Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Marz5 on June 03, 2011, 06:03:22 pm
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I have just started making my first bow and I have some questions ???
First I'd like to share where share where I'm at in my project, as you can see in the pics I've layed out the bow, cut it out, and yesterday I started to ruff out the belly, all in all not alot. the current measurements of it are 72 3/8 in long, approx. 50mm wide at the grip and approx. 17mm wide at the tips. I want the weight to end up under 110#, w/ my min goal is about 80#
The thing is that while I'm able to avoid all of the knots except maybe 1, they are becoming a pain in my side (btw I'm using a drawknife to do this).
So how can I can get rid of of these knots in an easier (and less back-breaking) fashion?
Mark R.
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Any and all comments, advice, ect. is greatly appreciated.
Mark R.
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welcome, it looks great so far, and with the knots, unless you cut the shape of the bow out with a band saw, a draw knife is probably the best way to go
good luck
noel
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If done by hand use either an axe, (preferably a side axe), or an adze. Axes were the traditional tool of the bowyer, James Duff writes of using one in his book "Bows and Arrows"
Craig.
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I'm also building an ERC bow right now and the knots are a real pain. They explode when I try em with my draw knife. I've been having the best luck with saturating them with CA glue paring them down with a very sharp chisel working at them from both directions a bit at a time.
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I'm also building an ERC bow right now and the knots are a real pain. They explode when I try em with my draw knife. I've been having the best luck with saturating them with CA glue paring them down with a very sharp chisel working at them from both directions a bit at a time.
Not being from North America, I have no Idea about ERC or the difficulties you speak of, but if the knots behave as you say I would suggest that the axe/adze I spoke of are not the way to go so please disregard the advice when it comes to dealing with them. What about rasps, files and saws do they also cause the knots to explode?
Craig
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I'm also building an ERC bow right now and the knots are a real pain. They explode when I try em with my draw knife. I've been having the best luck with saturating them with CA glue paring them down with a very sharp chisel working at them from both directions a bit at a time.
Not being from North America, I have no Idea about ERC or the difficulties you speak of, but if the knots behave as you say I would suggest that the axe/adze I spoke of are not the way to go so please disregard the advice when it comes to dealing with them. What about rasps, files and saws do they also cause the knots to explode?
Craig
Rasps, files and saws all work fine, but I'm a woodcarver by trade so I have a tendency to think in terms of chisels first. I tend to forget I have rasps. ::) ;D
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#1, for and ERC stave that is NOT a lot of knots and I'd kill to get a piece that "clear". I just tried a longbow from the stuff as well, had 60+ knots but she blew on me (had a knot running out the side of the stave) so all in all I think you have a very nice, workable piece of ERC. 80lbs sounds like a pretty high poundage goal for ERC but maybe it's possible with a piece of wood as nice as yours...good luck and keep us posted on your progress if you can.
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Mark,
ERC is tough wood to build your first bow out of. That is a beautiful stave though. If I were you I'd be letting that one season a while longer and looking for some other local bow wood to get my feet wet with. Hickory, Ironwood, mulberry, osage, elm (and probably others) are all easier to build bows with than ERC. That's just my opinion, but if you want to go cedar, this is the best place to get your information. I'm an osage guy so I can't help you much from experience. I've been watching for a straight, clear cedar branch out at my deer lease. So far I haven't found it.
Good luck,
George
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Mark,
ERC is tough wood to build your first bow out of. That is a beautiful stave though. If I were you I'd be letting that one season a while longer and looking for some other local bow wood to get my feet wet with. Hickory, Ironwood, mulberry, osage, elm (and probably others) are all easier to build bows with than ERC. That's just my opinion, but if you want to go cedar, this is the best place to get your information. I'm an osage guy so I can't help you much from experience. I've been watching for a straight, clear cedar branch out at my deer lease. So far I haven't found it.
Good luck,
George
I'm using the cedar because all my oak and maple are on the bottom of the lumber stack and the cedar was easy to get to. It's a half round from a log I had cut into lumber about three years ago and has been air drying in my shop all that time. By the time I roughed it in on the band saw I only had one knot to deal with, so that made me happy. It seems to be going well so far. Like I said I saturated it with CA glue and didn't have any trouble paring it down with a chisel after that. I basically have no money invested in this piece of wood as the sawyer had thrown it in the burn pile. If it fails I'll have learned a lot from it, and if it doesn't it's a bonus. Building this bow has been very relaxing for me and that's all I really care about at this point. BTW I have a whole stack of 2" slabs from the same tree and I bet I can get you a couple of mostly knot free staves out of it. They're drying out at a friend's farm and I'm heading over that way next week so I'll see if I can't pull some likely candidates.
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Sounds good to me. ;D I can repay with seasoned osage.
George
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Id back it with a piece of rawhide at the very least. And a good rasp works great at any stage with ERC except final tillering,then go to a sandblock and enjoy the aroma.
But if I were you I would set it aside and get your feet wet with some other type of wood first. That's no beginners wood and its a beautiful piece of wood id hate to see get ruined. It can be a fooler wood,you'll think its going smooth,and great then BOOM. Especially if your tillers off and you don't know it,which is easy for a novice to not see. Im not trying to dissuade you,im just speaking from a semi experienced bowyers opinion.
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Stretch: I think wires got crossed, my name is Mark also... I usually sign: --Mark R.
The knots are a pain but they haven't exploded (maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant by "explode")
George: I got this piece for just under 15$ on ebay (it is a pain to get other woods off of ebay minus yew) I figured that it would be a good piece to work on before I go on to my piece of yew (also an ebay buy, good price too 35$ ish for the stave) I was trying to get some red elm but I kept getting sniped
Blackhawk: I'm enjoying the smell already, and I was thinking about just backing it w/ good old thin air but I might back it
I'm taking all comments into consideration and will decide soon on what I'll do :)
--Mark R.
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Stretch: I think wires got crossed...
Yea, but it was all good. :)
Did those ebay prices include shipping?? If so, I don't know how they did it. About the cheapest I've ever shipped an osage stave for is $15. I know cedar is lighter, but still... If you're anywhere near Dallas come by and I'll give you an osage stave.
Good luck with that cedar. I hope it makes a great bow.
George
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The shipping on the staves were approx equal to price I paid for the staves :)
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One quick thought/question... if this truly is your first bow, don't you think 80-100# is a bit ambitious?
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well I've finally gotten back to working on my bow and am taking a small break to type this out. I've got another question:
there is a bend (I believe its called a deflex), what is the quickest and easiest way to make this straighter?
here is a pic that show the bend
well time to work on the other limb :)
--Mark R.
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I've got another question: there is a bend (I believe its called a deflex), what is the quickest and easiest way to make this straighter?
here is a pic that show the bend
--Mark R.
One would straighten a limb by first heating it and then clamping it in a position such that it is bent slightly more in the required direction than ultimately required. Depending on the wood and its state of seasoning you can either boil, steam or use heat from a fire or heat gun to heat the bow. Different people have different preferences for the method used and also claim that certain woods respond better to one method that the others. Others also claim that ":green", unseasoned wood responds to a different method than does seasoned wood. As I said before I know nothing of ERC so cannot recommend one method over another.
It must also be noted that not all woods respond well to heat bending. I would suggest you need to think long and hard over whether you really need to straighten the stave.
Craig.
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If the ERC is green I would highly recommend steam as the method of heat correction over dry heat (heat gun) it has a tendency to check and crack with dry heat if it is at all green...might be the pitch/sap that is still active in the wood but that is only supposition on my part. I tried early on to heat (heat gun) an ERC stave that was not dry or fully cured and it checked/split immediately at the area of applied heat.
Do you have better pics of the whole stave and the areas that you feel need heat treatment? Do you have any idea how cure or fresh this stave may be?
Good luck on your build...
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There was a gentleman from Tennessee on this site about 4 years ago that made several ERC Warbows in the 90- 110# range.
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Marc St Louis has also made some warbows from ERC.
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well it's been wet and smokey here in "sunny" Florida, please keep those affected by the fires here in FL and GA in your thoughts
i'm nearly finished ruffing my stave out, and will put some pics up in the next couple days.
One quick thought/question... if this truly is your first bow, don't you think 80-100# is a bit ambitious?
it may be, but I like a challenge (I've worked w/ wood before, but yes this is my first bow), and like my father and his father I am a perfectionist (that is I pay very close attention to the details).
Do you have better pics of the whole stave and the areas that you feel need heat treatment? Do you have any idea how cure or fresh this stave may be?
I'll have another pic of it soon; and I'm not sure exactly when it was cut, the description on e-bay says it was cut recently, and that was about a month ago when it was posted. It spent about a week in usps's care (when I opened the packaging I got a face full of steam :o ). Since I've had it it has been sitting in my room where I have a fan blowing anytime I'm in there.
It must also be noted that not all woods respond well to heat bending. I would suggest you need to think long and hard over whether you really need to straighten the stave.
duely noted, I haven't decided whether I will or not but I think if I do it will help w/ power :)... but if it will compromise the wood then I don't want to do it. :(
--Mark R.
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Do you have better pics of the whole stave and the areas that you feel need heat treatment?
here are the pics you asked for ;D
the second two are of where it starts to bend (the lower limb in the first pic), the growth rings take a dive there and get closer together
--Mark R.
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Ok I've finally gotten back to working on my bow and I've decided on whether or not I would straighten out the lower limb - for better or worse I'm not going to.
That being said, I need help/comments about tillering. I've made my first flemish string (w/ mixed results/opinions) for tillering (I normally make endless(for bows) for the simple fact that they stretch less, but I'm w/o a jig till I make one)
--Mark R.
the pic will be up in a few i'm having difficulties w/ it
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Did I do the circle/oval thing right?
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Did I do the circle/oval thing right?
Yes its ok, because of the step in the left hand "as I look at it" belly, it looks odd, it It will look better as you get further in the tillering, but it already shows the difference in the limbs.
Best of luck with the project.
Craig
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I got a warbow ERC it took a bad set not a fast wood in the warbow design.
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well I got the wood bending further today, and was exercising the bow and held it at the max height I was drawing it to (30in on the the long string) for a couple seconds and then kaboom :o it exploded into 2 pieces :(
oh well guess I need to get another piece of wood to work on :)
thanks for all of the help everyone :)
--Mark R.
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Mark,
Sorry to hear that it blew up.
Get another piece of wood and have another go.
Craig.
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that thickness taper looks all whacky.
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Get another piece of wood and have another go.
I'm working on that, since I live in the city I kinda have to rely on ebay/ lumber stores, and the lumber stores I've checked out have mainly pine, oak, and cedar, so I've been mainly on ebay keeping my eyes on some staves there
that thickness taper looks all whacky.
the lower limb looked pretty weird but I had it bending pretty evenly along the whole length before the bow broke (it was the upper limb that broke)
--Mark R.
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Any and all comments, advice, ect. is greatly appreciated.
Mark R.
What is ERC ?
Erik
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Eastern Red Cedar