Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: UserNameTaken on December 26, 2011, 05:44:42 pm

Title: spokeshaves
Post by: UserNameTaken on December 26, 2011, 05:44:42 pm
Hey, I got a spokeshave as a gift, and I noticed this morning that the blade sits at an angle. Is that normal? Here's a picture of what I'm talking about:
(http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m599/biggorillasuit/IMG_0290.jpg)
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: M-P on December 26, 2011, 06:46:11 pm
Howdy,   I've never seen a spokeshave that has the blade look like that.   In my opinion you should take some time tuning this one up.   Spokeshaves are a special form of plane.   The back of the blade should be flat against the "body", as the blade needs the support to minimize "chatter".    Ron
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: sonny on December 26, 2011, 06:57:46 pm
I could be wrong but it looks like you have the blade adjusted so far down and uneven that it makes it look crooked.
I've never had the blade adjusted that far down as it only takes the slightest bit to remove curls of wood.
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: UserNameTaken on December 26, 2011, 07:26:55 pm
Yeah, I realize that it needs to be adjusted, but that won't keep the blade from going cockeyed. There is what appears to be an imperfection in the casting of the body. It's a lump of cast iron that's keeping the blade from laying flat. It's not that way on the other side. What I need to know is whether or not the blade is meant to rest flat against the cast iron body.
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: JW_Halverson on December 26, 2011, 07:51:22 pm
Pull the blade out from the body of the tool and look at the surface where the blade "beds" down.  Do you see anything that gets in the way?  Is there a spur around any of the machining that you can take down with a small file?

On my old Stanley (long since broken when it got dropped on a concrete floor) I used gunstock bedding compound to create a better bed for the blade ro rest on.  Solved a lot of chatter problems at the same time!

If the blade beds nice and flat without anything hanging up it may just be that when the cast body of the tool was bolted into the mill the machinist didn't get it set properly and the bed is milled into the tool body cock-eyed.  If that is the case, use a small file to open the throat or gullet where the cutting edge of the blade pokes thru the bottom. 
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: Stringman on December 26, 2011, 08:13:21 pm
It appears that the blade is turned around backwards. Take it off and flip it, then see if that makes a difference.
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: JW_Halverson on December 26, 2011, 08:16:46 pm
Stringman may have the answer.  Make sure the bevel is down or facing towards the back of the tool. 
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: Grunt on December 26, 2011, 10:01:56 pm
The shave will work a lot better if the blade has a slight radius profile. Just put some masking tape on the flat side, draw a radius with something big like a tin can and grind the new profile. Resharpen and adjust it till it takes off a ribbon about 1/2 to 3/4 inch wide. The radius allows fine for control.
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: M-P on December 26, 2011, 10:32:13 pm
I went back to photo and can't really see if stringman is right about blade positioning.  Take a look at the tool.  The blade will angle toward the direction the tool will be pulled.   The bevel on the blade should be on the top of the blade.  The flat 'back' of the blade should be supported by the cast body.  If the back of the blade is not evenly  supported by the body, you may need to do some careful filing or filling to remove irregularities. 
I gently round the corners of the blade to prevent digging in.  I may have to try Grunt's suggestion  on blade radiusing, as I stilll fight with my spoke shaves occasionally.   They seem to really appreciate a sharp blade and careful depth adjustment.   Ron.
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: JW_Halverson on December 26, 2011, 10:39:51 pm
   The bevel on the blade should be on the top of the blade.  The flat 'back' of the blade should be supported by the cast body.
 Ron.

I have to disagree with Ron on that one.  When it is bevel up the angle of the cutting edge is just off perpendicular and the tool works more like a scraper than a cutting tool.  Bevel down cuts more smoothly as the bevel allow's "relief" behind the cutting edge so that the wood is shaved off.  A wood turner showed me that once when I was burning up his tools and ruining a nice chunk of maple!
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: UserNameTaken on December 26, 2011, 11:08:50 pm
I went back to photo and can't really see if stringman is right about blade positioning.  Take a look at the tool.  The blade will angle toward the direction the tool will be pulled.   The bevel on the blade should be on the top of the blade.  The flat 'back' of the blade should be supported by the cast body.  If the back of the blade is not evenly  supported by the body, you may need to do some careful filing or filling to remove irregularities. 
I gently round the corners of the blade to prevent digging in.  I may have to try Grunt's suggestion  on blade radiusing, as I stilll fight with my spoke shaves occasionally.   They seem to really appreciate a sharp blade and careful depth adjustment.   Ron.

ok, so it sounds like the blade is supposed to rest flat, and not crooked. Thanks.
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: M-P on January 01, 2012, 11:37:53 pm
Howdy,   Ok, first thing I did when I got home was to check my spoke shave.   I did have the blade  'bevel up'.   I made a few passes on a scrap and it did OK.   I turned the blade over and rest the depth, then made a few more passes.   It definitely worked better with the bevel down ( as JW describes).   Either way it sits flat and well supported by the by.    Ron
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: Canoe on January 02, 2012, 01:46:56 pm
Howdy UserNameTaken,

(And, Happy New Year.)

I think you are right in that your spokeshave may have a gob of cast iron sitting on the flat surface where the blade is supposed to be riding on.  That's entirely possible.  (And, that would explain why somebody gave it away - to you.)  However, it could be that you have a large burr on the blade itself. 

You need to take apart you spokeshave and get a close look at that surface, under the blade, where the blade sits.  You may have to get in there with a thin file and deburr the surface(s).


Here is a link to an article / guide for a spokeshave tune up.  (You can also Google "Spokeshave tune up" to find other useful stuff.)

http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/INDEX_How_To_pages/Smalser_on_SpokeshaveTuneUp.htm


I am a big fan of the spokeshave.  After I did a tune up and then build a one dollar honing jig, I have been able to easily take off beautiful, paper-thin ribbons of wood from the back of my bows that are up to an inch wide.

Good luck, stick with it,
Canoe

 
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: JW_Halverson on January 02, 2012, 11:58:37 pm
Nice link, Canoe!  I could have written something like that about how I tune them up but it would have ended up 5 or 6 pages long not including "the thirty-seven 8-by-10 full color glossy photographs with the circles and arrows and the paragraph on the back explaining each one."*




*Show of hands now!  How many get that reference? 
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: Bevan R. on January 03, 2012, 12:16:10 am
I got it  8)
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: UserNameTaken on January 03, 2012, 12:41:58 am
So, I filed down the imperfection in the cast iron body, which leveled out the blade. Now I just need to get it sharpened up. It doesn't cut for s$@t.

Sounds like it's pretty common for these things to have imperfections.
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: bowtarist on January 03, 2012, 12:56:17 am
"......and he talked for 45 minutes and nobody understood a word that he said."  :o ;D

oh, UNT, sounds like you got your problems in control.  Good luck on sharpening...I'd bet you can get it done.

it's an anti-massacree movement!
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: JW_Halverson on January 03, 2012, 12:57:27 am
In three part harmoneeee

And we'll all sing it when the guitar part comes around again.
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: Canoe on January 03, 2012, 01:13:46 pm
Howdy Group,

Yeah, once you get a good edge on your spokeshave it seems to stay sharp for a really long time.
Here's a link on blade sharpening.  (This guide seems technical but don't worry about that.  From this sight, I made a cheep, simple honing jig that works like a charm.)

http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/sharpen.html
 

Note:  Although your spokeshave blade may be 2-1/4" wide, you can't get that wide a ribbon - you'll just get a lot of chatter and frustration.
Working lengthwise along the back of your bow, you start by removing wood on the outer edges creating a slight rise (or hill) toward the middle. Then you focus on removing that raised portion along the middle to again get a flatter back.  Then you start again toward the outside edges, creating a rise.  As a result, you should be removing long, paper-thin ribbons that are around 3/4" to an inch wide with very little effort.

I hope that's helpful.

All the Best,
Canoe

And, yes.  I got the reference. "...it was a typical case of American blind justice."  -  Arlo Guthrie
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: JW_Halverson on January 03, 2012, 07:12:00 pm
I recently bought a Veritas brand spokeshave from Lee Valley Tools.  Cost the better part of an arm and a leg, but I didn't have to do a thing to the tool once it arrived.  Straight from the box the blade shaved hair from my forearm and the cutting blade mated with the tool bed like a custom fit.  It's almost impossible to get it to chatter. 

I did find that working with softwoods it would choke out.  I used a needle file to open the throat of the tool a little to allow deeper cuts of wood to pass more easily.  On well cured hardwoods such as osage a high quality spokeshave is a pleasure to use. 

Hope you enjoy yours for years to come.  By the way, as a word of caution.  Don't be too ambitious about sweeping up shavings under your bench when working with a spokeshave.  That cast iron body is brittle as glass!  Those shavings may prevent the took from shattering if it gets dropped on the floor.  I lost both of my old Stanley's in one week due to concrete floor impacts!!!  Besides, my legs don't ache from standing on 3" of shavings like they would from standing around on concrete.  Just being practical, not lazy, ya know.    >:D
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: John D on January 03, 2012, 07:29:15 pm
This discussion may have answered a question I've been wanting to ask.  It seemed taboo to tiller with a spokeshave.  But I've been using one because its the tool that I have on the board bows I've been building.  I've learned that its easy to remove too much too fast, but in general, I can adjust it to remove paper thin shavings and a spokeshave has been working well for me. 

Those of  you who use a spokeshave, do you use it all the way to final tiller?  Are there non-visible benefits to scraping verses shaving? 

Thank you,

John
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: JW_Halverson on January 03, 2012, 07:33:13 pm
This discussion may have answered a question I've been wanting to ask.  It seemed taboo to tiller with a spokeshave.  But I've been using one because its the tool that I have on the board bows I've been building.  I've learned that its easy to remove too much too fast, but in general, I can adjust it to remove paper thin shavings and a spokeshave has been working well for me. 

Those of  you who use a spokeshave, do you use it all the way to final tiller?  Are there non-visible benefits to scraping verses shaving? 

Thank you,

John

John,

I've tillered with a spokeshave all the way to the end...usually not on purpose, and generally achieving an underweight bow!  But you can, and should, go to thinner and thinner shavings the closer you get to final tiller.
-John Halverson
Title: Re: spokeshaves
Post by: M-P on January 04, 2012, 02:02:03 am
Back when I first thought to make a bow the texts I had  (Pope and Thompson) both recommended spokeshaves.   Of course they both recommended yew, osage or lemonwood as the only woods for making a decent bow, though I seem to remember mention of hickory in dire straights.   The local lumber yard had none of these woods and the local hardware had to look up a spokeshave in their catalog.  It was all just too much for my 15 year old self and so I sort of put off making a bow for the next 35 years or so.
Anyway the point is that spokeshaves have certainly been used for tillering bows.   And dang but mine works so much better at nice long shavings since I turned the blade over.   Ron