Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Hawkeye1974 on July 02, 2011, 12:30:47 pm
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Has anyone ever seen, used and/or fired one? Also what are they made from? Ironwood?Ebony? Do you have to order them from Africa to buy one or is there a website and how much are they? There was a woman online who claimed to kill an elephant with one but there were no pictures of the bow.
I have seen plenty pics of English yew bows, so I am curious about them.
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Here's a thread with some old pics: http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/reply/228548/t/Re-Elephant-bow-.html
Not going to be a common item these days since you can't poach elephants.
African bows would be made of the same type of woods you would use anywhere else to make a heavy bow. Nothing magical about them.
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Thanks PatM
I appropriate the info all this is new to me hope to learn from you guys.
Hawkeye1974
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Hawkeye, Howard Hill used I believe a 105# Bamboo bow, and a six foot arrow.
There was an article on his killing an Elephant with a bow, back in the sixties, in either Sports Afield, or Outdoor Life. It showed a picture of him, and the Elephant he shot, and the bow and arrow. I don't remember the whole story, just the fact that he killed the Elephant, with the bow and arrow, and the pictures. I had once thought it was Fred Bear who did it, but it was actually Howard Hill. Regardless of how he achieved it, it is still an incredible feat. As for the Woman, wow! But I have to wonder, if the heard was somewhat tame, as in used to tourists, as they may not see too well, but their hearing and sense of smell is phenomenal! None the less, it is incredible that she was able to kill an Elephant with a bow and arrow. However, ...... ::) ;D Howard Hill used a self bow, not one with training wheels, and fifty percent let off. ;D ;D I give her credit where it is due, indeed. Being able to get the the first pull past the let off is admirable indeed. 8) But I still wonder about the 12yds., and I hate to bring up suspicions, without seeing an actual video of it if there is one, but ..... ::)Could the herd have been baited? But still to get that close to a herd of Elephants, wether they are used to people or not, takes a bit of nerve. I would not, because an Elephant can be exceptionally fast when it wants to, and that trunk is quite a marvelous piece of nature's engineering. If an Elephant gets that trunk close enough, it can fold your hand, and take your chips pretty quickly. ;) Just think of King Kong grabbing you! :o ;) I wonder what she had for back up? Even Fred Bear, carried a .44 magnum, and his guides had sufficient guns to end a hunt gone wrong. He shot some mighty big bears with a recurve! But She deserves all kudos she can get for such a feat. ;) I will look at them at the zoo, I have neither desire, nor the nerve to try to shoot one with a bow, not to mention the strength to pull that weight of a bow back to proper length. ;) ;D ;D
Wayne
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I agree totally Wayne, I am just find bows with that kind of power amazing.
I have no aspirations to kill an elephant but the force of african and english warbows have me stumped.
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Yes indeed, some of those bow will humble you. There is supposed to be documented proof, of a 75-100 yd. shot of an English Long Bow, that sent an arrow through a knights leg, and into his horse, and killed the horse, and impaled the knight to the horse. I was told that when I was in England, back in 1990. But some of them were in excess of a hundred pounds. Took one hell of a man to pull that back, and hold it. I would not want his meat hooks, getting a grip on my neck! :o But they were selected as young boys to be archers, and trained daily with bows, so they sort of grew into it. Some of the skeletons on board the ship that sank in the harbor, (can't remember the name of it at the moment. Mary something, Rose? maybe.) were believed to be archers because of the thicker and flattened bones of the left forarm, due to the constant strain of archery and heavy bows. I give her credit indeed for being able to pull that string back to the let off point. Doubt I could. I wouldn't hunt an Elephant, but I would dearly love to have some tusks, and an Elephant foot umbrella stand. Saw a matching pair of tusks in the home of a very wealthy man years ago. They were at least six feet tall and very thick. I remember seeing an Elephant leg umbrella stand, in an antique shop when I was a young boy.
Wayne
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Hawkeye, Howard Hill used I believe a 105# Bamboo bow, and a six foot arrow.
Wayne I don't know where you got the idea HH used 6 ft arrows, take a look at the video of the kill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buyE2sYXU5Y
and you will see he used normal length arrows.
Craig.
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Ok, I stand corrected. ;) I read the article back in the early to mid 60's. Somewhere in there a six foot arrow was mentioned for somethig or another. Thought it was for the Elephant. I could have the six foot arrow from another article of that era, confused ???with Howard Hill's remarkable feat. Thanks for the video. 8)
Wayne
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Buuuuutttt.....the arrow was not a normal length, arrow......it stated it pierced 31 inches, into the heart, and there was still almost half of the length left sticking out. Though it did not look quite that long in the pictures. Still not six feet. Could be Artistic license on the part of the narrator. ;) Cool video. That was quite a distance he shot at it also. :o 8) Thanks again.
Wayne
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Howard Hill used a 115# bow. ad the arrows were 41" long.
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Watched the video that is one POWERRFUL BOW!
The arrow length might work for me, I am 6'6" and weigh about 316 pounds.
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That was some serious shooting the arrows might work for me.
41' I am 6'6" and 316 pounds, unless some can give me better info on the size of arrows.
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I thought it was 105# bow, but whew, a 115# bow! :o :o I doubt I could even string it, let alone shoot it as casually as he did. I wonder, did he built it, or have someone build it for him?
Wayne
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115's nothing, the bow he pulled was 170 for the record way back when, if anyone has any info on that bow I would love to hear it.
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Sheesh! 170# ! :o The heaviest bow I read about was built and shot by a N.A. Indian,can't remember his name, but, he made and shot a 200-220 lb. English war bow! :o Showed him shooting a 1/2 inch arrow through a thick metal bucket filled with sand. I would have to use bow like that for a walking staff, or bridge support. ;)
Wayne
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If he was the guy with the mullet then ignore it it was total rubbish. There are 170s being shot today the record stands at 200lb
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Can't remember if he had a mullet, or not. It was in an archery Magazine quite a few years ago, I can't remember if it was 200# or 220, for sure, but I believe it was 200#. It showed him shooting the bow, and the arrow was like a 1/2 inch thick. I just took it for what the article said. All I know is that he was supposed to be a Native American. I have no idea what particular tribe.
But none the less 200#, is a hell of a bow! Can you imagine if that thing exploded?!!! :o :o
Wayne
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I read the bit about the woman hunting the elephant with a bow and wanted to get some more information. So I googled her name. Mistake. Bad mistake.
There are dozens of websites dedicated to (and I am not exaggerating) threatening her life, limb, and safety. The threats are such that they are sufficient to expose the persons who have posted to legal ramifications up to and including felonious prosecution. Those that are content to not threaten her are using the most vile and abusive language towards her. Women spewing the "c" word they themselves consider to be the unspeakable word rolls off their keyboards with practiced ease. Vicious is the word that best describes these people and their violent ravings.
I have never heard the level of malevolent evil from the gun-wackies/kill-em-n-grill-'em crowd and they are supposed to be the blood thirsty murderous ones!!! I guess now more than ever we hunters need to hold our tempers in check, bite our tongues for a moment to regain calm, and speak rationally and calmly, supporting our arguements with facts and relevant research. We'll never win over the radical nuts, but the battle is for the Middle Ground. Act civil, speak with facts, and refrain from name calling and threats....let the middle ground decide which side sounds most reasonable and sane.
Ok, getting off my soapbox now.
As for my choice in bow for hunting elephants...I dunno. Not that it makes a lot of difference because whatever I chose it wouldn't help because by the time I got 12 yds from a bull elephant I would be reduced to a quivering, sobbing, whimpering pile of goo because I have read plenty about what one of these things can do when only mildly peeved, must less actually angry. I've read of elephants spending several days carrying around a human corpse just so they can beat the crap outa it again when they feel like it!!!
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Yepher, DE crazies is out there. And they will be the first ones to scream if you were to use the same language, and tirades that they use, on a subject they feel near and dear to. Ah, more chemicals, and GMO for our food please. :P Who knows, with all the crap in the food, the crazies will be the norm, and the norm will be the crazies. I am with you, I don't think I could get anywhere near that close, to an adult Elephant, and even a teen aged one. They can be more devilish than the adults! >:D
Yeah, the power, and speed, and intelligence they possess, is phenomenal to say the least. I read of an account of an African hunter who was hired to cull a rogue Bull Elephant, and he said it was quite smart, and very deadly. They can sneak up on you without making a sound. They are incredibly stealthy when they want to be. The pads of their feet are like huge sneakers..... ::) Sneak, ....sneakers...... ::) ;D Ok, yeah, I would not be a good candidate to cull one of those things, first of all it would be able to smell me quite a distance off. Even the natives would leave me. I would have to have some awful dependable depends! :o ;D :P :P Sounds like the Phenomenally Emotional Tangent Association is at it again, fomenting violence, by spewing their delusional rantings as intelligent discussion. Maybe we could talk a bunch of them into forming a human shield around the Elephants that are to be culled...... ;) 8) 8) Like the Idiot that ran into the bull ring, and got between the bull and the Matador, and the bull, thought, ok, this guy is closer, and took him out, and then went on with the bull fight. The Gene Pool got a little cleaner in the shallow end that day. ;) Or the woman who tried to stop the running of the bulls, and got ripped a new one by a bull. They want peace and harmony among our little animal friends, but will be the first in line to kill a human who actually likes to hunt and fish. It must be the chemicals and GMO's in the food supply..... ::) ;D ;D Must be ;).......it is affecting peoples ability to think rationally, in addition to the other health risks. ;) ;D Or they could just be plain nuts! ;) ::) Anyway, I applaud the the woman for her feat. I sure couldn't do it. If I had the strength to pull that heavy draw bow back, then I have the strength, to carry a .458 Winchester, or .464 A&M magnum, .416 Rigby, etc. ! ;) Then I don't want to shoot an Elephant with one of those either. Not that I have anything against culling an Elephant, I have gotten wimpy in my older years. I don't like shooting my 45-70 at the range either. A shot or two at game, ok, but not much more than that . But one of the big boys, I don't have any desire to shoot, unless I had to. ;) I have shot a 375 H&H mag a few times when I was younger, and it got all the desire to shoot a really big gun out of my system. But to get within 12 yds. of a full grown bull Elephant, and stick it with an arrow!. :o :o I think I would take my chances on smacking a water buffalo in the rear, with a rolled wet towel!! ::)
Wayne
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Howard Hill used a 115# bow. ad the arrows were 41" long.
You may be correct but I doubt it, if you take a look at the video again and concentrate at about 3 minutes 11 seconds, when HH has just walked up to the kill he has both a the bow and and arrow in this hand, compare the arrow length to the bow. I would suggest the arrow is more like 30 inches than 40.
stickbender,
Buuuuutttt.....the arrow was not a normal length, arrow......it stated it pierced 31 inches, into the heart, and there was still almost half of the length left sticking out. Though it did not look quite that long in the pictures. Still not six feet. Could be Artistic license on the part of the narrator.
Its possible that they were talking of an arrow that did penetrate that far which was not necesarily the one you could see protruding from the kill, think of the number of shots HH made and how many shafts you saw in the animal.
Craig.
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From Howard Hill Archery catalogue.
Howard shot 3 elephants. One was a rogue or "Tembo". on Feb 27,1950 Howard became teh first WHITE MAN to ever kill an elephant with a bow and arrow. "Tembo" is a 3 lam bamboo bow modeled after the the famous "Gran-Ma" bow that he used to kill all three elephants. It sells for $525.00. I'm guessing that the actual was closer to the Wesley Special. Hill was famous for heavy draw weight bows. He is quoted as saying his favorite hunting weight is 80-90# but can draw 100# easily. It was his physical conditioning. At 65 he was shooting a 75lb bow with "ease and comfort". He shot such a bow for 30-90 min three times a week. Shooting was his exercise.
Most Hill bows are 4 laminations except the "Wesley Special" which is 5 laminations of tempered bamboo and Tembo, a 3 lam bow. His bows can be requested at any weight up to 200 lbs and 32" draw in lengths between 60-70". They all contain fiberglass. Hill was quite quick to adopt fiberglass in his designs as some of his actual early bows are galss backed and some are glass bellied.
http://www.howardhillarchery.com/robin-hood-limited-edition.html
the current special edition is looks bamboo backed and glass bellied.
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Bit of topic but here's a thread about Chief AJ's Longbow record.
https://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=2910.0
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Bit of topic but here's a thread about Chief AJ's Longbow record.
https://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=2910.0
I would suggest the correct way of referring to this is undocumented, unproven claim.
Craig.
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I wouldn't hunt an Elephant, but I would dearly love to have some tusks, and an Elephant foot umbrella stand. Saw a matching pair of tusks in the home of a very wealthy man years ago. They were at least six feet tall and very thick. I remember seeing an Elephant leg umbrella stand, in an antique shop when I was a young boy.
Wayne
I would have hoped that killing intelligent beautiful animals and making orphans of their young for these kinds of questionable and trivial purposes was in the past. Unfortunately it is not.
If you kill it, eat it.
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I would have hoped that killing intelligent beautiful animals and making orphans of their young for these kinds of questionable and trivial purposes was in the past. Unfortunately it is not.
If you kill it, eat it.
I would agree if I could overlook the fact that in some parts of Africa the elephant population has exceeded the carrying capacity of the land they inhabit. Good conservation methods would dictate removing a number of bulls, but also a critical number of females without calves. The usual clientele that's well heeled enough to afford paying for an elephant hunt is going to be able to absorb the added cost of the requisite game manager/guide that can point him towards the correct animals, avoiding the unnecessary orphaning of young.
The other choice in areas where elephants are overpopulated is to try teaching them abstinence and/or safe sex practices. I don't know if they are ready for that yet.
I spoke with a local gentleman here that has hunted elephant with his wife in Africa. He states in both cases the carcass was stripped of ALL usable meat in under three hours by teams of 4 trained bushmen. All bushmeat is distributed thru the area to various agencies/tribal governments, no waste. Cripes, it takes me all of that much time to skin, quarter, cut, and wrap a 100 lb deer!
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JW Halverson. Good and informed points. Unfortunately the "carrying capacity of the land they inhabit" is continually rreduced by irresponsible human overpopulation, a high number of children coupled with environmental destruction by natives and foreigners alike [ 90% rain forest destruction in Cameroon.in 30 years ] which makes it easy for elephants to exceed the "carrying capacity". Teaching the human population abstinence would be a better idea, but perhaps more difficult.
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kinda sad to think the elephants probably are more likely to learn to limit their population.
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Watched the video that is one POWERRFUL BOW!
The arrow length might work for me, I am 6'6" and weigh about 316 pounds.
Geeeee! 6.6 and 316 you don't need a bow you could just punch it in the face.
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I forget that areas now because elephant will never be on my list of "stuff to shoot" but the safari hunts have made a comeback becasue of a combination of good government and a rare occasion when well structured market incentives worked out. It's not so much that the habitat is reduced and thus carrying capicity is reduced, at least in the regions I'm thinking of.
Hunting and eco-safari are big business for them with little else to market or trade on the world market. Too keep the money coming in then the resource needs to be optimaly mnaged.
Side point "Naked Economics" has an interesting if depressing bit on the market for Rhino horn. Poor buggers are probably doomed.
I didn't know you could eat elephant. Well I guess "bush meat" is just that. Primeaval slabs of chewy meat from which to extract protien. There are some elegant and tasty "deer looking" animals there I'd love to sink an arrow into.
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I didn't know you could eat elephant. Well I guess "bush meat" is just that. Primeaval slabs of chewy meat from which to extract protien. There are some elegant and tasty "deer looking" animals there I'd love to sink an arrow into.
Habitat is definitely reduced in Africa by population increase with too many kids. I can't imagine what regions you are thinking of. Even in the arctic polar bear habitat is reduced by higher temperatures that some people outside of Texas call "global warming".
It's possible to eat elephant. Elephants culled in South Africa are turned into "biltong" which is elephant jerky. Of course poachers don't bother. We have "bush meat too", deer, moose, wild boar, wild turkey, rabbit.
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Yea, I dont' think those two "scientists" in Sunoco lab coats are that credible either.
I'll never go an an African hunt, so I didn't earmark the country. But I know that there are some game preserves that are well managed. Unless it's all a big scam. All the same I'm a people first person. Africa is by and large F*$%ed up in terms of govt. natural resources, and infrastructure. Some say it will be the next big investment opportunity. I'm a sceptic.
That is going to bug me now. Where was that. I'm guessing South Africa and possibly Tanzania. My African geography is terrible. I remember hearing on a nature show or maybee a hunting show that in some areas elephants have made a comeback. That is all I know.
Having training in economics it's interesting to me that a market for adventure hunting could develpe in these areas which would be beneficial all around. So long as the incentives don't encourage poaching. Since the market is for the hunt rather than the animal products I think this is less likley. With the Rhino the horn is used in cultures that don't care that they are vanishing, The fewer there are the more valuable the horn is, the greater the incentive to hunt them. Then consider that the poachers could make several years wages on one horn. They see them as a nuisance because of crop damage. In Naked Economics they drew a parallel to the rest of the world taking a protective interest in the American urban rat.