Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: david w. on August 11, 2007, 02:16:52 pm

Title: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: david w. on August 11, 2007, 02:16:52 pm
noooooo!  the riser on my bow popped off.

i was putting on finnish and after th 3rd coat was dry  i was going to measure draw weight.   So i put it in the tillerring tree and the draw weight was all messed up it was about 5 lbs to low  i took the bow off the tillerring tree and the handle was coming off.  i took a knife and cut the glue and the rest off the handle came off.

i called my dad at work and he said we might put screws in or something.

i think it came off because it was drying in the sun and it soffened the glue.

i would post a picture of it put for some reason i cant put upload pictures the program wont let me.

i need help
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: koan on August 11, 2007, 02:58:19 pm
David, when you re-glue it try apoxy or use the wood glue again and wrap it with glue soaked thread where it meets the limb....Brian
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: Pat B on August 11, 2007, 02:58:20 pm
David, What glue did you use?  If your bow bends at all in the handle the handle riser will pop off also.   Pat
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: koan on August 11, 2007, 02:59:13 pm
Ohya....dont put screws in it :o.....Brian
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: medicinewheel on August 11, 2007, 03:05:36 pm


NO SCREWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

frank
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: Justin Snyder on August 11, 2007, 03:05:57 pm
What kind of glue?  I wouldnt put screws in it.  I might drill it and glue in some wood plugs though.  Read this first.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,3044.0.html


There are lots of threads on how to post pictures.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,3017.0.html
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,3017.0.html
Justin
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: Coo-wah-chobee on August 11, 2007, 03:11:21 pm
................ Also go to Jawges site fer good overall info......bob
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: Pat B on August 11, 2007, 04:59:45 pm
This might be a good application for your fly line backing!    Also, like in the thread that Justin posted, try thin strips of graduating lengths for a handle riser. They will flex a bit and will help prevent the riser from popping off.        Pat
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: kra on August 11, 2007, 05:46:11 pm
Bad luck. I think you used a unappropriate glue or the surfaces where not prepared in a proper way - or there was a wrong mixture of glue (if epoxy was used)

I would reglue (after removing the old glue and cleanuing with acetone) with epoxy and after fully cured I would wrap the fadeouts with some sinew, soacked in hide glue.

But do not use screws - there is good chance to violate the back of the bow and, beside the screws, you have to apply glue anyway as you can not screw down the very end of the fade outs.
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: DBernier on August 11, 2007, 05:49:06 pm
I have been using the Urac 185 with a lot of luck. It has some give and repaired two bows with the riser being "popped" off. God no screws at all. Tends to split and put a lot of shear tension on the wood.

Dick
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: david w. on August 11, 2007, 06:11:44 pm
David, What glue did you use?  If your bow bends at all in the handle the handle riser will pop off also.   Pat

i used elmers wood glue.

i also have titebond 2 but i didnt use  it
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: david w. on August 11, 2007, 06:12:24 pm
What kind of glue?  I wouldnt put screws in it.  I might drill it and glue in some wood plugs though.  Read this first.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,3044.0.html


There are lots of threads on how to post pictures.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,3017.0.html
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,3017.0.html
Justin


o ya he said  screws or pegs
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: david w. on August 11, 2007, 06:16:17 pm
this is the first time this has happened.  the riser stayed on while i was tillerring.

i dont know why but i'll fix it.  Ill be gone all next week but i could finish it toinight and tommorrow
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: david w. on August 11, 2007, 06:37:07 pm
here pictures of my bow.

Pat B. yesterday night i made a string out of the flyline backing because string making is fun

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: david w. on August 11, 2007, 06:37:57 pm
the bow pic is 207 kb.  let me resize it and it will be on here later tonight
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: david w. on August 11, 2007, 07:04:19 pm
heres the bow picture

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: George Tsoukalas on August 12, 2007, 08:14:55 am
Thanks, kowechobe. David, no screws. If the handle is bending even a little a screw is not a good  idea.Handles pop off for a variety of reasons. The handle area could be bending. The glue joint does not have an adequate mating of one surface to the other. You can fix it using dowels. Wrap several turns of tape around the drill bit or use a drill stop. Drill from belly to back. Put one in each of the fades (be sure to change the drill depth) and 2 or 3 in the handle and then do a handle wrap using some jute or hemp twine or a substitute. Jawge
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: Justin Snyder on August 12, 2007, 10:57:09 am
It looks a lot like a glue failure.  Is there any splintering, chunks of bow left on the riser, or chunks of riser left on the bow?  It appears to be clean in the picture. It can still be caused by flex in the handle.  Clean it really good.  Then degrease it with acetone.  Sand the handle area (on riser and bow) with 40 grit to rough it up to take the glue.  Degrease it again, then do just like George said.  If you watch the depth of the drill closely like George mentions, and adjust it every time, you can keep the drill from comming out the back of the bow and eliminate the possability of having a splinter rise.  Drill from the riser to within 1/4" of the back but don't go all the way through.  Glue the riser to the bow first so it will stay put while you drill.  Justin
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: Pat B on August 12, 2007, 12:04:26 pm
You are getting the hang of the string thing. Pretty easy, ain't it! ;)    The Elmer's glue is plenty strong enough for holding a riser on your bow...if...the handle area doesn't bend at all when the bow is drawn, the glue mating surfaces were flat and clean, proper clamping pressure is used and the glue isn't stale.
    Pat
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: YewArcher on August 12, 2007, 12:42:52 pm
I would guess that your problem is that your riser is to long and to blockey. The riser should look more like a handel then an actual riser.

Here is an eample of a glued on handel area:


(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d114/yewarcher/Anchient%20europe%20Bows/100_3839.jpg)

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d114/yewarcher/Anchient%20europe%20Bows/100_3836.jpg)

How long is your riser? If it is as long as it looks the onlt way that it would stay on is if all your bend was in the way outer portion of your limbs otherwise the force would just pop it off like it has. You will also want to taper the riser if you choose to leave it that length.

SJM

Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: Trapper on August 12, 2007, 02:01:46 pm
Since I started useing titebond 3 I havent had as much trouble with the handle risers coming off, It stays a little flexible and will give when you bend your bow .      Trapper
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: Robinwho on August 12, 2007, 04:23:35 pm
I would guess that your problem is that your riser is to long and to blockey. The riser should look more like a handel then an actual riser.

Here is an eample of a glued on handel area:


(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d114/yewarcher/Anchient%20europe%20Bows/100_3839.jpg)

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d114/yewarcher/Anchient%20europe%20Bows/100_3836.jpg)

How long is your riser? If it is as long as it looks the onlt way that it would stay on is if all your bend was in the way outer portion of your limbs otherwise the force would just pop it off like it has. You will also want to taper the riser if you choose to leave it that length.

SJM



I agree with Yew, your riser is too long, use tite bond III and let it cure for 48 hours.
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: Justin Snyder on August 12, 2007, 06:57:13 pm
I don't think the length of the riser is a concern.  If you want to cut an arrow shelf like that you need the extra length. It has to be thicker up were the shelf is, then begin to fade out.  I have quite a few like that. It is more an issue of personal preference.  Justin
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: david w. on August 12, 2007, 08:18:58 pm
i put epoxy on it yesterday.

i've never seen anything wrong with the handle before.  ive shot my bow alot  before it was finished and there was never a problem.

im going to put my last 2 coats of satin deft on it tonight.

then shoot it and see what happens.

Yes Justin it was a glue faliure.  both surfaces were clean.  it was just glue.  i think the sun could of softend the glue while the finnish was drying

the finnished out at about 41# @ 28"   so im happy,  even though it a little light

i'll be gone for a week so the pictures wont be on here for a while

thanks for all the help
david

p.s.  Pat string making is easy i love it.  ive been making them out of my moms cotton sewing thread because its fun
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: david w. on August 12, 2007, 08:23:05 pm
next time im going to get a thicker peice of wood and intergrate the handle in it
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: gpw on August 13, 2007, 09:26:32 am
We had a couple bows with that problem ... likely bad tillering , but we re-glued (T2) and wrapped the handles tightly with some thick Linen string , then varnished... made a nice grip and didn't ever separate again , re-tillering also helped , but not on all ..If you don't like the string grip ,a simple wrap of leather dresses it up ...
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: david w. on August 13, 2007, 10:40:39 am
i may wrap it in leather but i wanted to be able to see the wood in it.  i think the black walnut's cool
Title: Re: the riser on my first selfbow poped off
Post by: George Tsoukalas on August 13, 2007, 10:41:04 am
Robin's picture shows another important factor. See how the handle sits upon the main stave where the stave and the handle have the same taper. Nice job.  Jawge