Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => HowTo's and Build-a-longs => Topic started by: soy on April 18, 2012, 10:52:41 pm

Title: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 18, 2012, 10:52:41 pm

Hi all i did mot want to tie up the nows section rambling on about my trials on this one hope y'all enjoy/have helpful hints and criticism  :D
Some of this is a repeat from the trade section so please bear with me


We will start with the wood it is walnut that i had cut as a dead standing tree so no trees were harmed in the making of this bow ;D it was rotted and bug riddled as i have stated i had to go down ring by ring to get to undamaged wood to the tune of 28-30 years worth
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-24977-1334722703767.jpg)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 18, 2012, 11:03:25 pm

The farther i went the more character it developed
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-2754-1334722764297.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-20615-1334722822501.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-3259-1334722883360.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-7885-1334723031925.jpg)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: criveraville on April 19, 2012, 01:28:05 am

A snake skin would look good on that bow :o

That wood is purty!

Cipriano

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 19, 2012, 03:13:50 am

The first thing that came to my mind when i was thinking about a trade bow was a raw hide backed walnut with carp skins(inspired by Keenan's carp backed bow of the year) and as luck would have it about that time boath turtle Creek and legionnaire had said items up for trade...what timing ...so i get the raw hide soak it for a few hours its ready than i notice i cant find my ace bandages but have no fear i have plastic wrap ...i joint tbe edges aply tb3 to the bow than do the same to the rawhide slapem wrap em and come back in 45 min to take the wrap off and no good!everything is wet and glue coverd with nothing sticking so i take it all apart (with a few kind words)wash it up and wait a day ...after getting some ace bandages, and some coaching from gun doc i find i did a few things wrong 1the temp needs to be above 50°f 2 dab the access water off and 3have some patients .......so after round 2 i claim victory

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 19, 2012, 03:30:27 am

I got the edges trimmed and let it dry. I than filed and sanded the edges about 1/8"in around the whole thing so it had smooth transition lines for the skins
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-24493-1334723080167.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-1078-1334723125063.jpg)


Have no fear those are not air bubbles just rough spots on the surface  ;)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 19, 2012, 06:15:20 am

Now that my first raw hide backing job is done i cut nocks in and in doing so broke the sholder of one side on the bottom and did such a good job of it i had to shorten the that limb witch is fine as it is the bottom. I decided to install the tip overlay early to prevent this from happening again using a method i had seen on one of gordon's build along 's....i used jamacian ironwood as the colors fit rite onto my intended color palate and os harder than a hundred dollars worth of jaw breakers, and than on to tillering  :)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-24618-1334723223697.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-17525-1334723165151.jpg)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 19, 2012, 11:38:04 am

For whatever reason the pics. Of the tillering process save all but disappeared but let me assure you that this was a challenge for me as the top limb is farther forward comes im at am angle and is twisted :o so full draw looks somewhat strange  ::) but at this point i am close to my desired weight and they are at the same distance so i will leave well enough alone
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-15484-1334635218438.jpg)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: bubby on April 19, 2012, 09:03:29 pm

you did a great job on a tuff stave soy, Bub

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 20, 2012, 12:22:38 am

Next its on to the carp...here are the steps i took 1 sand down raw hide with 60 grit to ruff it up 2 wipe it down with accitone to remove anything that prohibit good adhering 3 repeat process on the carp skins 4apply tb3 to both surfaces 5place skins and rub air and access glue out and continue to do so until the glue sets as opposed to wraping save one part i wrapped with string around an irregular spot.
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-22029-1334723313823.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-17527-1334723270745.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-10295-1334723357710.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-10030-1334723501516.jpg)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 20, 2012, 01:29:49 am

Now up to this point i thought things went quite well, and than BAM things went south for reasons i was not shure and after consulting expert advise from a panel of bowyers whom shal remain nameless for the time being, i have narrowd down to a couple missed or wrong steps1 i shuld have soaked the skins in water prier to applying 2the use of accitone is not recommended and 3the string may have been to tight. But what the result was is the skin (melted)and separated from the middle out witch than forced me to remove the center skin.
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-23787-1334723561208.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-25249-1334723853852.jpg)

It was really to bad for two reasons one it looked really cool imho and two the only other skin i had was to small to fill in the one i removed
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-20898-1334723803748.jpg)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 20, 2012, 03:15:07 am

But as luck should have it not two days prior a friend of mine picked me up a few tanned wdb skins so i removed the other center skin cut the snake in half put the middle tward the outsides so the diamond pattern got larger as it moves away from the handle making it merge to the carp
.....blessing in disguise ...as it brings another somthing to the party ;) i did npt water soak the snake and used the same "petting " technique as pd calls it to remove air and access tb3.

 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-20613-1334723885233.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-8024-1334723955654.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-25097-1334283935134.jpg)

I used black linnen thread to cover the joints as one was slightly higher than the other

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 20, 2012, 03:27:09 am

Looks kinda cool not what i had planned but all things happen for a reason...keep in mind first time with carp, snake, and rawhide ...
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-22439-1334284010662.jpg)

I had made quite a mess with the glue on me and the bow after scraping and sanding to fix my mess i ended up loosing 5#of draw weight  >:(
Now that the backing is on time to adress the next project on tbe list
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-11424-1334635067619.jpg)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 20, 2012, 05:55:56 am

Well the answer to that is mop  :o mother of pearl, it was not as hard to work with as i first suspected nippers,  coaping saw, file, and sand paper.first i drilled out the center of the knot you so it was round, measured it for a rough oppening, and shaped to fit and than i glued it in with epoxy. Turned out to be the first inlay job that i was happy with :laugh:
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-14464-1334906143214.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-20365-1334906277091.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-4795-1334906322740.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-1159-1334907089807.jpg)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 20, 2012, 06:01:26 am

And than wala  >:D
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-25402-1334724007867.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-19051-1334724041545.jpg)


Kinda looks like a moonlight night  ???

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: randman on April 20, 2012, 03:43:49 pm

That sure is a beauty Soy. Some guys going to be proud to own that one! Specially knowin what went into it. You got my address don't ya? ;)

Quote

Kinda looks like a moonlight night

Sounds like a good name for it.

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: Adam on April 20, 2012, 03:49:50 pm

That's a great idea.  I really like the look of the mother of pearl against the dark walnut.  Way to turn an obstacle into a work of art!

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 20, 2012, 07:33:49 pm

As im dragging this along i may show how i do a Flemish twist string, i decided to go multy color on thos to try to incorporate most of the colors, as with most of my strings i am doing a 14 strand d-50 with 16 strand ends...or is it b-50...eather way here it goes
First after picking my colors i take the lingth of the bow and add 10 inches on each end for the loops and than minus one inch so in this case 68.5+20-1=87.5. The string shuld at the end be in the ball park of around 4 inches short of your ntn measurement, i take 1 inch off the top and twist the remaining 3 down

 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-3303-1334956852088.jpg)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 20, 2012, 07:56:09 pm

I pound in 2nails the designated distance apart and wind the first 5 strands on tie off on the nail and than wind the next color on two strands for a total of seven, i than heat beez wax and coat the string top, bottom, end to end.
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-1159-1334956885642.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-12594-1334956915423.jpg)
Once waxed i take a scissor and cut the ends inside the nails.
I than take hold of the strings in the center and strip from center to end 10-12 times onthe each side to work the wax in(it will get hot)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-15418-1334956946419.jpg)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: fishfinder401 on April 20, 2012, 10:00:16 pm

so,  any clue to what they weight or draw length?

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 21, 2012, 02:26:47 am

Quote from: fishfinder401 on April 20, 2012, 10:00:16 pm

so,  any clue to what they weight or draw length?

??? ???


String or bow fishey?

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 21, 2012, 02:37:12 am

Once i get the wax workedin i lay in a 10" piece of string for the end loop
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-9789-1334956976491.jpg)

I than repeat the process with the other colors, so i end up with 2,7strand bundles in this case bundle 1 has 5tan and 2 black and bundle 2 has 5 brown and 2 green, in addition each end has 1-10" strand of yellow

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 21, 2012, 03:26:22 am

I than take both bundles in my left hand side by side
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-20275-1334906357866.jpg)
I am holding both at one end at the end of the 10"yellow. I begin with the bundle on the bottom or the one closest to me how ever you are holding them, i begin reverse twisting to me (counter clockwise )until just tight and than flip or place would be a better word the twisted bundle over the other than take the next and do the same repeat the process and it will start to look like this
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-12850-1334906398606.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-18217-1334906535342.jpg)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 21, 2012, 03:55:05 am

The loop im working on now is to be the bottom, i like to have a snug fit on the bottom nock to do this i continue the reverse twisting until i have maby 1.5" done than i fold it end to end (the twisted part) to make a loop for fitting, slide it on the nock and eather add more, or take a few twists out to achieve desired fit
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-9747-1334906444415.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-21936-1334906660169.jpg)
When im happy with the fit i complete the end by aligning the opposite strings together the tan and black tag end goes with the brown and green main line and vice versa, so 4 become 2
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-467-1334906491207.jpg)
 

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 21, 2012, 05:49:52 am

Adn than holding loop in left hand continue the reverse twist and flip until you reach the end of the tag end.at that point take the top pf the loopand fold it to tje end of the twist and secure with a clamp or similar device
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-17494-1334906576249.jpg)
At this point untangle the two bundles, lay them side by side to tje other end and repeat the steps from the first loop but gor this one the loop must ne larger so it can slide part way down the limb.
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-27952-1334906701960.jpg)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 21, 2012, 06:15:37 am

You may have to work some of the build up you make down tward the other end of the string, as you reach the end of this tag make shure to have an even spread to the twist build up through the entire string.i than hook that loop to my vice handle and twist the string clockwise 10-15 turns throughout the entire string, than remove the clamp twist clockwise a fiew more times so the ends dont unravel, pull the string tight with one hand, and with the other work the wax in similar to what you did earlier
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-16896-1334906614124.jpg)
You shuld at this point have a string...unless i have completely confused you in witch case i am sorry ...by twisting clockwise you will shorten the string and counter clockwise lengthen witchever you need to do to fit the bow :)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 21, 2012, 06:32:16 am

Now to serve, i will let the pics do most of tje talking here, i make mine 10" centerd over the arrow pass, first i strip the access wax using a piece of string wrapped 1time around and pull
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-1192-1334906744049.jpg)
Than on to it
 
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-18340-1334906783516.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-25044-1334906824447.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-27721-1334906860556.jpg)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 21, 2012, 06:43:53 am

(http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-12941-1334906954938.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-1335-1334907001737.jpg)
 (http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j380/thadsoy/photobucket-23077-1334907041371.jpg)
There you have it, just apply a nock and you are done...hope it helped more than it hurt  ???
I hope to jave final pics.up and it shipped within the next week i really hope that xxxxxxx likes /enjoys it :-\

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: coaster500 on April 21, 2012, 12:32:23 pm

Persistence won that war soy.....  love the dual skin recovery and the way you went at a problematic stave...  Great job!!

That bow would fit right in here in San Luis Obispo County. I could tell everybody that the skins came off a mutant that got to close to Diablo Nuclear Power Plant???

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: Pat B on April 21, 2012, 12:37:23 pm

Nice build along, Soy. Great looking "Surf & Turf " backing too!  8)

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: fishfinder401 on April 21, 2012, 01:20:15 pm

Quote from: soy on April 21, 2012, 02:26:47 am

Quote from: fishfinder401 on April 20, 2012, 10:00:16 pm

so,  any clue to what they weight or draw length?

??? ???


String or bow fishey?

bows draw weight or draw length

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: soy on April 24, 2012, 08:44:40 pm

The bows weight and dl are what xxxxxxxxx requested  ;) witch is about 3xlighter than yours  >:Dsorry fishy got to keep something in the dark ;D

Title: Re: battle of a trade bow build
Post by: fishfinder401 on April 24, 2012, 10:02:30 pm

 :'(  so if its 3x lighter its around what 200lbs ::)