Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: k-hat on April 07, 2012, 11:02:39 am
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I posted about this fence post i found about a year ago i was gonna use for firewood (even tried to cut a slice off with my hand saw . . . see below), and a couple months ago i decided to take a closer look, and yup it was osage.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/bodarkpost1.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/bodarkpost2-1.jpg)
So i began the process of cutting away all the rotten stuff and found this underneath:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/bodarkpostcleand2.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/bodarkpostcleand.jpg)
She's about 2-1/4" wide down to about 1-1/2" at the end, 30" long. Do you see a bow in there?!?! She's screaming for it >:D
I considered finding another billet, but i really wondered if i could rip down center and splice for a symmetrical character bow. Now, how do you mark a clear line on something as wavy and dark as this? My solution was i put my pencil on a roll of masking tape at the center, then spun the tape to make a center line all around, pulled the tape off, and repeated till i had about 30+ inches of centermarked tape. Then i applied the tape down the center, being careful to follow the natural grain of the wood, Presto!
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120326_001.jpg)
Now to the bandsaw!
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120326_002.jpg)
This is what i envisioned when i first saw her raw beauty . . .
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120326_003.jpg)
Now there are some problem areas, a borer at the handle section:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120330_003.jpg)
Solution? I conveniently laid out my splice so it came off ;D
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120330_001.jpg)
Did I mention this is my first splice? Well, this is my first splice. You more experienced folks will probly say it needs some work, but I'm ok with it ;)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120331_005.jpg)
** You can see at the bottom of the above pic, and the right of the below pic where my saw reached down when i thought she was firewood. This is gonna work into the fades and may be completely gone, or left as a beauty mark and reminder of where she came from (as if she needs any more of that)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120403_001.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120403_005.jpg)
Here is how the splice looks after working down some of the wood on the belly and the last ring on the back . . .
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120406_002.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120406_003.jpg)
I went with a W splice for maximum gluing surface, even though it's more difficult.
There's a little of the old ring left on parts of the W, but it's gonna be a stiff handle so no biggie.
Here's where she stands now, you can see i induced a touch of backset in the handle with the splice, the rest of the curves are au naturale!!!
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120407_001.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120407_003.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/120407_005.jpg)
What i'm shooting for is a D cross-section bow (somewhat anyway), she's gonna be about 1-1/16" for most of the width in the limbs.
Well, that's all for now. I'll post more as she progresses.
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Forgot to mention i'm gonna fill in those gaps at the V's in the splice with some tiny wedges and glue to hopefully compensate for any weakness there.
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Thanks for all the details and pics, K-hat. It's lookin great, so far. Keep us posted as you proceed. It looks like a success story in the making... :laugh:
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Thats looking to be a bow,keep the postings going and good luck. ' Frank
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I made bow from 100 year old posts never spliced though. Looks SWEET so far. I'd just fill the handle gaps with saw dust and supper glue. I know you don't have to but a couple times when I built billet bows after glue up I drilled 2 ,1/8 inch holes in my joint and supper glued dowl pin in it.
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thats lookin sweet so far 8)
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Talk about 'going to the mat" on a project. You are gonna wrestle a bow outa that post come what may!
Heck, I am starting to think you might just save the sawdust and find a way to tiller that into a bow, too! Oh yeah, you get my vote of "Scrounger of the Year". Could someone send this guy a nice stave?
Keep posting progress!
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Looks real good man! I've done the same thing before, even took BOM last June with the bow. Yours looks alot like mine just not quite as dark. Ill bet you get a SWEET shooter from her ;) Good luck :)
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looking good bro.keep up the good work.
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this is the best thread ive seen in a few weeks (sorry guys).
ive seen bows made from old doors, beams from old warehouses, flag poles, and ship keelsons. but not from an old rotten pole
kudos hope it turns out to be one of those, "holy crap" bows ;D
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thank guys, really appreciate all the comments and encouragement, I'll look back on it when i start doubting myself!
JW, you are crackin me up! :laugh: :laugh: FYI i did harvest some nice straight elm recently that i split on thursday, got 16 nice straight staves all nicely (and naturally) reflexing as we speak. come summer it's gonna be on like donkey kong!!
I really do hope this turns out. I've been sitting on the fence as to which of my current projects will be my TG trade bow, so i decided that the one i wanted to keep the most would be the one. Well, that's this one, provided it makes the draw length and weight of the recipient ;)
Will, I do believe you are the one that inspired this one! I saw that last year and was blown away, and decided that when my skills were up to snuff I'd find one and get after it. Well, i found one anyway ;) (actually have another that's about 80" long and bent sideways with a huge knot and gnarly, can't wait!! 8) )
Crooketarrow: This one's gotta be about that old. I live in a subdivision that was once pasture, i found this on the edge where they left a grove of trees. The fence was nowhere to be found. I LOVE the history that's bound up in these things. The other one i have has been through flood and fire, and who knows what else.
Alrighty, I'll post when i've got some more done on her. Thanks for viewing!
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Makes you wonder how long that old post was sitting there patiently waiting for you? Might be a good ame for the bow...."Patience".
find another post from that line and you ccould call her "Persistence". Be a nice pair to draw to!
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Dang It!
A Cliff Hanger!!! :)
Looking forward to your Progress k-hat!
-gus
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Good suggestions JW, i'll definitely keep those in mind, though i have lookd for more in the same area with no luck ::)
Thanks Gus, hopefully won't leave you hanging too long. Hope to have'r on the tree in the next couple of days ;D
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Man that is looking real good........you give me inspiration from this future bow. I hope it turns out awesome.
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If the post was debarked and something aplayed to it so it wonuld'nt rot who know how long it could last. Or if it's planted with the bark on (most were) so it did'nt check I know for a fact it will last over 100 years.
Thats the way the corner post I used was planted. I had a friend I huntered on his farm in KS. He said his granddad had planted it 105 years before. The post was big ,probley 16 inchs. He pulled it out for me with the promass I build him a bow. Which I did he killed a 142 ,10 point with it before his death.
Split like butter all well seasoned OSAGE dose. I got 6 staves from it. It was really dark all the way through. One did'nt make a bow all the rest were straight knot free. Sweet staves all the 5 bows were sweet also.
Wish I 'd kept one but you know how it go's with bows sold ,traded even gave one away.
If you do your part I'm sure it will make a really sweet shooting bow. GOOD LUCK
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Finally got'r ready for tiller and here is the first look, not bad!
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/Fenceunbraced.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/Fencestrung.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/Fence14.jpg)
Bottom pic is at 15" at about 35#. The second pic the tips got cut off in editing, but they were nicely lined up there.
Right limb looks stiff midlimb, left looks like it may be there as well. she's reflexed in the handle splice, does it look to y'all like the handle is straightened out a bit in the third pic? Maybe just my eyes playin tricks.
I'm slow, so i'll hafta stare at it awhile before i get to scrapin, but now i gotta go get ready for work :( I'll revisit in the morning.
Any input is welcome ;D
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This is going to be a cool bow. With the wood that old I bet you end up taking a lot off to make it a shooter. I can't wait to see it finished.
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Looking real sweet! Time to get her braced with a short string.
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Thanks mullet, me too. I don't know about a lot, I'm tryna make 55+ pounds. She may be too narrow for it, but we'll see.
Rand, low brace is what i was thinking too after staring at it several times. Crazy thing is i haven't done anything besides floor tiller and put the string on! Probly never have that happen again ::)
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It's lookin good! Can't wait for this one! It looks so much like mine is crazy :) it's gonna be a great bow for ya! I can feel it ;)
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Ya know Will, i kinda thought that too! Maybe they're distant cousin staves ;) ::)
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K-Hat,
I love threads like this and from your very first picture to the last - that is taking on a very pleasing shape (especailly seeing from whence she came!) :)
Good luck and am looking forward to seeing the finished article.
Cheers
Ev
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Thanks Ev, i'm lookin forward to the finish too . . . just a little ;)
I did run into a little problem. I fine tuned the limbs a little this morning and was tryna put her on a low brace. When i put my stringer on and pulled up on the handle, i noticed I could feel the handle bending in my hand :(. For the riser I used a piece of the original post that had some "bark" on the outside cuz i thought it would look cool, but it looks like the underlying wood just isn't stiff enough even though it looks plenty healthy. Sooooo, gonna remove that one and glue on a beefier riser and some overlays on the side to build up and stiffen the handle.
Well, with the time i have available it'll probly be next weekend before i get'r on the tiller block again. :-\
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Makes me want to start walking old fence rows!!!!!
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finally got'r re-risered and very low braced:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/fenceunbraced2.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/fence18.jpg)
done some tweaking. She's now at 35#@18". Shootin for 55-60@29 to settle in at 50-55#.
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Not too shabby thus far Kevin!
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Yes Sir!
Starting to look like a bow...
Is that a hinge trying to develop mid limb on the left side?
Or is that a feature?
-gus
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There's a kink right there. It had me worried at first as well. I left it thicker and i think it's fine, but i'll look'r over a little more before i go forward. Haven't stared at it much yet ;)
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Thanks Chris and Gus. I'm kinda liking the profile too!
It looks like i'll have to do a little heat correcting after all to get the string aligned, it's running just outside of the handle. I see a couple of stiff spots just outside of the knot on the left and same distance out on the other limb that i want to loosen up some before I bend it anymore.
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Good luck with this one! We only have pine fenceposts here.....
It can be tricky to tell exactly whats going on in deflexed areas. To me it looks like the inner left limb is a little stiff. When you look at the inner right limb it has moved when drawn but the inner left has stayed stiff. My best guess is thats why the deflexed spot looks a little hingey.
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Thanks Mike, that was another area I was looking at that i wasn't sure about. The area just left of the knot is actually bending some after a second look, but i do need to loosen up that area just outta the fade. But that's gonna hafta wait...
Working on it a little at lunch today, and the riser started coming undone at the glue line. The problem i've been battling is this: When i spliced the handle with backset, it left the belly needing to be flattened for the riser. So i flattened it as little as possible, but it still wound up about a 1/16" thinner in the center than at the beginning of the fades. It is still thicker than the limb just outside the fades, but it is wanting to flex at the splice. I hoped the riser would reinforce it enough, but it's not happening. Lessons learned the hard way on first splice :-[ In retrospect, I think it would have been better to use some wedges to attach the riser without thinning the handle (or just have plenty of handle meat, couldn't do that on this one without loosing a lot of limb mass).
So, my plan is this now (you know i'm hardheaded n stubborn by now):
1. go on and reduce the thickness on the fades and inner limbs as needed
2. reglue the riser
3. Flatten the sides of the handle area and glue overlays on the sides overlapping the handle and riser
4. drill 3/16" holes and glue dowel pins through side of handle and riser to give a solid attachment and bring it all together
5. wrap in cordage set in glue
6. punch something if it comes undone >:D
kinda like this:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/handleplan.jpg)
Dunno if it's the best thing, but it's the best i've thought of so far, besides making it a kid's bow ::)
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Dowell pins through actually weaken it Kevin I have experineced that first hand........twice. Who is hardheaded? I suggest cutting it apart and trying again. I have even wrapped heavily glue soaked cord around bad joints and they still pop free. Joint repairs almost always come back and bite you if you dont do them right.
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If the core is thinner than the fades then you are going to have problems with a glue-on handle no matter what you try to do.
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Thanks for the input Chris and Gordon. I left extra meat in the fades so I wouldn't start them out too thin, so i think i can remove enough to get all that fleshed out right and the core will be the right thickness to take the stress outta the joint. I may yet try to separate the splice and redo it as Chris suggests with a different glue this time. I think i used the right epoxy, but maybe not.
I've seen both opinions on the dowel inserts. I think Baker swears by em and Comstock swears at em ::). It probably has a lot to do with making sure you put the dowel through the neutral plane. Theoretically that won't weaken it. Not that I know how to zero in on that zone and do it right! Probly should leave that one alone as suggested. I still plan on putting overlays on the sides once i get the fades workd out just because it'll make me feel better, and make a nicer grip.
All in all, if she comes in too light, I guess i'll reluctantly have to keep her ;)
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If the handle area is too thin not to bend by itself you will struggle to just glue a thick piece straight on. In fact it just won't work - it will always pop off.
The simplest way to fix that may work is instead of gluing one thick piece on for a riser make up lams of 1/8 thickness. This way each piece isn't just a super stiff 'lump' and can bend. Like I said this may work.
The other option that will work is to cut your splice along the gluelines and seperate the limbs. Once seperated cut a kerf into teach handle section of the limb at the same plane in both. Sand the insides of the cut and make a powerlam that can be inserted into these cuts. Glue them in. Then recut/finish your splices. Reglue splice. Reglue riser section (still best made out of thin 1/8 thick pieces instead of a lump!). The powerlam needs to be thick enough to allow no bend into the fade area.
Hope this helps.
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Thanks Mike, I shoulda known better from the getgo. In retrospect if ida spliced it straight instead of with backset in the handle, there would be plenty of meat and no problem. this one's teaching me some lessons for sure. I'm gonna thin the limbs down to relieve all the stress on the handle and go on and build it up. May do the lam think like you're talkin, dunno. Was tryna push it too much to my desired draw weight instead of letting it settle where it will.
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Do the lams but make them thin !
It will work just like the natural grain of wood !
Guy
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I agree with Guy. If it were mine I'd glue a couple thin laminations on the belly side and one on the back. Then I'd build up the rest of the handle with leather. Come to think about it, just drop that one off at my shop and pick up the one you have there. I'll take that gnarly old post and "dispose" of it for you. ;)
George
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What someone agrees with me that is not allowed !
Unheard of !
Oh well its all fun !!!!
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Well folks, been almost a year but i've resurrected this one from the corner. As you see above i had some splice/grip issues. I Separated the limbs, cleaned it up and respliced it, then cut some 1/16 lams and layered them as a handle overlay to build up and reinforce the grip. Touched up tiller a bit and here she is at the moment. So far so good ;D
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/1021adb1-36fa-4193-b040-36ef4dcdcd16.jpg)
My plan is to leave those outers with the stiff/flipped look so it's almost a lever bow. I figure that'll give her better cast since she's probly gonna come in under the weight i'd like. At this point i'll settle for 30# if she survives, but i'd like about 50 or so. If she makes the weight i REALLY want, she'll be my TG swap bow.
Scale shows 30@18" with the stretchy nylon cord, so i think i'm on track for my desired weight :)
Critique is welcomed/expected ;)
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BTW, thanks George, Guy, Mike, and Chris for the guidance on getting this corrected, hope i make it worth yer while ;)
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Lookin good! Glad to see this one alive again ;) I like how you used the new Osage for the handle. Seems like I've seen that before somewhere ::) ;) I am workin on another fencepost bow or two my self again. One spliced and one spliced to a piece of yew :o
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Thanks Will. It has a nice little 5-curve-ish profile, but it tricks my eyes a bit tryna see stiff spots and such. I think she's ready for a real string and a low brace, i'll dbl check in the morn and give it a go. Gonna put some golden sage on the tips too, the overlays i have on now i realized are likely not gonna hold up.
Didju say an osage post spliced to a piece of yew?? ??? Can't wait to see that!!!
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Looking good bud. Can't wait to see that finished. :)
George
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I know what you mean man, just go slow. It looks like your on the right track. I built one similar a while back and put new Osage for the handle and tips. Here's a link if you want to check it out http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,25735.30.html
And yeah I'm workin on an Osage/Yew. I got it floor tillered this afternoon. Should have it shootin before to long... Got a lot of irons in the fire though... Anyway, I'm real excited to see how yours turns out! :)
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Will h. Are you a luthier. That looked like a nice fiddle back maple back
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Gard darnit, you made me go split a perfectly good fence post. Now I wish I hadnt, its a really big lazy "S" when the billits are put together. Good luck bud, watching this one.
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Well i've done a little work on her and she's coming along nicely. Had to drop the weight quite a bit to get some stress of the handle area and get the fades a bit fadier. Anyhow, here she is at 20". Looks like i'll hit at about 40# with her. She has a little deflex area on the right that makes the tiller look off, but i think i do need to take a little off the 6" inside of that deflex to get it bending just a touch more (that area is slightly reflexed):
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/resurrectionat20.jpg)
Right now she has 26" of limb, not all of it working. I don't think i oughta pike her to get weight up. It's tempting but I hate to push a bow like this. Proly just oughta let'r be what she'll be ;)
Opinions and critique are welcome/expected :)
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I've got some string alignment to work on, so i may just try to remove that deflex kink while i'm at it. There's no knot there or anything.
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Lookin good man :)
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Looking real good,maybe a little more bend a few inches out from the right fad to close to mid limb.Looks nice so far. :) :) Will got another fence post finished tillered yesterday evening,they make some mighty fine bows.Dense and well seasoned, just the way I like wood to be. :)
Pappy
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Thanks Will and Pappy. I hope to have her shooting this weekend. I see what you're talking about. I know it's moving, but hard to tell if it's bending smoothly in that area. I'll stare at the pics a while before i proceed.
Even at 40# i expect her to be a sweet shooter, esp with those lever-ish tips. I think she'll have good cast for the weight. I was hoping to make her my TG trade bow, but she's gonna be WAY too underweight for that. Maybe i'll get a light weight pulling recipient for the PA trade and send'r that way ;), otherwise i guess i'll HAVE to keep her >:D
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I agree that it should shoot good, the one I'm workin on has a similar profile. I took some weight off her yesterday, got it down to 45 @ 27. Just where I like em ;) those posts sure make a good dense durable hunting bow ;) Buried Gold I tell ya!!!
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Well she's nearing completion. Time to do some finish work. I may yet touch up the tiller, may even recurve the tips a touch. She really zings my light arrows, and the heavies go with some serious punch. Came in right around 40#@28". Here she is now:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd374/k-hat/resurrectionfulldraw.jpg)
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That bottom limb is lookin kinda hingy... I think I would push some bend back into the fades a bit more. All in all I think it's great you got that thing shootin :) you could always flip the tips after you work on the tiller a bit to bring the weight up.
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yeah that spot has given me fits. There's a deflex kink right there where it looks hingy. I verified and reverified the thickness with calipers to be sure it wasn't a thin spot. It actually looks better from the other side. The fades are bending more than they look due to the reflex out of the handle. I may push some more bend into them though since the splice is holding up fine. That was my primary concern.
Take a look at the other pics and then the full draw and tell me if you still feel the same about it. I'm getn kinda crosseyed lookin at it so much :o.
thanks for the input Will.
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Awesome! Whoed a thunkit! Some of you guys could make a silk purse out of a sows ear :o
Knapper
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Yeah I see what ur talkin bout. Id say if it hasn't taken set in that area you'll probably be fine. Congrats on makin that post shoot man! That sure is awesome brotha :)
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Cooooooooool! Nice job dude!
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Thanks Arrowind, Knapper. This is what poor bowyers do, build bows outta scraps ;)
Thanks Will, I'll keep lookin. I don't think it has taken any additional set in that area. I'm really excited that she's made it this far, i was so concerned about the splice not holding up at full draw. I'll post her again when she's all finished up. Who knows, maybe I'll draw somebody in the swap who WANTS a 40#er 8)
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If you get my name K-hat, I'd take that 40 pounder any day. That's a real fine bow made from scraps. Being from a 100 yr old fence post makes it vintage from the get go right?