Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: half eye on June 13, 2011, 12:58:32 pm

Title: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: half eye on June 13, 2011, 12:58:32 pm
Hey fellas,
      Made a couple of trades here lately, and was makin bows for my end of them. The bows were wanted in the upper 50's for weight but both of these came in at about 50# so instead of throwing everything in the re-do for kids pile.....thought I'd try a "fix".
      The bow in the photo's is an Ottawa style, and is a self-backed american elm (grey elm). it was all tillered out and shootin pretty well, but was light. I took the bow and ran it through a thickness planer (on the belly side) to make sure it was flat and to remove the champhers from the scallops as well. I then glued on a 1/8" planed hard maple backer strip on the belly side and induced a small amount of reflex. ( I use TBII for all my glue joints)
       I'm going to be curious as to the effects of this. I hope that the high compression hard maple adds weight and speed......without overpowering the back.....I guess we'll see.

will keep ya informed, thought that some of you might be interested in this as a way to maybe "fix" a similiar problem.......assuming that it works in the first place.
rich
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......hope it works
Post by: Del the cat on June 13, 2011, 01:00:15 pm
Interesting to see if bellying it rather than backing it does the job.
Del
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......hope it works
Post by: half eye on June 13, 2011, 01:08:27 pm
Del,
     The bow was allready "self-backed" and I have not had good experience with double backers......hench the high compression belly lamination.  By self-backed I mean that I cut a strip from the original stave's back and rotate it 180 degrees and glue it right back on.
      It's the only reason for coming up with this half-backed idea.....but it seems to make sense in theroy anyhow. We'll find out when the "bend hits the wood".
rich
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......hope it works
Post by: Lee Slikkers on June 13, 2011, 01:10:42 pm
Nice "tri-lam" build Rich  :D

Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......hope it works
Post by: johnston on June 13, 2011, 07:08:21 pm
You Go Big Daddy ;D

Lane
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......hope it works
Post by: fusizoli on June 13, 2011, 07:17:54 pm
All your backing glued with TBII?  I'M interested how much drying time it needs?

Lots of other guy use TBIII for laminateing, why do U choosed this one? Sorry for the direct question :)
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......hope it works
Post by: half eye on June 13, 2011, 07:37:01 pm
fusizoli,
      I like the titebond II because the set time is longer, and while not water"proof" it is ok for outdoor use. I (personal opinion only) think it gives a better bond, and the longer "cure" time doesn't bother the old retired guy.
      I never had a glue failure by using it.
rich
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......hope it works
Post by: dragonman on June 13, 2011, 07:48:38 pm
good luck with this one , sounds like a good solution to the problem, should work
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......hope it works
Post by: hillbilly61 on June 13, 2011, 08:54:37 pm
 Real nice Rich. I too use TBII for my backings. Had 1 separate, but that was do to me not gluing one area :-\  Looking forward to seeing how this turns out.
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......hope it works
Post by: beetlebailey1977 on June 13, 2011, 11:54:10 pm
Can't wait for the results!
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......hope it works
Post by: Almostpighunter on June 14, 2011, 04:35:14 am
Very cool! Frankly it never would have occurred to me to put a reinforcement on the belly of the bow....ever. First a 30# deer killer and now this...............

I tell ya...you rebellious kids and yer new-fangled-techo-primitive-googly-moogly ideas!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......hope it works
Post by: fusizoli on June 14, 2011, 12:19:20 pm
fusizoli,
      I like the titebond II because the set time is longer, and while not water"proof" it is ok for outdoor use. I (personal opinion only) think it gives a better bond, and the longer "cure" time doesn't bother the old retired guy.
      I never had a glue failure by using it.
rich

Thanks Rich!
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: half eye on June 14, 2011, 12:30:38 pm
Here are the full draw pics from the hard maple belly lamination experiment. 2 full draw pics the first is one way the second is the bow "flipped" over....I like #2 better and will make that the top limb.

The bare shaft in the pic is 28" long but the fella draws 29" I dont have an arrow shaft that long but ya can get the idea. The bow was 50# at 29" before the maple and now it's just about 60# @ 29. After the small amount of re-tillering. So I guess it works.....at least this time ;D
rich
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on June 14, 2011, 01:24:08 pm
Nice Rich!
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: ErictheViking on June 14, 2011, 01:39:41 pm
too cool rich, makes me wonder if you can overpower a belly lam with a thhick backing if the twoo woods are the same or close to the same SG. (that is just me wondering not saying it can't)
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: hillbilly61 on June 14, 2011, 03:10:42 pm
Un Friggin real. Honestly, I can't tell the 2 pics apart.
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: johnston on June 14, 2011, 07:36:59 pm
Looking at the pic's very closely I can't help but notice that this is what is meant by "perfect tiller". Way cool experiment old dog you 'da man.

Lane
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: ken75 on June 15, 2011, 12:54:58 am
thanks for the post Rich answers some questions. great bow and excellent full draw !
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: Bow Nut on June 15, 2011, 02:06:05 pm
Very interesting never would have thought to add a lam to the belly my self either.  lookes like it worked out great.  Thanks for posting this.  Learn somthing new everyday on here.
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: toomanyknots on June 15, 2011, 04:09:05 pm
Damn Rich that turned out great.
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: George Tsoukalas on June 15, 2011, 05:39:03 pm
Looks great, half eye. Jawge
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: half eye on June 15, 2011, 06:54:39 pm
Thanks for the gratious comments, fellas....we'll see what the new owner thinks, eh?
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: fusizoli on June 15, 2011, 07:22:44 pm
Learning something again. Like this kind of post a lot!

After glue up, how much time it needs to start the work with again?

The maple lam was heat treated?
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: half eye on June 15, 2011, 08:31:53 pm
fusizoli,
      I all ways let my Tite-Bond II cure out for 24 hrs before I stress the glue joint. If I glue on a grip riser etc. I'll rough cut it to shape maybe 4-6 hours after glue-up but that is it.
      I do not heat treat wood (like with a heat gun) weather it lives or fails, I allways use the wood just the way it is. The only thing that I do to help the belly withstand compression (or the back with tension) for a longer time is apply a mixture of pitch and grease (50/50 mix) just prior to tillering and for as long as the bow lives after that.
      Also if you use any of the titebond glues, and then try to heat treat you will make the joint go weak or come apart alltogether.
That's just how I do it.....maybe some of the other fellas know more "tricks" than I do.
rich
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: MWirwicki on June 15, 2011, 10:35:40 pm
Great idea!  Will have to try this myself.  Great post.
Title: Re: Experiment to fix a bow problem......(Results are in)
Post by: fusizoli on June 16, 2011, 10:20:31 am
Thanks Rich for all the information from your methods!

I ve meant pre treated, not after glue up. :)

Cheers Z