since then not so much but I'm working on the third now.
I've got the bug just don't have the tools.
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I only use a drawknife to chase a ring. I don't do that with board bows. If that is what you are doing, I would go with a good bandsaw and the Shinto.
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bandsaw!!!.... man i need to get one :'( ;D
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SHINTO!!!!!
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Ya gotta be careful with a bandsaw, I once saw an experienced bowyer (not gonna say who) put a finished, sinew-snakeskin-cable backed longbow on band saw...
Maybe I should explain first
The bow had a overbuilt handle and was fretted at the fades so we agreed that we should cutout the middle and the fretted fades and splice the limbs & glue a handle over the joint(the bow was long enough for this)
We printed up some "w" splice layouts and cut the handle out (with the bandsaw)and then glued on the layouts, we cut the splices(with the bandsaw) and THEN realized that the splices were the same, a "w" and a "w", not a "w" and a "m"
There were weeks of work in that bow and it was all over with one quick cut...
I'm not saying that we shod have used hand tools for the cut, just that the bandsaw can emphasize you mistake as fast as you can make them
Moral, you gotta be real slow & careful with the bandsaw, while it is a useful tool it can be very destructive in a matter of seconds
-Billy
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The one power tool I would suggest is a bandsaw also. Try to get at least a 14" with 1hp motor if you can. Check out Grizzly. I have a few Grizzly power tools and would recommend them. Not too expensive but well built, good tech support and fast service with parts. All I've had to porder is wear item parts;blades, guides, etc.
I use a bandsaw to get a stave to about 3/4" thick with a deeper handle area and cut out 1/8" outside the bows outline. From there I use a farriers rasp, Nicholson #49 rasp and a scraper. I built many bows with a carpenters 4 way rasp and a coarse wood rasp and my draw knife as a scraper.
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I agree with everybody on the bandsaw bit and YES you do have to be very careful and know what you are doing or you can ruin a good stave in SECONDS (even an experienced bandsaw guy - don't ask me how I know). A good SINGLE BEVEL hatchet is safer for roughing out bows with especially if you are inexperienced with a bandsaw.
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Spokeshave is V useful, sorta fits in between drawknife and rasp, but can work V fine and still give a nice finish.
A bandsaw is great, but you are only allowed to buy one if you are over 50, otherwise use an axe ;)
I've been toying with the idea of a belt sander, but for me it's getting a bit too close to 'manufacturing' rather than 'making'... this is primitive archer right?
When does saving time become removing enjoyment?
On due consideration the only tool you should be using is your teeth ;D
Del
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One of the tools I use most often in board bows, is a decent hand plane. When kept sharp and well adjusted, it can really hog off a lot of wood, while getting the width right.
If you're looking for a power tool, I would indeed go for a band saw. If you're into laminated bows, a belt sander may be even better.
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If I could only have one power tool it would by far be the bandsaw,buy the best you can afford,yes you have to be careful,one rule I learned the hard way,always keep the part of the stave /board/or bow you can't see away from the blade then you will never have a problem,kind of like my Grand Dad when he gave me my first knife,always cut away from yourself and you will never cut yourself, if I had only listened. ??? ;) ;D ;D ;D
Pappy
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Spokeshave is V useful, sorta fits in between drawknife and rasp, but can work V fine and still give a nice finish.
A bandsaw is great, but you are only allowed to buy one if you are over 50, otherwise use an axe ;)
I've been toying with the idea of a belt sander, but for me it's getting a bit too close to 'manufacturing' rather than 'making'... this is primitive archer right?
When does saving time become removing enjoyment?
On due consideration the only tool you should be using is your teeth ;D
Del
That I have not tryed yet Del !
I better do it soon as they are getting fewer and farther between these days !
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Spokeshave is V useful, sorta fits in between drawknife and rasp, but can work V fine and still give a nice finish.
A bandsaw is great, but you are only allowed to buy one if you are over 50, otherwise use an axe ;)
I've been toying with the idea of a belt sander, but for me it's getting a bit too close to 'manufacturing' rather than 'making'... this is primitive archer right?
When does saving time become removing enjoyment?
On due consideration the only tool you should be using is your teeth ;D
Del
I think my problem is my first and only working bow was for the old lady so it pulls about 30#. I'm wanting to get mine finished to have something stronger but with work and time I get impatient hence breaking my 3rd and 4th attempt. Crazy part is she can't draw it! Could have stopped sooner and had myself a bow.
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The one power tool I would suggest is a bandsaw also. Try to get at least a 14" with 1hp motor if you can. Check out Grizzly. I have a few Grizzly power tools and would recommend them. Not too expensive but well built, good tech support and fast service with parts. All I've had to porder is wear item parts;blades, guides, etc.
I use a bandsaw to get a stave to about 3/4" thick with a deeper handle area and cut out 1/8" outside the bows outline. From there I use a farriers rasp, Nicholson #49 rasp and a scraper. I built many bows with a carpenters 4 way rasp and a coarse wood rasp and my draw knife as a scraper.
I was looking into the Grizzly. How are they for weight? I would have to move it into and out of the house everytime I use it as I don't have a shop. Previously had a Delta and that wasn't possible without a dolly.
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I've used reciprocating saws, chainsaws, radial arm saws, table saws, bandsaws, belt sanders, disk sanders, dremel tools, planers, and all sorts of power tools. My conclusion is this: If I can do it in 10 minutes with a hand tool, I can totally eff it up in less than 10 seconds with a power tool. Other than lights, the only power tool I work with anymore is a 1/4 sheet palm sander to take out the rough tool marks.
Having said that, I'm not into making bows, or shooting bows, or even hunting with bows. I do all those things, yes. But I am into working wood with hand tools. It's that interaction of the tool and the wood that I am after. You just can't take that away from me and keep me happy. Neat, uniform curls of wood softly falling to the floor, the whisper of the tool edge parting the wood fibers, the feel of the woodgrain vibrating thru the tool handles in the palms of my hands....almost as good as, uh, right....family oriented site and all.
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dont worry about the weight of the saw, i move mine in and out with a dolly, Bub
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dont worry about the weight of the saw, i move mine in and out with a dolly, Bub
What does the wife say about that? ;D
Del
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I feel sort of like JW. I have lots of power tools and don't hesitate to use them when I am building anything except a bow. For whitewood bows I use an antique hatchet that a friend of mine traded me. He fitted it with a fine osage handle. It is razor sharp and heavy enough that I can hog off wood to the rough shape fairly quickly. Then it is the shurform rasp which moves fast enough for me to ruin a bow with, if I get carried away. My rasps and a little cabinet scraper are fast enough for me. I am not running any races and I really enjoy the process of building a bow with hand tools. I do use an electric sander for the finishing work. I have a couple of draw knives which come in handy stripping bark off and chasing a ring (so far I have chased one!) This picture shows about everything you need to make a bow - I would say that add a work bench, a vise, and some c-clamps, and spring clamps and you would be off and running. Enjoy yourself.
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As nice as power tools can be, I have to agree 100% with JW. The single most useful hand tool I use is an adz. And if I could only have one tool, it would be draw knife. Look for the best ones at antique stores and flea markets, Mine is over 100 years old and I can't live without it.
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You don't need power tools to build bows. Hand tools make you slow down which is what most beginners need to do. I've built hundreds of bows without a bandsaw. Make yourself a half a dozen bows and then get a bandsaw if you want. I use a hatchet, drawknife, surform, Swedish dknife as a scraper. I do use a belt sander. They can be aggressive though so build a few before using one or any other power tool. Experience tells you how much wood needs to be removed. I use other tools for chasing rings but I already wrote about that LOL. See my site. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html
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Power tools are not necessary for building bows. I used only hand tools for years. What I do like about using a bandsaw is removing waste wood that used to take me hours of hard work to do. I used a draw knife for most of this. I, personally, never had the control I needed with an ax and ruined a few staves trying to learn.
From reading Del's age recomendation I'm well qualified to own and use a bandsaw. ;) Grizzly makes a good 14", 1hp bandsaw that won't break the bank. You can also get a coaster attachment for the saw that makes it easy to move around when you need to but holds the saw stable when in use.
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As nice as power tools can be, I have to agree 100% with JW. The single most useful hand tool I use is an adz. And if I could only have one tool, it would be draw knife. Look for the best ones at antique stores and flea markets, Mine is over 100 years old and I can't live without it.
Bought my first draw knife today!
My fiance and I went to a local flea market using your tip and scored an old, rather sharp draw knife. Not sure how old it is but it has been used! Actually my fiance found it while I was looking through another venders items. It was the only one we saw at the market. :D
Also found a rasp, an old hatchet, and a couple of clamps. (can never have enough clamps)
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A good question to ask yourself is this: "Do I just want a stick bow to shoot or do I want to spend time making bows?"
If you just want a bow, make a trade with any of the people on this site and you will have one whale of a good time shooting what you get! Chances are it will be better than anything you make at first. Mission accomplished, you are shooting a decent bow fairly cheap, cheaper than ruining half a dozen staves especially if you throw in your time (time is money ya know).
But if you want the experience of making a bow or even lots of bows if the bug bites deep enough (and it will) and you want the pride of carrying something made by your own hands....then double down and go whole hog. Use the energy stored in your muscles to remove wood, learn the intricate fine motor skills of using simple hand tools, enjoy the whole process from start to finish. Building bows is not a race, it's a process.
Whatever you chose, always post pics of your work. That is not an option! >:D
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As nice as power tools can be, I have to agree 100% with JW. The single most useful hand tool I use is an adz. And if I could only have one tool, it would be draw knife. Look for the best ones at antique stores and flea markets, Mine is over 100 years old and I can't live without it.
Bought my first draw knife today!
My fiance and I went to a local flea market using your tip and scored an old, rather sharp draw knife. Not sure how old it is but it has been used! Actually my fiance found it while I was looking through another venders items. It was the only one we saw at the market. :D
Also found a rasp, an old hatchet, and a couple of clamps. (can never have enough clamps)
Good deal. And having a fiance who is willing to help you find old tools is a keeper. :)
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A good question to ask yourself is this: "Do I just want a stick bow to shoot or do I want to spend time making bows?"
If you just want a bow, make a trade with any of the people on this site and you will have one whale of a good time shooting what you get! Chances are it will be better than anything you make at first. Mission accomplished, you are shooting a decent bow fairly cheap, cheaper than ruining half a dozen staves especially if you throw in your time (time is money ya know).
But if you want the experience of making a bow or even lots of bows if the bug bites deep enough (and it will) and you want the pride of carrying something made by your own hands....then double down and go whole hog. Use the energy stored in your muscles to remove wood, learn the intricate fine motor skills of using simple hand tools, enjoy the whole process from start to finish. Building bows is not a race, it's a process.
Whatever you chose, always post pics of your work. That is not an option! >:D
Unless of course your work is so hideous it makes women scream, men quake with fear, and gives children terrible nightmares. But you really should post. The depth and breadth of knowledge here is amazing, there are tons of great bowyers who love helping others, and most of us have turned out some serious clunkers and misc disasters, which is how you learn.
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I will try to post pics. Actually just finished roughing out my second working bow. Didn't think it was gonna make it and almost gave up on it but went ahead and finished and that first arrow I sent down range totally changed my mind. It's pulling #60 @ 29". 66 NTN. I screwed up on the handle so I couldn't cut an arrow shelf and didn't think I'd like off the hand but it sure is smooth. Might have to make one that bends through the handle now.
Biggest lesson learned this time was how to sharpen my scraper. That made a huge difference.
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I couldn't cut an arrow shelf and didn't think I'd like off the hand but it sure is smooth.
Make a shelf out of leather, wood (golf tees work good), or bone/antler and attach it to the bow. I have never cut a shelf into a bow, just add one on if I need it.
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Make a shelf out of leather, wood (golf tees work good), or bone/antler and attach it to the bow. I have never cut a shelf into a bow, just add one on if I need it.
I've got a couple of pieces of bacote so I may try to cut a small piece to use as a shelf with that. I'm going to try to get some pics posted up. I'm a bit concerned with the bow not bending in the handle. I took a pic of the tiller and it looks decent but with the length and it being red oak I'm not extremely confident in it. I backed it with paper but I'm thinking of removing that and putting silk on. It took a lot of set also. Probably at least 2 inches.