Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: soy on March 07, 2012, 07:36:38 pm
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I was tempering +adding a little reflex, and than crack :-\ a fracture across the belly
the question is can i repair this with the string wrap/ super glue, some other repair, or is it doomed? :-[
Thanks for any suggestions
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Pic 1
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2
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Where is it on the limb?
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Adb it is about 1/3of the way up the limb from the fades under a character bump on the belly side
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I made Mississippi Dave a BBO that had a lot of grain islands on the belly. They started popping up just like your crack for no apparent reason. I had him draw the bow to open the cracks, filled them with super glue and gave them a super glue soaked thread wrap like this. The bow is holding up just fine.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/bow%20making/killer4wrap.jpg)
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Wrap it with silk thread and TBIII. It will be fine. It appears you may have tried to bend it to soon. Those swirl areas are REAL buggers to flex outward like that.
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This is on the belly of the bow? If so, there is a picture in one of the BB of cutting out a chunk and gluing in a block replacement.
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wrap it and super glue, should do the trick
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I'm with Bevin. The block is called a Dutchman, perhaps because of the practical ingenuity attributed to the makers of windmill-land drainage.
Jim Davis
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Thanks for the feedback guys ;) i think i am going to try the "dutchman" it would be nice to have that in my bag of tricks...ill let you see the results when i get r done
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It's not really a dutchman but similar. When using this method you need to be SUPER accurate. Both pieces MUST mate perfectly. If it's too tight then you will have problems -too loose and you'll have problems. It's possible to repair bows perfectly well like this just go slow and be very careful.
Wrapping isn't going to fix anything in my opion. Simply hide it a little and maybe stop a few splinters flying if it were to go bang.
Did this happen when you reflexed it while heat treating? If so next time make sure there is less bend on these island areas while reflexing by using shims/clamps. Islands are just waiting to pop out when under tension.
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I pretty much agree with Mike, :(I would probably wrap and give it a try,it really depends on how deep it went ,with humps with knot/swirls in them it is very easy for that to happen,I finely learned not to give it that one last crank of the c clamp and shim it keep the pressure off that spot.Good luck,keep us updated. :)
Pappy
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Pm sent with a link on how to patch soy....wish I could post it here as its an invaluable resource and many wood benefit from it....soooooo without posting it...ill give my hints...its on dean torges site and is labeled patching a bow limb.
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Those plug repairs are a real PAIN to pull off. I gave up on them. As mentioned the fit has to be perfect for it to work. Your issue isnt that bad and my feeling are your risking a good bow that could be easily repaired with a wrap Soybean.
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He would also be risking it by just wrapping it ;)
I say go for it but go slowly! Give yourself a few hours and turn off phones etc so you don't get distracted.I actually did this on a friends bow that had been overdrawn and failed next to a pin knot. I managed to get it perfect and apart from the slightly different colour of the 'plug' the gluelines are perfect.It is more of a cabinet makers skill (hence I guess Dean having it on his website) but with patience/finesse/skill it's more than doable. Sharp chisel and a nice fine saw are necessities. Two steel edges also help to handy if you clamp them on the sides for depth gauges/reference whilst making the saw cuts.
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Tried it all Eric here.
I used the roll over section of my belt sander to cut the dip for the patch, used the same belt radius to mark a piece of scrap for the plug, pretty easy to do.
Dean Torgus advises to not have a perfect, tight fit of ones plug and leave a small gap for urac in the glue joint.
The plug in the picture held up for three years of heavy shooting then the plug developed a cracked that spread into the limb and ended the bows life. I only used a spring clamps pressure to hold the plug in place while the glue set, pressure from a C clamp might give you a glue starved joint.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/100_0024.jpg)
If it were me I would super glue, thread wrap repair method, much easier and a very good fix for this kind of problem.
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Well i did surgery last nite, forgot to take pics.of the process ::) tryd a square patch and i finally broke the seal of the can of urac that has been sitting around hope i got the ratio correct.first time with urac and reparing so cross your fingers hope after a 10good hours to leval off the patch. How long before i dare put strain on it?
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24 HOURS
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Urac reaches it's maximum strenth in 48 hours.
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Good. Glad it worked for you. Keep in mind that knots are weak spots in a limb and heavy reflexing is best left for pristine staves. Jawge
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Do i wait 48 hrs and try to stress it or grind it out and radius the corners?
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I have never waited more than 24 hrs with URAC with any project I used it for. Take it for what its worth.
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So you ars saying it looks good enough to try
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Nope:) But I am saying I always wait 24 hrs with URAC. I told you my fix idea already pal, Im not switching teams half way through the game!
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I hear ya pd.kust a little nervous about this project :(
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I'm not an expert, but I Have done woodwork where you can't see a seam. From what I've read, and what I've done with gunstocks, it looks like your patch looks a bit small, gaps around it, and It appears to be a different wood.
the issue is that the glue, and different wood take pressure differently than the original wood. you can mitigate this by having an extremely thin, can't see with the naked eye, seam, and, at least with heavy recoil rifles, you always use the same wood. I've seen good stocks explode in the rear grip area when a different kind of wood is spliced in.
Because of that, I would be inclined to give the glue the time it takes to get to it's full strength. However long your particular glue takes.
JS
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Sempertiger ...i have heard that to much, and to little of a glue line are noath killers in this app.i think this one is doomed eather way but i agree with you, thanks
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it's never doomed till it breaks, imho :)
And, If it breaks, find something positive with the situation. One of the books i've read says you learn a lot from every bow you make, you learn a lot more from every bow you break.
Also, if you aren't happy with the repair, take your time and cut it out, then redo it. You always have room to repair till it breaks. If it comes out too light, chalk it up to a learning experience, or, do like PD's little experiment. glue a lam of a good compression strong wood to a flatened out belly and, if you desire, glue some kind of working backing, sinew or wood, to the back and retiller to your desired weight.
JS
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Thos one is a little wavey /twisty to lam and i an happy with the repair just not the situation ...just a little gun shy
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My patch is made the way they are supposed to be, like this ), the edges are feathered so they can bend with the bow.
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Unconfuse me please. That patch sure looked like it's on the back of the handle. Your first post said the problem was on the belly, and your first photos looked like the problem was not near the handle... Whassup?
My support for the plug was based only on this being a failure of the belly. If that's the back, I'm now forecasting catastrophic failure.
Jim
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There is nothing wrong with being gun shy, it goes to show that u care about this project enough to be cautious.
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Thanks again all for your help ;D i feel if i try to fix my fix i will end up in a worse boat than before i fixed ??? So in t minus 7hrs i will attempt to brace/shoot cross your fingers hope i dont put an eye out ;) if it fails i move on to plan b witch was going to be in play any way before i the pach job....to be continued 8)
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Well good news :D i braced it, exercised it 50times,and than shot it 50times...so far so good.
now I am not convinced after so little flexing that it is up to the challenge but i have a little more hope than when i started. I will continue to shoot it in if it makes it final tiller !i will keep ya all posted good or bad.once again thank you all for the help and ideas,that is one of the reasons that this is such a great site to be involved with ;)
Thad
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Good news, hope it works out for yall. Never figured why anyone would take this stuff personal,lots of way to skin a cat. ;) :) :) I happen to be blessed with wood so I almost always go with the simple/quick fix or cook with it. :) Man needs fire also. :) Very nice save Soy. :) :)
Pappy
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Soybean, that is the butt uggliest fix I have ever seen. It is verging on offensive, it is so "cosmetically challenged". >:D
So if it works, I'm gonna love it! We primitive archer types just seem to be drawn to the ugly wood, why is that?
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Thanks j dub ??? I think ;D
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If it works, it will be the most beautiful patch ever! Especially in your eyes, right Soy?
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We have got some scraping done on her and have had 4 sessions with50 pulls between sets and so far have shot 100 arrows @26"draw ...have to work it to 28"a few times and at least 50more shots and than it is ready for finishing ...i will post pics than, once again thanks for all the input ;D
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I finally got to shoot ol' patch. And shoot and shoot and shoot some more. That is one fine bow. Thanks Soy! The pic makes the tiller look funny because it was taken from a bit of a rearward angle to show the patch. However I can assure you that the tiller is on and this bow shoots great! Thanks again Soy, Josh
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Yehaw! I love it! Bud Tuggly Brand Patchwork and all!
Shoot 'er 'til she blows, Gun Doc!
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I love it!
Thank You for Sharon Soy!
:)
-gus
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JW- I plan on shooting it until I give out! Then my son can try to wear it out. ;) Josh
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Good news ,great save,Congrats. :)
Pappy