Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Lee Slikkers on June 12, 2011, 05:02:07 pm
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Ever since I read that Flowering Dogwood is a real good bow wood I have been on the look out for something to meet my needs. Finally found a healthy mature one with some sizeable wideths to work with...
Both logs are 80" long, they are both now debarked and sealed with shellac...would have liked to split the stuff but has anyone tried splitting this wood before? Makes splitting mature Osage feel like a cake walk!
Enjoy~
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PZlyx3LZ4q8/TfUFTGrvlqI/AAAAAAAAB8U/cSwwsqysNP4/s912/DSCI0001.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Jv03rEUhkgo/TfUFaS3BvXI/AAAAAAAAB8Y/oLmyrZqtKnI/s640/DSCI0002.JPG)
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dog wood is some great bow wood..and you have some nice logs..the bark looks differant than what i have seen here in oregon..i cant wait to see it done...john
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Nice looking logs,but if you don't split them now from my experience it will only get worse and will
take forever to dry. :) Should make several fine bows. :)
Pappy
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That "dogwood" looking elm to me ;)
Shure it is not dogwood (cornus mas or cornus sangifolia I use here)
But it looking very simillar the elm I use.
Anyway if it is elm, the bigger log have perfect ring ratio for a warbow and the other one looking good too. Take care with spliting, elm could make tricky things.
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Lee:
They look more like hickory to me...?
Might be some type of Dogwood that don't grow in my locality.
David
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Naw, they are definitely Dogwood. I cut some smaller Dogwood saplings from this same stand and this one was surrounded by nothing but Maple and you could still see fairly fresh dogwood flower petals all over the ground around the tree. The Saplings all had much smoother bark but somewhere between 2"-3" and this size the bark really seemed to change...unless its a Dogwood hybrid of some sort. I have two saplings debarked and drying and you can see that the wood under the bark on all these are the same tree type. These large ones have little, sharp "teats" all up and down the entire tree once you get it debarked.
I'll snap some pics of them up close all debarked and you will be able too see what I mean. I need to go but a sledge, my 2 boys ran off with mine in the woods last week and can't find it and they are on a road trip for 10 days so I have no other choice than to break down and buy a new one.
I also just got in form cutting a real nice diameter Black Locust so I'll get those three logs debarked and snap some shots of those while I am at it...
Thanks!
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Dogwood is very very reare with this dia and have tight rings. The fast growing cornus sangifolia has max 2-3mm or less (colored like chiken meat) and the harder C mas have tight rings like yew or buxus and a log like this is over 150 years old for shure. Newer saw any cornus with this kind of fat rings but could be another type I haven't know.
(http://www.natural-pregnancy-mentor.com/images/elm-bark.jpg)
http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/4141/PreviewComp/SuperStock_4141-50150.jpg
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Looking arround on net for some other kind of dogwoods and ound really big trees from flowering dogwood (florida)
But it has other kind of bark, as the others too.
http://www.google.hu/search?hl=hu&client=firefox-a&hs=Qtr&rls=org.mozilla:hu:official&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=T1P2TZv-MoaM-wausK3LDw&ved=0CBsQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=582&q=dogwood%20bark%20pic
Just like to help ;)
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The leaves from ours do not have the serrated edges...they are smooth, and almost a gloss like appearance. Here is a pic off the net of the same leaf this tree had...
(http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.cas.vanderbilt.edu/bioimages/c/wcofl2-lf11614.jpg&sa=X&ei=YlX2TaPJD-yv0AHevf3fBg&ved=0CAQQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNEojEiXBl9QzQEKpuWzJADNPgMZLw)
Here is shot of the bark listed for F. Dogwood as well...very similar to what you saw on my logs...
(http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Ge2qq_k2U3M/S9ysDV8qvAI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/pAf38VDFRkk/P1000445.JPG&sa=X&ei=GFb2TZDeI9Ox0AGlsMzrDA&ved=0CAQQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNFK4_unlxQoM1HFuez9ohjFua0K9w)
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Hey Lee, all the C. florida I've ever cut has wood that is almost pink. Also, the bark is in scales like the last pic you just posted. Hard to tell from the angle of the pic of your logs, but the bark almost seems to have long deep furrows like an elm. Either way you're gonna have some good bow wood.
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Yes the leaves U ve posted is looking dogwood, but agree with Joathan on that bark thing.
Hope will have the answer soon :)
(I vote for elm, if looking for the bark and the inner wood)
Cheers Z
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Here's my two cents,
The bark you have on those logs are furrowed. Flowering dogwood has scales,and when it gets that big in diameter the bark really scales more and looks more peeling and scaley than when its younger. Im almost positive by the bark I.d. that whatever it is,is not dogwood. There might have been dogwood around the tree you cut and dropped its petals by it,but that doesn't mean it came from that tree.
Who knows...its always tough to id wood online,without seeing it with your own naked eye. We also can't see the leaves and what type of pattern they were.
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I wouldn't call it hickory either ..it has no heartwood....certainly doesn't look like dogwood to me..probably best anyway..dogwood takes more set than most woods...my guess is possibly sourwood from the pics.....gut
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Im with you Lee...that looks like Dogwood:-)
Sizable Dogwood trees in my parts of the world (Denmark) get that kind of bark and exactly that colour and texture wood:-)
Coincidently I was arrow/bow stave hunting in a dogwood thicket yesterday and I took these pics:
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af73/Holten101/IMAG0019.jpg)
(http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af73/Holten101/IMAG0018.jpg)
Now there were bigger trunks (had I only known about this post;-), and the bigger they get the coarser the bark, until they reach what your pics show.
Could very well be dogwood....looks like it to me anyway.
Cheers
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Actually Holten and Me living in Europe and here we have two kind of dogwood which good for bows. On Holten's pic is cornus sangifolia (nice old ones) it growes max 3-4 inch and colored like white meat inside....as wrote in my other post etc. It is a very good arrow shaft material too, on the heavy side.
The other type is Cornus Mas. It growes biger but slower about 4-5 was the biggest I ve seen and looking for a lot because use it for hornbows and try to find a 75 long warbow piece too. The clean straight 50-long part is very rare! Better chance with cornus sangifolia here.
It has bigger piles like sangifolia.
Non of tham looking like yours there, just the leaves like U posted. All of tham like to growe up very near under other trees because the birds eat the fruits and sitting on the tree after that.... u know what I mean :) Than the cornus bush going to bigger and bigger and surround the tree. Not often but have seen that sometimes.
So I'm not agree in this with Holten :)
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Lee , I'm looking out my window at 4 vertical dogwoods that look just like your logs.
'Course I'm way down south...
ChinaBerry! ;D
Lane
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Well, you all have me totally confused now on the bark thing but that leaf pic I posted is the same leaf of the tree...no confusion about that in my mind.
Here are some shots of it debarked and my "attempt" to split it...wailed on like a 450lb linebacked with 4 wedges and an 8lb sledge and this is as far as I got. Look at how it spindles and holds together (made all my other Osage splits seem like child's play) so I gave it a rest. Not sure how I am gonna split these suckers!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pcjtYjYe_v8/TfZy0UVbV6I/AAAAAAAAB-s/MgBlCeJR53I/s800/DSCI0006.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KrGWozdSE1o/TfZy6NS-5iI/AAAAAAAAB-w/vOdG19wioNk/s800/DSCI0007.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-AY5WZwm1LLY/TfZy_3pCaUI/AAAAAAAAB-0/sfC6H6Iqj7Q/s800/DSCI0008.JPG)
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Lee,
To me that looks a lot like a gum, sweetgum to be exact. Both the bark and the wood, and all the little pin-knots underneath it, PLUS the fact that it is kicking your ash to split it. Sounds like sweetgum to me. On the bright side - if it IS sweetgum, I've heard it will make a decent bow if you can get it split and worked down.
CP
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That is how an Elm likes ( or should I say dislikes) to bust.
Well, Whatever it is ??? it looks as if it will make a bow.
If you can get it busted that it. ;D
David
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Had my eye on some Black Locust that were growing near an old vehicle repair shop so I pulled in total and asked if they minded me cutting one. "Huh?" was mostly what I got be when I broke it down to "can I cut one of those smaller trees down" I received a shrugged shoulder and "sure, knock yourself out" so...
I now have 12 nice B. Locust stave split, debarked, sealed and ready to sit in a corner to season for awhile. I ended up with 4 staves that measure 80" and 8 staves at 68"
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5r3fnmtykrM/TfZyPIDhRSI/AAAAAAAAB-Y/WKhDCr85NJI/s800/DSCI0001.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5r3fnmtykrM/TfZyPIDhRSI/AAAAAAAAB-Y/WKhDCr85NJI/s800/DSCI0001.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iGbFLfXFca8/TfZyVfYEDVI/AAAAAAAAB-c/orzT39eVvOw/s800/DSCI0002.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hkacYfVGi5A/TfZyaRy23fI/AAAAAAAAB-g/Ariz9zU66Tg/s800/DSCI0003.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-E6q7ZKzoFKM/TfZygNrhK4I/AAAAAAAAB-k/AQwKev2uw3s/s800/DSCI0004.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ONNYEUZ-Fuc/TfZyrfrB3ZI/AAAAAAAAB-o/BAYbxRRApT4/s800/DSCI0005.JPG)
Enjoy~
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HAH
thats elm my friend as I ve told 8) It looking we have the same kind of forest here.
U have some great bow material there! Just the spliting suc*s >:D
Seal the back of the lochust too! It will crack without the bark ;)
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Now that is some good looking Black Locust.
SEAL IT, SEAL IT GOOD, Seal it three four or even five times if you are using poly.
David
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HAH
thats elm my friend as I ve told 8) It looking we have the same kind of forest here.
U have some great bow material there! Just the spliting suc*s >:D
So Elm has those little 'tits" all down the wood? It is VERY dense stuff, I can only imagine if this stuff that this much effort to split then it HAS to be good bow wood.
Thanks for setting me straight. Got a pic of an Elm leaf? Now I'm really confounded about the whole scenario.
Thanks!
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Now that is some good looking Black Locust.
SEAL IT, SEAL IT GOOD, Seal it three four or even five times if you are using poly.
David
Thanks David...got 2 coats of shellac on them but I'll add a few more for good measure. Appreciate the tip.
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Good score on the BL man! Looks awesome!
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Just use google search "elm pic" "elm tree pic"
Schould close out red elm.
Yes it have those "tits" under the bark ( schould sand tham down rounded) . The bark could pull down in one piece and schould make a nice quiver from.
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Keep the BL in a moist dark environment for the first few months seeing how you left the sapwood on. And keep an eye on it. It still might want to check even if you coated it. I've done this with BL and it worked out fine,I just had to keep an eye on it and in a high humidity environment for the first couple months.
Man your really stacking up the wood Lee. Keep it up.
And on elm or any other interlocking grain wood I snap a chalkline and kerf cut it with a circular saw to open it up. Just hang on for dear life with both hands and always stand off to the side with both feet. >:D
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I actually went back where I cut my "mystery tree" and snipped of a branch with leaves on it. Boys took my camera and the one they left me seems to have a mind of it's own, shoots 5 pics and if turned off it acts like it had dead batteries (which isn't the case, just put fresh ones in) anyway...I'd like to post those pics of the leave, bud configuration to help get a for sure ID on this sucker.
Blackhawk, I think I did take off all the sapwood, came off with the bark...or is that considered something else? I have em in the basement as I type this. Wood is good and more wood is better! I don't want to be where I am this year (with a BAD bow building bug) and not have cured wood on hand to play with...
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Looks like you just took the bark and cambium off. I see white sapwood still on them. And the heartwood is the darker brown. Just like Osage. You'll have to remove the sapwood and chase a ring down in the heartwood like Osage.
I haven't finished a bow in awhile because I've been doing the same thing this spring. Collecting wood and prepping it so ill have a good dry stash to work with this winter. I got almost caught up to my dry wood and I was down to like 4 dry staves. I had to take a break from knocking em out to go get more wood while stuff cures. Oh the madness of trying to always have a rotating wood hoard >:D. I LOVE IT
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Blackhawk, gotcha...I was mixed up in what you were asking...yup all the sapwood is on, didn't have anymore "go juice" in me to bother DK'ing off 12 sticks worth of sapwood.
OK, I hate belaboring a point but I finally got the camera working and was able to download the single pic I got before she puked again. Now, I've looked through every Goggle image page on Elm I can find and none have smooth edged leaves like this stuff. Not saying it isn't Elm but it sure doesn't seem like the correct leaf nor do they come off in a group like this...
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-37RaSFFsxMg/TfeBpftZsuI/AAAAAAAAB_8/z7H9l44xX78/s800/DSCI0001.JPG)
Thanks guys...Just trying to figure this wood out so I know what style/layout this stuff can handle.
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Definatly not elm...the lack of distinct heartwood also point in other directions than elm. The leafs looks like Dogwood...but the Dogwood I have access to dont cluster like that. My bet is still on Dogwood tho...even if most of you guys disagree with me;-).
Cheers
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I know its not cornus florida aka flowering dogwood. If it is a dogwood it looks close to corpus alternifolia aka alternate-leaf dogwood. But the leaves you show are clustered and makes it a little confusing. But its bark is somewhat furrowed and it grows up to 8" diameter. If it is that then its a monster for that species. It fruits in early fall and there colors are deep blue to almost black and around 1/4" in dia. Flowering dogwoods fruit turn red. So if you don't know and can't figure out what it is then you can go back and see its fruit to id it.
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Lee I want a piece of that BL. In exchange I'll send you some blackgum ;D.
Good haul, man,really good.
Lane
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Blackgum. That is what I am thinking the mystery wood is now.
Seal the back (bark side) and the ends of that Black locust.
Seal the ends all the way around and about 4" up.
Keep it out of the sun and wind.
Don't put it some place that gets hotter than outside temperature. At least not for 6 months or so.
David
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Lee I want a piece of that BL. In exchange I'll send you some blackgum ;D.
Good haul, man,really good.
Lane
Lane, sorry...not sure I can find a good use for Blackgum ::)
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Blackgum. That is what I am thinking the mystery wood is now.
Seal the back (bark side) and the ends of that Black locust.
Seal the ends all the way around and about 4" up.
Keep it out of the sun and wind.
Don't put it some place that gets hotter than outside temperature. At least not for 6 months or so.
David
Thanks David, I looked up Blackgum and about 30 other similar leafed trees but none seem to match. I know that folks don't think the bark matches Dogwood and even the cluster of leaves doesn't look like a perfect match I personally am still 95% in the Dogwood camp.
I sealed the B. Locust just like you mentioned, even up the ends 3-4" and they are in my basement where I promise (Scout's Honor) not to touch them until Christmas. I have learned the hard way about trying to use wood that is still too green. Wasted a nice Lilac stave by rushing it... ::)
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Lee, could U make a closer pic from the growth rings?
That leave trick me out ;D ::)
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Lee, dogwood leaves are simple, opposite leaves and the pic you got there is a palmately coumpound leaf. I dont think its dogwood, but it aint elm either, with all that interlocking grain it would have to make a decent bow though. Like others have said, keep a close eye on that locust sapwood, it can and will split all over the place if not taken care of.
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Lee, could U make a closer pic from the growth rings?
That leave trick me out ;D ::)
Zoltan, here is a pic of the rings, not a great one...a bit blurry and the shellac hides a lot of the contrast. I would have taken more but the camera puked on me again after 2 pics >:(
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CKsoqrPgdkM/TfjHoOBGtBI/AAAAAAAACBc/Cvh2J14XCPk/s800/DSCI0002.JPG)
Okie64, I know...the compound leaves have me stumped. Locust is REALLY sealed and in the basement, can't wait to try some out.
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Good shot >:D The wood is behind the box? ;D
Lochust needs the same drying time and protection as osage. So U have a year or more to figure out what to make from those.
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Good shot >:D The wood is behind the box? ;D
Lochust needs the same drying time and protection as osage. So U have a year or more to figure out what to make from those.
Zoltan, sorry about the incorrect pic (wasn't a good shot but it was a "cold" shot...still learning a new boo back boo AND learning how to shoot Traditional) anyway...the pic is now corrected.
I'll leave this Locust be and won't touch it. I should probably go back and get more...these drying times are killing me and I don't like not having cured wood on hand.
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You promise not too touch it till next year .... :D
If you don't have dry wood,then keep cutting it till you do have dry wood ;D
And I still can't say 100 % for sure what type of wood that is. It does look close to black tupelo aka blackgum,sourgum too tho. But those clustered leaves?
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Those leaves look like a dead ringer for Hickory to me.
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Thats the same wood we talking about?
I remember fat rings...
Anyway this looking an unknown wood to me. Next time better to say nothing :-X ::)
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Dogwood is very very reare with this dia and have tight rings. The fast growing cornus sangifolia has max 2-3mm or less (colored like chiken meat) and the harder C mas have tight rings like yew or buxus and a log like this is over 150 years old for shure. Newer saw any cornus with this kind of fat rings but could be another type I haven't know.
(http://www.natural-pregnancy-mentor.com/images/elm-bark.jpg)
http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/4141/PreviewComp/SuperStock_4141-50150.jpg
That picture you have posted looks like elm we have here Fusizoli, don't know if it's the same where you are or not?
I recognized the leaves anywhere, sawtooth edge and feels sticky like sand paper.
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Lee for what it's worth, that cluster of leaves you posted isn't from any dogwood I've ever seen before. It more resembles something in the hickory nut family but for some reason I can't postitively ID it either. The leaves are compound, smooth edged, glossy, and 6 to a cluster and that resembles something in the nut family of trees. I've seen a bunch of those around here where I live, but I'll be damned if I can find one on the net that looks exactly like it so I can make a positive ID. I'll keep looking and digging and see what I can come up with............check back later.
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Thanks Chris...I guess the reason it is driving me nuts is that I cut down a small dogwood sapling 2 weeks that had the same leaves (don't know if they were compounded, didn't look close since they were blossoming then) and then I find this sucker and it's the only tree for 80 yds that ISN'T a Maple and there are the same blossom peddles on the ground and the leaf looks exactly the same. I guess in the big picture it doesn't really matter...it's a tree, wood seems good but it will bother me. ;D
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Lee I wasn't really trying to trade. It was a rare kind hearted offer to help you out. With that "mystery" wood to split you need something to practice on and nothing would be better than gum to get you all tuned up >:D ;D
Lane
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No problem Lane, I didn't figure you were...
It isn't hard to gum me up.
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I pulled my Audubon Field Guide out and what you cut looks just like a Flowering Dogwood to me. It says they grow up to 30' tall and 8" in diameter, kind a like the 50 year old one I cut down in my front yard.