Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Carson (CMB) on February 05, 2012, 12:28:09 am
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This is my first effort at an osage bow. These were given to me by my dad. Given to him about 15 years ago by his uncle from Kansas. As you can see they are thin-ringed. There is a big knot right in the middle of one of the billets, and a bit of twist (10 degrees) along the other. There is also a bit of rot in the splice section of one, but I am not too concerned about that for some reason...will probably fill with glue and osage dust/shavings. I plan to sinew-back due to thin rings.
I plan to glue up the splice soon (Urac-185), and wondered what the collective thinks about pinning the splice. I have only spliced one bow before and it didn't require a dowel pin. Target weight for this bow is #65. I guess question # 1 is do I need to pin the splice?
Question 2: Should I ignore the minor twist or go after it with dry heat?
I would normally go with my gut (which is no pin and leave twist alone), but I really want to see these billets to bow and don't have any experience with yeller wood.
Also, does that big knot scare anybody?
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Those look like some challenging pieces, but WOW, the color is beautiful. I hope you are succesfull with them.
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I would not pin the splice. I think only weakens the joint. You can put an overlay over the splice to fill out the back of the handle and that should be sufficent. I would ignore the trist for now. It may not effect anything. Are the billets down to its back ring?
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The little "rotted" spot won't be a factor. I would ignore it. If you use the Urac, you shouldn't have to be concerned with pinning. Also, wouldn't worry about the twist, at this point. Your biggest challenge will be the knot. It looks pretty ugly on the belly side. Perhaps if you cleaned it up a bit with a file, closer-but-not-quite-to the the final thickness (guesstimate) of the limb, we might get a better view of it. How wide is the limb at the knot? Also, how much "non-knot" belly wood do you have on each side of the knot.
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i would not pin it as pat says weakens the joint with urac 185 ull be fine are the rings taken to the back yet? if not i see 2 ring s id shoot for the knot may be a lil plm like other s say ck it out and if wide enough if it s real bad u could fill it or if soft make it with a hole in the bow dependin on how wide the billetts are nice billets tho brock
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Outlaw, these are definitely a challenging pair, that billet with the knot in it has this dog leg reflex kink in it right at the knot. The wood is beautiful and the pictures do not do it justice. Osage is a pretty wood.
Pat B. OK. Good to hear. I did not want to mess with pinning the splice, so good to hear a couple votes against it. And your overlay comment got me thinking of a really cool handle build-up I could do with elk leg bone pieces. It is looking pretty sweet in my mind...but handle build-up is a bit far off right now.
As per Pat and Wirwicki, I will leave that twist alone. It is mostly in the outer 1/4 of the one billet, so it should not be big a deal.
Wirwicki, here are some pics of the "belly button" all cleaned up. I think it will hold. It feels pretty solid.
bcbull, The one billet is chased to a single ring but the tips don't show it as there is a couple extra inches on the tip end that were not chased...because billets have not been cut to length yet. The ring is a little thin a couple spots. The other is still in need of ring chasing. I am going to sinew and snake skin back, but will do my best to get a good ring chased on both. Will finish chasing the rings before glue-up.
Thanks guys. This has helped me get back to this bow. I had to walk away for a couple weeks. Good to be back on it.
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do not pin it, it will hurt more than help!
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I fill questionable knots and checks with CA glue, it dries quite clear and holds strong. I love working on old, nasty pieces of osage like you have there. So much to learn in one bow. It can be a problem when talking with others about the quality of staves. I think they are ALL good if there is a chance to make a bow in them!
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I'd do as Pearlie suggested and start filling that knot with super glue. You can add osage sawdust as a filler(do this in thin layers, a little at a time to avoid voids) and it will give the glue some color and add body to the glue. You may have to put some tape or something over the hile in the back until you get a solid level of glue.
How does the splice line up now? You could possibly recut one side of the splice to for better allignment if needed.
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Looks like a real challenge!
I'll be looking in on this one :)
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Wow wow wow, Pearl watch who you are calling nasty! This is beautiful old wood...it just happens to have a couple of ugly holes in it, but then again, who doesn't ;)
Pat and Pearl, I love CA glue, but I am thinking I might leave the limb wide there and forgoe filling it. I will "paint" a coat of CA on the walls of the crater at the least, but it feels strong enough that I can get away with leaving it as a big old limb crater.
Pat, the splice lines up pretty good. it looks like the string will fall center-shot off the handle as is, but I will try to get the string down the center of the handle when I remove material from the tips and maybe coach it over while tillering. I don't know that I could spend anymore time on that splice without making it fit worse or going crazy.
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Update on this osage bow. Got it to low brace. I still need to get the fades moving more. It has proved to be a challenge to tiller, so I have just gone slow on it, relying on the scraper quite a bit. It has taken about 3/4" set so far. The string is just about center of the handle, which I am happy about.
I manage to chase a ring on each billet, except I violated the ring in one spot, two rings deep. It is just at the start of the fades (second to last pic). I don't think it will be a problem, but I have half a mind to go sinew back it because of that and the general thin-ringed nature of this wood. Or maybe sturgeon skins I got from steelslinger...seems wrong on osage, but I know it would look cool.
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Also, I filled that knot hole with CA glue and osage wood dust as Pat and Pearl suggested. I also crammed a bunch of wood shavings into a glass jar and added denatured alcohol...looks like it might make a nice yellow/orange dye.
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Looks good! I am sure that is a pain in the butt to tiller that one!
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Thanks Paul. yes, it has been a little challenging.
Do any of you osage guys think those ring violations in the fade are a concern?
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Looks like I'm too late, but I'd vote against pinning. I can't really see what it's supposed to achieve, unless it's carefully done so that it closes the joint as it's pressed in.
Great looking billets.
Del
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I wouldnt worry about them, they are so small of a surface area, it will be ok. I have bows with violations like that, and I blend the violations into the back ring with a medium grit sandpaper to prevent sharp edges or stress risers from forming. It will be fine. However, if you still worry, wrap it, the mass wont matter on the fades, and wrap the other side for visual ballance.
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Thanks sleek. That is the reassurance I was looking for.
Del, I did not pin it. I think Pinning the joint could help hold alignment if you are using play in the joint to get tip aligned during glue-up. Sounds like most here are against pinning.
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Full draw pics. It is pulling ~45-50 @ 28 after ~150 arrows. Shoots great off the knuckle. Asymetrical tiller. top limb + 1 1/2". Sturgeon skin backing with sturgeon skin glue. Lower limb took about 1 3/4" set and the upper limb about 1" resulting in about 1" string follow on both limbs, closer to 1 1/2" just after shooting. Just need to add a grip wrap and call it done.
I did have little trouble tillering with the lower limb being what it is. I was aiming for higher weight, but I took what she gave me. Overall, I am really happy with it. I will have to get some close up pics of the skins once I get the handle finised I can't wait to start on the sister billets, which are much cleaner and have a nice matched natural recurve towards the tips.
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Good job with that wood, CMB. That's what I call patience!!
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Good work staying with that one... looks like you got rewarded very well :)
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Thanks Lesken and coaster. I am really pleased with this bow. The more I shoot it, the more I like it. I do have to admit I still want to work on that lower limb. I feel like I could take off some mass from the knot on out, and I have even been fighting the urge to pick out the glue and sawdust filling to expose the natural cavity...am I crazy!
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Nice work!!! Love the bow.
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That is a real nice bow CMB. A challenging piece to work with. Thanks for sharing. Dean
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I like that bow a lot. That last full draw picture is especially nice. Good work.
George
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Thanks TurtleCreek. Dean, thanks. I am starting in on that #1 osage stave you sent back in winter. I have a feeling that piece of osage will be a little less of a nail-biter than this one was.
I like that bow a lot. That last full draw picture is especially nice. Good work.
George
Thanks George, I think the last photo shows the tiller best. The angles in the other two pics tend to make the lower limb look stiffer than it really is.