Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Pappy on August 22, 2007, 06:26:03 am

Title: Tell me what you think
Post by: Pappy on August 22, 2007, 06:26:03 am
I thought after the Twins I would work on a good straight piece of wood ,so I picked one out ,it had a little wrinkle in one limb ,but I didn't think there was much to it,Well turned out worse than I had thought.I got it braces last night but it has been a struggle.I have some pictures from one side view then the other,look and tell me what you think,keep in mind how the to limb is dipping and
diving. ???
    Pappy

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Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Pappy on August 22, 2007, 06:29:31 am
It has really be a bugger to tller,I have it out to 36@14 now,just real hard to see. :)I will have some more pictures in a day or 2.
   Pappy

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Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: a finnish native on August 22, 2007, 06:47:19 am
I would take wood off the midlimb and towards the tips on all of them. Hard to say without an unbraced profile..
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: DBernier on August 22, 2007, 07:23:47 am
Pappy, the limb with the wiggles looks a little stiff at brace, but one of my BL bows and especially my wife's Osage bow are the same. Then at full draw they are near perfect. I guess what I would do is work on wiggle limb and keep checking it. It just makes sense that wiggle limb will be stiffer and need more scraping. The other looks straight forward to bring it into compliance with the other. Sure will be another nice one.

Dick
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Pappy on August 22, 2007, 07:24:45 am
Thats kind of what I had thought,I will get an unbraced,today.
   Pappy

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Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Pappy on August 22, 2007, 07:25:41 am
Sorry though them were unbraced,I will get some.
   Pappy
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: DBernier on August 22, 2007, 07:47:06 am
That last photo looks real good. About 12 inch's out on the right limb is where I would very gingerly scrape it on that bottom bump. You know I always wondered is, in "bending moment" is the wood  stronger at the knot or straight grain section. I have never seen one snap at a knot. Maybe the fibers are really compressed at that point and more resistant to bending. Well live and learn.

Dick
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: GregB on August 22, 2007, 08:41:56 am

Pappy, you and I have had problems with these dipping type of limbs in the past. We've tried to straighten them using dry heat prior to tillering...sometimes with success and sometimes ending up with a crack. Some of these limbs that have an extreme dip of either reflex or deflex in a short distance as this one does are nearly impossible to have them end up with that perfect limb sweep that you can get with say a clean piece of hickory. I think the challenge is to try and get those sections of the limb "working" evenly with the rest of the bow, and not worry about the "perfect" looking tiller at full draw.  :)

Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: DanaM on August 22, 2007, 08:49:19 am
Pappy i think yer a glutton for punishment ;D You really like dem crooked ole sticks eh ;)
BTW its looking good to me
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: cowboy on August 22, 2007, 08:53:25 am
I'm enjoying this one Pappy, a little refresher that I needed (have lots of character staves leaning) keep the pic's and explanation's coming :)
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Pappy on August 22, 2007, 09:05:19 am
I think you are right Dick,seems if you just don't get carried away on the scraping on the hard
spots they will work out OK.I just need to remember my rule,go slow and easy.Greg I know what you are saying,I though when I picked this one I could get it out but as usually I was wrong,Now
I have to live with it.I got it working a little last night after these pictures were taken,Got it
to 14 in. and it is looking better.I will get some shots of it at 14 and some unbraced pictures
also today and post in the morning.I need to get the outer limbs working a little more don't
yall think. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: George Tsoukalas on August 22, 2007, 10:33:50 am
Pappy, the tillering of such a stave is difficult. You have to let you eyes trace and imaginary line representing the tiller right through the limb. Jawge
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: George Tsoukalas on August 22, 2007, 10:36:56 am
Looks  like  neither of the limbs is bending much mid limb on. It's good that you gave it a day to think about the tiller. Jawge
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: possum on August 22, 2007, 10:42:26 am
If you think about it, we measure straight from grip to tip but with wavy limbs they don't go straight.  But if you were to "straighten" them there would be more wood therefore causing it to be stronger and thus stronger.

possum
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Pappy on August 22, 2007, 10:57:56 am
Good point possum never though of it that way.Jawges you are also right sometimes it is best to just walk away and when you look at it again you see it in a different light. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: DBernier on August 22, 2007, 11:10:45 am
Possom does have a good point. In the end if as George says an imaginary line thru the curves looks good and the tips are working and end up even at 28 inch's, I don't know what more we could ask. I am "far" from an expert with only a dozen bows to my credit but it all comes out in the wash. Just need a slow rinse.   ;)

Dick
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Pat B on August 22, 2007, 12:11:51 pm
Pappy, It looks good to me so far but until you hit full draw you won't know. Those whoop-te-doos can be tricky to visualize and tiller but slow and steady will win this race, I'm confident you will come through.  ;)     Pat.
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Pappy on August 22, 2007, 01:07:18 pm
You know its funny,I don't have much trouble with snakes and curves or holes or even knots
but these woop de do's just wear on me sometimes.Thank for yalls input and I will update as it comes along. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: possum on August 22, 2007, 02:12:52 pm
Woop de do's kick my butt up one end and down the other. :-[  Like Pappy, knots, snakes, no bother to me.  I'm not as efficient as Pappy is is taming them but they don't scare me.  Woop de do's are the devil. >:(  Good luck.  I'll be watching.

possum
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Coo-wah-chobee on August 22, 2007, 02:30:22 pm
               Pappy.....IMO its the tiller pic at full draw that really matters. Whoop-de doos are challengin' aint they ? Agree with Jawge on what he says.......bob
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Pappy on August 23, 2007, 05:56:53 am
Here are some pictures I took while working on it yesterday of the profile and braced and all the way out to 21 inches.it is 46@21 now .I took the pictures from one side and then the other side view so folks could see the difference.One way it looks pretty good and the other it don't.I agree
full draw is really all that matters but getting it there without getting a hinge when you can't see
it is tough.See what yall think about this. :)
   Pappy

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Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Pappy on August 23, 2007, 05:59:42 am
Here it is at 17/18/21 frome both sides,I just flipped it on the board. :)
   Pappy

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Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Pappy on August 23, 2007, 06:03:35 am
Here is the profile when I stopped yesterday.Still standing straight and this morning had 1 1/2 inches of back set in it again.So I guess I ant hurt it much yet. ;D ;D
   Pappy

   


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Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: GregB on August 23, 2007, 02:24:41 pm
Pappy, I agree...I think this is a tougher bow to tiller then your snake bows were(not that they weren't difficult as well). If you look at the "whoop-de-doo" limb while unstrung, it looks like after coming out of the dips the mid and outer limb are slightly deflexed or out-of-level with the other limb. I think this is a result of the natural dips in the limb coming out of the handle 12" or so.

Does it make sense that maintaining that slightly deflexed attitude difference from the other limb during tillering should allow the bow to stay balanced overall??? If you try to counter it by thinning the other limb to "catch up", your "whoop-de-doo" limb will probably actually be somewhat stiffer then what your normal stiffness should be between an upper and lower limb. I'm probably making no sense at all...difficult to put into words!  ;)
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: armymedic.2 on August 23, 2007, 02:40:37 pm
with a snake in a limb like that isn't it more liable to twist with pressure on it?  or is limb twist caused more by stringing it improperly (without stringer) than the woods characteristics?
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: GregB on August 23, 2007, 02:48:51 pm
Quote
with a snake in a limb like that isn't it more liable to twist with pressure on it?  or is limb twist caused more by stringing it improperly (without stringer) than the woods characteristics?

As long as the overall limb doesn't rotate to the side it should be okay. Sections of the limb can as long as those sections are countered by the rest of the limb and the tips are squared or in the same plane with each other. I don't think Pappy has a propellar problem, cause he would quickly take care of that with dry heat and rotating it out.

A slight amount of natural "propellar" usually doesn't cause a problem, although I try and remove it using dry heat early on. ;)
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Badger on August 23, 2007, 04:39:55 pm
Pappy, I like those stiff outer limbs as long as it isnt taking set, if it looks like a little set is starting I just get some more bending limb working down the limb furter, I try to keep at least the last 1/3 of the limb rigid, even a little more if I can get away with it. Steve
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Pappy on August 24, 2007, 05:45:43 am
Greg maybe you can explane what you mean in person this weekend,I can't grasp what you are saying,need to think on it.Steve I have noticed that in some of your bows and that is kind of what I had in mind on this,just with the humps and dips I though I may need to use a little more limb.
I gave it a break yesterday but plan on getting back on it Sat.I will keep yall updated. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: deerstand on August 24, 2007, 09:08:31 am
im kinda new at this ,  and this may be a dumb question, why not just make the stiffer limb with bumps the lower limb. i had to deal with pin holes in a hickory bow, so i left wood around the holes for strenght but it made the limbs stiffer, i simply made that my lower limb.
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Rich Saffold on August 24, 2007, 12:52:34 pm
When I flex the limb when floor tillering I just make sure a section like this moves with the rest of the limb.
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: 8up on August 26, 2007, 01:11:16 pm
I'd be real careful with that limb it looks like it could Explode at any minute  :P ;D Sorry I had to do it
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Pappy on August 27, 2007, 06:34:26 am
Now that is funny 8UP.Sounds like you may have some inside info.Well guys when you work on wood bows it is like I have always said don't get to attached to it and this is a lesson on why. ??? ??? ;) O well back to the drawing board.
   Pappy

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Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: Kviljo on August 27, 2007, 09:46:30 am
Ahh :(

I've wondered a couple of times why you make them bend so much near the handle? To distribute the stress evenly along the whole limb, shouldn't it have a quite exaggerated Holmegård front-profile?

Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: George Tsoukalas on August 27, 2007, 09:51:24 am
Pappy, sorry to see that. jawge
Title: Re: Tell me what you think
Post by: makete on August 27, 2007, 10:12:11 am
Pappy I am so sorry this happened.