Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: Stickboy on June 18, 2011, 01:15:32 am
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Where did they all go?! It seemed like when I was a kid, I could wander the farm and find a turkey feather every time I looked at the ground. Now, I can hike through the woods for hours and not see so much as a robin feather! Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong spots... Anyone have any ideas as to where in the woods to look? Streams? rocks? brush piles? I'm working on a pseudo-replica of a Cherokee arrow as a Father's Day gift for my dad, but actually finding the fletching myself is becoming a bit of a tie up...
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if you hunt them look where you would find then hens laying if you don't just keep looking where people say they are turkeys don't loose to many feathers these days unless they get infront of my dad brother or myself lol anywhoi if you need a few feathers me or someone else can alwayshelp you out for a quick arrow or somewhat but if the cherokee are anything like the choctow they also used anything from turkeys to geese to duck to crane and vulture feathers as well.
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...but don't mess with the feathers of vultures and possibly one species of crane. Check your local, state and federal regs!!!!!
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I see them laying in hay fields more than in the woods.
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...but don't mess with the feathers of vultures and possibly one species of crane. Check your local, state and federal regs!!!!!
vulture feathers make great fletching(and look great too!)-problem is, they are protected under the federal migratory bird act....unfortunately that makes em illegal no matter what state yr in.
http://www.fws.gov/laws/lawsdigest/migtrea.html (http://www.fws.gov/laws/lawsdigest/migtrea.html)
Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918: “Establishment of a Federal prohibition, unless permitted by regulations, to “pursue, hunt, take, capture, kill, attempt to take, capture or kill, possess, offer for sale, sell, offer to purchase, purchase, deliver for shipment, ship, cause to be shipped, deliver for transportation, transport, cause to be transported, carry, or cause to be carried by any means whatever, receive for shipment, transportation or carriage, or export, at any time, or in any manner, any migratory bird, included in the terms of this Convention . . . for the protection of migratory birds . . . or any part, nest, or egg of any such bird.” (16 U.S.C. 703)”
tho finding road kills(or random loose feathers) doesn't really fall here. there is no way to prove, once in possession, how you obtained the feathers. well, maybe take a photo of the roadkill....
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I have a couple roosting trees of valtures and was told a time back by a CO pick ups were fine to collect for fleching.(NOT SURE IF HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT) Back through the 80's I picked up and used them a lot. Now I only use the turkeys me and friends kill. I do get a lot of pick ups all winter scouting and cutting shoots I'll always check out roosting areas. I also pick up a lot of geese feathers when they molt in JUNE.
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I have a couple roosting trees of vultures and was told a time back by a CO pick ups were fine to collect for fleching.(NOT SURE IF HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT) Back through the 80's I picked up and used them a lot. Now I only use the turkeys me and friends kill. I do get a lot of pick ups all winter scouting and cutting shoots I'll always check out roosting areas. I also pick up a lot of geese feathers when they molt in JUNE.
have done lots more research since this was posted yesterday. and from everything i could find, it is indicated that just like hawks and eagles, there is no legal possession of vulture feathers(federal level), no matter how found(unless of course, you are card carrying member of a recognized na tribe). in fact, in many states you cannot legally possess turkey feathers nor deer/elk antlers unless you have the tag from your hunt. enforcement is typically not a big issue(except for the hawks. eagles and vultures mentioned in separate laws and taken much more seriously), but sometimes the penalties are rather severe(including jail time for protected species). we all know lots of folks who possess and use these items all the time. think of all the knife makers who use antler for handles...along with all the turkey feathers many of us use. nevertheless, it is good to be aware of the laws, and particularly your state regs. just in case....
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Wow...thanks for all the information, everyone! I think turkey feathers are okay here, but vultures and more protected birds aren't. I know I was never allowed to keep any buzzard feathers I found, but turkey and duck and such was okay. Used to have some laying about the house, but cats apparently like bird feathers. Who knew.
I'll check around some hay fields, and maybe an accessible lake nearby for some duck or goose feathers. My dog has flushed a few turkeys out of the woods, but didn't get close enough to cause a loss of feathers.
Jturkey, I think I've only been turkey hunting once or twice and didn't get anything, so they're defiantly safe from me! lol If it comes to it, I might take you up on some feathers. Thanks for the offer!
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Ask some local turkey hunters to help you find some roost sites if they will share that info with ya? I always find lots of feathers right under roost site and I'll tell you why I think this happens.
Turkeys like to preen alot and fluff their feathers, preening means taking oil from the preening gland just under the base of the tail and spreading the oil on their feathers to make them water proof and keeps their feathers shiny and managable on those humid days.
Anyway, while doing their primping they knock loose feathers that are ready to fall out because they are always shedding the old feathers and growing new ones. So while they are on the roost I believe this is when they do some if not most of their primping and preening while they are up off the ground and there's less chance of being caught off guard by predators. When the feathers get knocked loose they fall to the ground, and they also fall off during fly up and fly down when they beat their wings against the tree limbs to and from the roosting perch.
That's my theory anyway, it may not be true but makes perfect sense to me. At any rate, find a roost site and I guarantee you will find feathers.
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I guess it's a good thing I don't use them anymore. I even had a warden check out my bow and arrows one day back in the late 80's. The arrows had buzzards and turkey feathers on them. EITHER HE DID'NT KNOW OR DID'NT CARE. Turkey feathers are ok in WV. I agree with SEMO in that I think turkey feathers found at roost areas are from fly ups and down. Look for open areas at roost sites where they'll fly to or on the uper side of a hill or ridge or along fild edges if they roost along the fields. I hardy ever find feathers right under the roost trees. The ones you do are like SEMO says the hit on limbs flying up and are pulled out. And he's right they do peen to water proff.
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I didn't know that about the preening; I figured they did preen, but didn't know it was for waterproofing. Neat. I have a suspicion of a few roosting spots nearby, but I don't know many hunters around here that are interested in turkey...they use their energies on deer.
Thanks for the info! Seems to me to make sense about loosing feathers at the roost.
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Kentucky has a crap load of turkey so it shouldn't be a problem finding feathers I wouldn't think? Just ask around and surely somebody will hook you up with some.
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We do have a lot of turkeys here, but I don't have much of a network of people who hunt here yet. Up where my folks live, I know several people who do, but I don't get back to see them often.
I found some feathers that should make fitting substitutes for the turkey, so arrow-making will start tonight. Hopefully I don't mess anything up too badly... ;)
SadieJane: You''ve got me wondering about the "Migratory Bird Act": I assume hunting geese is legal (at least, from all I've heard, it is), and since geese are a migratory bird making it illegal to possess any part/product of a thusly-protected bird, how is it legal to hunt them? And if hunting them, wouldn't it make sense to keep the feathers and use as much of the kill as possible? The same would apply to ducks, I suppose... Did you happen to come across anything about how that figures into the reckoning of the Act? I think I would be pretty agitated if I harvested a duck or goose, then used the feathers for fletching and wound up getting arrested for having them...
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as difficult is is to swallow sometimes, you are correct. the federal migratory bird act includes ducks and geese. but there is a provision for these birds as there are legal hunting seasons. it appears, from what i've been able to find out, that duck and goose feathers also need to have yr hunting permit/tag or whatever your state dispenses to show you legally hunted these birds.
this is taken directly from a govt sites FAQ page
"Some key provisions of the Act are worth keeping in mind:
* Wording of the Act makes it very clear that most actions that result in "taking" or possession of a protected species or its parts or products is a violation of the Act. Specifically, the Act states:
"Unless and except as permitted by regulations, …it shall be unlawful at any time, by any means, or in any manner…to pursue, hunt, take, capture, kill, …possess, offer for sale, sell, …purchase, import…any migratory bird, any part, nest, or eggs of any such bird…"
* It is a "strict-liability" law, meaning that there is no requirement for law enforcement agencies to prove "intent" to violate the law. That is, if you are found in possession of a protected species or its parts or products, you are automatically in violation of the law.
* The provisions of the Act are nearly absolute; "...except as permitted by regulations ..." is the only exception. Some examples of permitted activities that do not violate the law are legal hunting of specific game birds, legitimate research activities, display in licensed zoological gardens, and bird banding under an appropriate permit.
* The Act covers the great majority (83%) of all native birds found in the U.S. Many of the species not covered by the Act are covered by the Endangered Species Act , other Federal laws, or state laws, many of which are as stringent as the Migratory Bird Treaty Act . In the lower 48 states, all species except the house sparrow, feral pigeon, common starling, and non-migratory game birds like pheasants, gray partridge, and sage grouse, are protected.
* Penalties upon conviction can be severe. "
please know i am not trying to scare anyone. have no agenda relating to this, nor necessarily agree nor abide by it completely(i do have the good fortune to be a card carrying member of my tribe, which exempts me from these regulations, to a degree). it just seems necessary for all of us who share these interests to have a good understanding of laws we may not even know pertain to our pursuits.
now after all that. geese are molting right now, and esp in urban areas, are quite plentiful(and are no longer "migratory" in many urban areas-have even become downright pests-seems the law should be re-examined in regard to this fact). goose feathers make good fletching, can be legally hunted and the feathers can be legally possessed with different degrees of permits(or none at all) depending on yr respective state. if you are concerned or want to make sure whats legal in your state, contact yr local wildlife management folks to find out what they require. dont be surprised if they have no clue and must get back to you after they find out for themselves.
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All migratory birds fall under Federal guidlines including ducks, geese, doves, and even crows.. That only means that the seasons and limits are set by Federal wildlife management and not your local state conservation agencies. If you bought your migratory bird permit that covers all species that migrate, but for ducks and geese or any waterfowl for that matter there are more permits to buy and then you are only allowed a certain number of each species per day and there's also a posession limit in your freezer. I don't think you would get busted for using goose feathers as fletchings as long as you can show where you got them. Lots of guys use goose feathers on their arrows, but you aren't allowed to sell them as far as I know. But you can use them for your own purposes.
I'm not sure if you would need a permit to have goose feathers for arrow fletchings, but a simple phone call to your states conservation department would answer those questions.
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Awesome. Thanks for all the help and information! Yesterday, I had a conversation about the migratory bird thing with a fella at work who does a lot of hunting. He was saying that since geese and ducks are classified as a "game species" (at least here), they are sort of exempt from that possession rule.
Started my arrows with goose feather fletching today. Hope to be shooting by tomorrow.
Thanks again for everything!
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That's kinda what I was thinking too Stick, they aren't endangered by any means just regulated and there is a term called "Wanton Waste" which means deliberately wasting edible portions of meat or other useable parts of an animal. Example would be killing a whitetail deer and just cutting the back straps out and leaving the rest, or cutting the head gear off and leaving the meat to rot, that's called Wanton Waste and it's illegal in most states. I know it sure is here and if the MDC catches you doing it you'll get a huge fine and maybe some shock time in jail.
With that explanation I just gave, there's no reason why any regulatory agency state or federal would want the feathers or any other part of a game bird to go to waste. As a matter of fact they should commend someone for using ever part of an animal or bird so nothing goes to waste. That's how the Indians were, they didn't waste anything, not even the bones they all had a purpose and they thought it was sacrilage or an insult to their Creator to waste anything. I still see it that way myself.
Glad you got some feathers and I hope your arrows turn out real good for ya.
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Commendation would be nice, but I'm just glad some folks are able to make use of something that might just set around and become wasted potential.
I decided to take a break on the replica arrow, and work on my set of target arrows. I think I would rather have made and messed up/learned from a set, before trying to make a nice one to gift. Only have one done right now; but so far, the goose feathers seem to be working great. Might try to do some target practice tomorrow, see how they work out.
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ebay you can find all you want!