Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: PEARL DRUMS on December 30, 2011, 12:03:48 pm

Title: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 30, 2011, 12:03:48 pm
Im on my way to my buddy Chucks place to get my late Christmas present. Some 25 year old osage billets! If I break this bow I swear all my stuff (including many yellow staves) will be sold off! I cant wait just to see and touch osage that old.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D.



These ol gals are rough around the edges. They been rode wet and put away hard. I think I can see a bow in them though. The possible length bow is still way up in the air. I gotta get to chasing.....................at Martys in January when my buddies Chris (Blackhawk) and Matt(MWiricki) can help me out! WHAT FUN! Eh guys? I have my dish to pass!
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets!
Post by: artcher1 on December 30, 2011, 12:27:38 pm
Must be those SPECIAL billets you were going to send me. Oh boy!!!
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets!
Post by: Dictionary on December 30, 2011, 12:44:42 pm
Is a 25 year old billet stronger than a 10 year old billet? Or would they probably have the same moisture content? Just curious. I'm sure though, having a 25 year old stave is just something special in itself.
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets!
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 30, 2011, 01:21:41 pm
Im afraid your primo billets are only a few months cut Artsy!

Depends who you ask Dictionary. Some say dry is dry and some say seasoned is better than just dried. I have messed around with 4-5 yr old wood and it works and feels completely different than just dry wood. Some say well seasoned wood requires less wood to do the same work. Its just plain romantic to me more than the science behind it.
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets!
Post by: Pat B on December 30, 2011, 01:36:47 pm
The moisture content of any wood will change as the R/H does. The resins, etc have a chance to chrystalize in the wood cells after years of seasoning. I don't know the rate or if 10year old is as good/bad as 25 year old wood but I'd rather use a 2-3 y o piece over a 1 y o piece and a 10 y o piece over a 2-3 y o piece. Maybe it is a maturity thing...in the wood that is!  ;).
  Pearlie, this will be fun to watch. Keep us posted.  Take your time and I'm sure you will produce a great bow with this special wood.  8)
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets!
Post by: artcher1 on December 30, 2011, 01:38:01 pm
Rats! >:(
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets!
Post by: MWirwicki on December 30, 2011, 02:03:57 pm
Do I get first dibs on the yard sale?  Drums:  You'll love that old wood.  I have several 15+ year-old staves that indeed are a pleasure to work.
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets!
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 30, 2011, 02:09:59 pm
You got it Matt. I will auction off whatever you leave behind..............Not much Im betting!
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets!
Post by: artcher1 on December 30, 2011, 03:06:23 pm
I think you'll find it takes longer to reduce the M/C of wood that old (if needed) but I also believe you can make a working bow with a higher M/C than an unseasoned but dried piece. It's pretty much seen it all in that amount of time and not much is going to hurt it. I take that back, it hasn't seen Pearly yet >:D!
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets!
Post by: Buckeye Guy on December 30, 2011, 03:45:06 pm
I think you'll find it takes longer to reduce the M/C of wood that old (if needed) but I also believe you can make a working bow with a higher M/C than an unseasoned but dried piece. It's pretty much seen it all in that amount of time and not much is going to hurt it. I take that back, it hasn't seen Pearly yet >:D!
I love it
 it aint seen Pearly yet!!
Guy
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets!
Post by: osage outlaw on December 30, 2011, 07:52:48 pm
Hey Pearly, I got dibs on that new Grizzly bandsaw >:D
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets!
Post by: Slackbunny on December 30, 2011, 07:55:19 pm
What did you say his address was again? And when will he be away from home?
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 30, 2011, 10:05:44 pm
All you VULTURES out there wanting my wares..............I added some gravy to your meal up top............no extra cost!
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: osage outlaw on December 30, 2011, 11:51:23 pm
You know we are just kidding ;D  Good luck with the billets. 
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: soy on December 31, 2011, 03:12:28 am
NEW GRIZZLY BAND SAW!?!?!what one u get??can't wait to see a bow be born out o those ;)
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: Dvshunter on December 31, 2011, 03:18:22 am
I know that feeling pearl. I have a stave from a friend of mine cut in 1938. Black as coal and hard as can be. I havent started on it yet, but its happining this coming year.
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: blackhawk on December 31, 2011, 06:19:06 am
That looks like some nice firewood to me ;)  :laugh:....ill take em off your hands in a couple weeks and properly dispose them :laugh:

What's the dimensions on those? Length,width,depth? I guess you wont know what ya got till you start chasing. And how do the sides look? Any laminar seperations/checks? I have a couple 20+ year old staves that are still seasoning too ;)...and they got some issues too,but not that much. Have fun....not sure if I wanna taste that dish :D
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: Jude on December 31, 2011, 06:57:11 am
Is the sapwood still discernable from the heartwood when they're that old?  Is it lighter once you cut past the surface wood?
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 31, 2011, 09:57:40 am
They are of average billet size. 36" long, 3 x 3. The sapwood is long gone and the sides are solid as a rock. I have no idea how short they will have to be to get rid of end checks. I have plenty of depth to get a clean back. They are sister's if that matters after 25 years. They look like old fence posts to me, but I cant be sure. They will either be a bow in a month, or they wont be. I couldnt burn osage that old if it breaks. I would have to make knife scales and overlays with it.
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: blackhawk on December 31, 2011, 10:55:05 am
Sounds like some great minds(everyone but me)will converge on em in a couple weeks. Try to hold off working on em till then,they waited 25 years so they can wait another two weeks ;) it looks like you can cut a few inches off those checked ends and splice at those ends. But I don't know what the other ends look like. You can have a check coming up into the tip,you just use a wrapped overlay instead of side nocks. It looks like a great bow in the making there. ;)
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on December 31, 2011, 10:59:27 am
Trust me, Im not touching them until four or five of us can stare at them and figure out a good path to start on. It will be worth it in the end. This future bow's name could get interesting with all the guys involved? Hmmmmmmm?
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: MWirwicki on December 31, 2011, 11:20:28 am
Drums:  There's a fine bow in there.  We'll make it happen!
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: Eric Krewson on December 31, 2011, 11:27:51 am
I have my doubts about those billets, too many checks, hope you can prove me wrong.

Those billets remind me of the 4 flawless, knot free arrow straight staves I sealed with wood glue and put in an outside storage building during on particularly hot summer 15 years ago. When I checked on them a month later they looked about like your billets.

I read Dean's book"Hunting the Osage Bow", switched to shellac as a sealer and never had a problem with stave checking again.
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: bcbull on December 31, 2011, 04:38:10 pm
pearlie  i do see a bow in there  ur lookin like me haha always pickin the nsatyiest piece i can find lol you got ur work cut out for ya bro but i do see it go buy urslef a bunch a loc tite 498 ur gonna need it and some unwaxed sinew thread haha have fun bro brock
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: bcbull on December 31, 2011, 04:41:54 pm
dang forgt to mention i say make it a 2 piece take down cuz those checks are gonna cost ya some wood i think ya can keep one end with the checks incoprorated into the sleeves maybe trim it a bit but use a gap filling epoxey in the sleeve area and then glue the take down s on  just a seggustion bro but thats what im seein i wouldnt splice it brock
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: artcher1 on December 31, 2011, 04:57:37 pm
Those billets look a sight better than the last set I used. Got 'em out to make firewood, but not having anything else to work on, decided to give'em a go. Turned out to be the fastest  and one of the finest bows I've made. So you never know until you dig into 'em Pearly. That's advice #1. Holler back if'n you need more ;D............Art
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on January 16, 2012, 04:25:58 pm
Eric was right. One billet was so-so and the other was of zero good. It had checks through in both directions the full 40". My buddy Marty asked what I was doing with "those" things. I told him trying to get a bow out of them. 5 minutes later he shows up with a set of billets that have perfectly flipped natural tips already and told me to work on them rather! What a gift!
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: soy on January 17, 2012, 12:42:30 am
That's a bummer man :( well good luck on the new ones :D
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets!
Post by: toomanyknots on January 17, 2012, 01:56:04 am
The moisture content of any wood will change as the R/H does. The resins, etc have a chance to chrystalize in the wood cells after years of seasoning. I don't know the rate or if 10year old is as good/bad as 25 year old wood but I'd rather use a 2-3 y o piece over a 1 y o piece and a 10 y o piece over a 2-3 y o piece. Maybe it is a maturity thing...in the wood that is!  ;).
  Pearlie, this will be fun to watch. Keep us posted.  Take your time and I'm sure you will produce a great bow with this special wood.  8)

Alot musicians say the same thing about wooden instruments. I've heard alot of people say that they believe over the years the resin's crystallize and make for a more resonant instrument.
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: Gus on January 17, 2012, 04:25:50 am
Yes Sir...

My Pappy has always Said, "The Older the Wood, The Sweeter The Music"...

But he never built a bow that I know of...

I'm sure they'll hum a fine tune one y'all get her strung.
Can't wait to watch it come together.

-gus
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: Pappy on January 17, 2012, 09:44:28 am
To bad was looking forward to seeing them worked up,I love old Osage if it has been taken care of. :) :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on January 17, 2012, 10:24:58 am
Well they may still happen Pappy. Matt got after them where I left off. He said he has a clean ring on them, but quite narrow. If anybody gets a bow out of them Matt will be the guy more so than me. 
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on May 31, 2012, 10:40:43 pm
Well lookey there. Mr Matt (mwiricki) got something out of them afterall. He handed me back this 62" blank with plenty of "character" and said, "Now go make a bow with this". That is just whats going to happen real soon.  I plan to wrap the nasty crack you see with sinew and hide glue. Then add 3 full layers to the back while adding reflex and flip the tips a pinch. Hopefull to get a 50-55# @ 27" bow from them. Matt you did a bang up job on those nasty buggers and the splice is great. Thanks buddy, I will let you shoot it at Elm Hall. ;)

More to come!


Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: George Tsoukalas on May 31, 2012, 11:12:06 pm
Nice, PD! Have fun. Jawge
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: Pappy on June 01, 2012, 09:59:36 am
Now that's looking good,nice save Matt. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: bcbull on June 01, 2012, 03:13:06 pm
great job matt lol u did a great job there  gimme a hollar  brock :)
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 09, 2012, 07:23:58 pm
Got three courses of sinew and hide glue on her today. I added a ton of reflex. To be honest, I still dont trust a few edge cracks I see and will probably thin down some roo hide super thin and cover it all right over the edges. Then add some skins. It wont be fast, but it will be durable and thats what I look for in my bows.

Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: criveraville on June 09, 2012, 07:32:46 pm
Looking good Pearly. Nice save Matt.

Cipriano
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: MWirwicki on June 09, 2012, 10:17:43 pm
Looking good, Drums!  Glad to see you're working on it.  Keep us posted....
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 10, 2012, 10:50:04 am
Oh Im working on it Matt! Im gonna baby this one and let it sun/wind bathe every day Im around. I want to give the sinew the best chance to be the best sinew it can be.
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 13, 2012, 10:16:43 pm
Well I slid my blocks in and turned them upward to gain another 1 1/2" of reflex. Its up around 7-8" now. I hope to keep half. Im amazed at how fast it has hardened and cleared up just from me sitting it outdoors in the sun and wind every night for 2-3 hours.  Much quicker change than I see when I leave it indoors. I keep it under a fan when its indoors.
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: Will H on June 13, 2012, 10:37:01 pm
Lookin good man!
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: MWirwicki on June 14, 2012, 10:09:22 am
Keep up the good work, Drums! 
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: blackhawk on June 14, 2012, 10:53:06 am
Oooooooo.....me likey....me likey lots o reflex  :D
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: osage outlaw on June 14, 2012, 11:00:35 am
That is looking mean.      I can't wait to see it bend the other way.
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: Carson (CMB) on June 14, 2012, 03:23:26 pm
That is nice! I love old osage.  That is going to be a special bow. 
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 30, 2012, 08:17:55 pm
I had very little tillering to do after the sinew dried. I was able to get a 45# @ 28" bow. My buddy Dave is drawing it for me.

Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: osage outlaw on June 30, 2012, 08:38:36 pm
Very nice.  How much reflex did it hold?
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: KHalverson on June 30, 2012, 10:08:57 pm
me likey
great job chris
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: coaster500 on June 30, 2012, 10:20:08 pm
Bam!!  lookin good Drums!!
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: CTT on June 30, 2012, 11:22:11 pm
You done good PD!
Them things looked worse in the pics than they did in my shop.
Turned out good I think. I will check it out at Elm Hall or GLLI.

CTT
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: owlbait on July 01, 2012, 12:30:27 am
Nice Chris. See you at Elm Hall. I'll let you shoot mine if you'll let me shoot yours :D
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 01, 2012, 09:41:48 am
Very nice.  How much reflex did it hold?

After I took it off my "jig" It sat freely with 3 3/4" reflex. After tillering and shooting 80-100 arrows its just over 1 1/2". I wanted more draw weight, oh well! It shoots great as is.
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: lesken2011 on July 01, 2012, 09:57:26 am
Looks good, PD. If it is too light, right now, you can keep it till you get "older"...like next year. Trust me, sooner or later, it will probably be just right!  ;)
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: MWirwicki on July 01, 2012, 10:26:42 am
Looks great, Drums!  Glad to see it survived.  Can't wait to see it at Elm Hall!
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: blackhawk on July 01, 2012, 10:35:08 am
the bend looks good to me  ;)   did you forego putting on rawhide?
Title: Re: 25 yr old billets! PICS
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on July 01, 2012, 07:38:17 pm

the bend looks good to me  ;)   did you forego putting on rawhide?

Yup. I figured its light enough now I dont need to slow it down more with rawhide. Not to mention the sketchy spots arent under a bunch of strain. I will skin it in the coming week.