Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: ken75 on May 06, 2011, 05:34:36 pm
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i would like to do a challenge ...not between bowyers but a challenge for our wood. during a recent conversation about a 49 inch hickory paddle bow i was building a friendly short MI bowyer asked what type of handle i had and what draw length i was trying to reach i replied "10 inch rigid handle and 28 inches of course". he let me know right quick the last remaining brain cell i had must have fell out !
well what i would like to do is create a thread where we can show off our short bows and learn more about what each wood species can handle and what designs will lend itself better to a functioning full draw short bow. now i know the disadvantages of short bows ,however there is no better way to test a wood type or design than whacking off the ends. it seems in my mind the more we know the limits of our material the better we can design not only for efficiency but for application .
now im not one for rules but the only way to do this and learn is to build them without sinew , horn or any backing material that would lend itself to holding the bow in one piece. also a minimum of 27 inch draw length .
anybody thats built one or wants to build one show it on here so we can keep this information in one spot
ill try and get one up today if i can
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ill start off with one i built about a month ago and never finished or showed. hickory board bow 53 inches on the string grooves 6 inch handle and fades and 6 inch stiff tips narrowed. 1 3/4 at the fades narrowing to 7/8ths 6 inches before the tips 45lbs at 28inches. 1 1/4 inches or set
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i like building shortbows, too. but if that is a 28" draw in your photo, then you must be 8 feet tall!
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Ken how do keep the severe string anlge at bay? It seems like the string would want to come right off a 48" bow pulled 28" or so.
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pearls best way to help string angle is by making tips stiff and or recurving slightly
billy would you like me to pull it with a tape measure as well ?
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I've made three really short bows from hickory. It can probably stand up to any kind of design but performance wise there are a few things to consider. I think a key to making shorter bows is making the limbs wider and not overdrawing it. Short bows can be very high poundage but overdrawing will either break the bow or cause a mass amount of set leading to poor performance. Here are three short bows I've made of hickory.
Simple D bow 30#@22" 44" ntn. If this one were a bit wider it could have taken less set. About 2" of set.
(http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/ryoon4690/DSCF0274.jpg)
(http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/ryoon4690/DSCF0276.jpg)
D/R 60#@23" 48" ntn. This one is extremely powerful even with the odd tiller.
(http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/ryoon4690/IMG_20101218_101421.jpg)
(http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/ryoon4690/IMG_20101218_095041.jpg)
Recurve 50#@32" 48" ntn. This one took a lot of set as opposed to breaking. Poor performance.
(http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/ryoon4690/SDC10415-1.jpg)
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i remember your bows ryan really like them , thats the stuff im talking about . i realize set and performance are going to be issues but the point here is to push the wood to determine what species can withstand what stress . and what design lends itself to better performance. these things dont have to be chronoed , you know when you turn the string loose wether its a dog or not.
thanks for sharing these Ryan
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Cool idea for a thread. I'll be watching this one... ;D
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ryoon your short hickory "composite style bow" is SO sick! i have a shorty molly osage i will post here in a bit after I get home. Ty
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Here's one from the short Michigan dude.....white ash, self bow, slight double curve here's the spec's made as an experiment, from a 3/8 ash quartersawn board (more wood would have allowed for more draw weight) anyways here's the bow, the full draw is 27" the arrow is 28 1/2" to the tip of the field point.
46" ntn
44# @ 27"
1-1/2 wide with straight tapers to 3/4" tips
finish is the pitch and grease
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right on Rich ! thats a hell of a high mark for Ash.
i wanna add here that ive used and shot your mich. ash bows and one of the great things is the high growth ring count from the short growing season. i think it performs better than ash from other parts of the country.
great job man thanks for sharing this one !!
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Dang you Ken...I need to do some tiller repair on my trade bow and now I have an overpowering urge to go make a short bow. ???
George
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well George as we say down here..... skin it back at let the knats eat at it !!!! >:D
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Here is a short osage i did last winter. Is 49 1/2" groove to groove. Its a 1 1/4" wide with a 1/2 tips. It shoots very fast but has a boat load of hand shock. Took about 1 1/2 of set.
Jon
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Good thread Ken !
Osage 52" 55#@26" Doesn't take much Osage to make a hunting weight bow.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll62/johnkeehn/DSCF3378.jpg)
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll62/johnkeehn/52osageprofile.jpg)
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll62/johnkeehn/52osagebraced.jpg)
FYI i'm 6'4'' for those that care ;)
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll62/johnkeehn/52osagefuldraw.jpg)
;D
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billy would you like me to pull it with a tape measure as well ?
just sayin, just sayin
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Ken. We've all seen the bows you make with the drawlenghts and weights in alot of previous posts. I really don't think a tape is needed ;).. NOW you gonna make me try another shorty >:( :D I'll be putting the final coat on my trade bow in the AM. So it looks like I'll be going for a 47" white oak. Do I have to get 27" or can I use my 26" draw length?
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I am very interested in this because I like short bows and I have a 30" draw. Thanks for the info form everybody.
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Good thread! Well I've been trying to make some short bows for some time now. I got a few to work out, thanks to that short Michigan dude, I think you just got a new nick name Rich ;). Anyway, I just wanted to share my problems I still come across with shorties and trying to get to full draw...27" for me. I always end up with less draw weight than what I hoped for, and always have a great deal of set. Now I'm not to overly concerned with set, I understand it takes away performance, but if I can kill critters with it, then I'm happy. So, I got over the set problem...but I still need to figure out how to bend a short stick that far and keep 50-55# range. I will say this, I'm having lots of fun trying to figure it out. ;D Anybody else having the same issues?
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i know these have been seen but they are good examples of what hickory can do, and how flippin tips can reduce stack , making it a good design choice .first one was recent 54 inches tip to tip and the second one was a while back also 54 inches tip to tip with statics.both are 1 3/4 wide near grip and have been trapped , adequate width and trappin being crucial to equal hickories forces
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that is a really nice bow love the looks
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Dave its easier to miss weight on these just slow down final tiller and take extra time .
i guess now we are gonna have to build some more and go sub50 inch on a few
thanks to all who have posted bows Ryan ,Rich, Scott , Straightarrow ,Johnk, lets keep this going
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Excellent thread and great pics of some fantastic bows. When you guys are referring to Hickory are you using staves or boards?
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Seems to be a few in the 50 to 54 inch range so here's one in that size.....
Eastern Ojibwe, self bow of ash, 53" and weighs 55#@ 28", scalloped up one side 1-1/4" wide at the grip (1-1/2" to the scallop points) and tapers on one side to 5/8" tips....straight grained, vertical grain, board. Will post a couple more later that are Ken 75 Hickory.... after I get the pics took.
rich
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Great thread... Ken you must have read about the bumble bee as a kid, or maybe your folks and a teacher or two told you to put your mind to it and you would be able to accomlish your task. Allegedly, and acording to scientist the bumble bee should not be able to fly.. A natural defect in design... Too short wings to support such a big body... But as we all know-- bumble bees fly...
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hmmm, and here all along I just thought they "bumbled" along >:D
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Here are a couple of Ken 75 shorties....red/black is 52" ntn and the black mollegabet is 51" both are hickory self bows both bows will draw 28" but I only manage 27" (26" is my normal) The red/black arrived from ken somewheres around 70# and I could hardly string the beast so it got retillered and scallops cut in and after a lot of work I got the monster down to 61# @ 26" the little black molle is 60# at 27" and may need a slight re-tiller as well.
here's the pics.
rich
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Lee they do that too :D
Rich are those Texas Skins on that bow? I will have to post my Ken75 shorties on here too.
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Lee my hickory is 1/4 sawn from trees here on my place so yes boards for me
Rich thats my first look at the red bow since you scalloped it , guess i should send some more up there for some body work >:D
the black one still has a hell of a nice full draw
CP those are Arizona skins from Nate on the molly
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Thanks for the info Ken, I'm not very up to speed on dimensional lumber so it's something I need to do some reading up on. I had a guy offer me some Hickory slabs that were cut off some larger logs/trees. Not sure what "boards" like that would be called but he offered me a bunch...some walnut and oak as well so I figured maybe I'd check them out. Worst case is maybe they'd make ok backs for a Lam build?
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take them Lee ,dont ever turn wood down . those slabs can be milled into 1/4 sawn boards just turn and cut cross the rings
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Ken, I was thinking that on short bows a gullwing will give ya a longer draw with less strain on the back because of the deflexed tips, mine is 54" ntn 40# # 29" but is white oak backed white oak, lamed it to glue in the profile, so it don't fit the parameters, I'm interested to see if anyones got a self bow that style and design and what their thoughts are, Bub
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bubby...I'm not ken, but I can say this. I don't know how long it's going to take, but I'm making a white oak shorty. unbacked and quartersawn. My dimensions are going to be 1 1/4" x4" grip with 2" fades out to 2" wide tapering to 3/4 at the tip. then 1" tapering to approx3/8 at tips. It will bend through the handle if possable
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i know these have been seen but they are good examples of what hickory can do, and how flippin tips can reduce stack , making it a good design choice .first one was recent 54 inches tip to tip and the second one was a while back also 54 inches tip to tip with statics.both are 1 3/4 wide near grip and have been trapped , adequate width and trappin being crucial to equal hickories forces
What do you mean by "trapped?" I like your thread. What a good idea. I make sinew backed shorties, now I'm gonna have to do a self shorty.
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Matt, trapping is the process of cutting the sides of the limb at an angle so either the back is narrower than the belly or the belly is narrower than the back. If you cut through the limb and looked at it from the end it is in a trapezoid shape, hence the term trapped. It is helpful when you have wood which is much better at tension than compression, or vice versa. It's also helpful when you laminate with 2 woods of unequal strengths and need to keep one from overpowering the other.
Lee, I agree with Ken. Slabs are normally the pieces cut off a round log at the sawmill to square it off prior to cutting dimensional lumber. Depending on the tree, there can be lots of good wood or not so much. There's usually some slope to the slab (the top end of the tree being smaller diameter than the bottom) as well. Hopefully you can pick through what they have and get some good stuff. When I'm working wood like that I lay the cut side on the bandsaw table and snap a chalkline where the wood that's deep enough starts. After you cut on that line you can use a rip fence and rip rift sawn boards until the center cut which will be quartersawn. Also, hardwood slabs make good hide fleshing boards since they have a nice curve to them. You probably already know all this.
My only bow contribution to this thread is this 52" osage molly. It draws 55#@26" but I think it has more draw length left. It has some set, some of which was present in the stave. I heat bent it out and it came right back so I left it. It is about 3/16" thick and an inch and an eighth wide over the working part of the bow.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5054/5538356609_831ea253df_z.jpg)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5016/5538935394_11ffa5f894_z.jpg)
I've toyed with bending some recurve into the levers to see if I could get a little more draw length out of her. Given that we're experimenting I think I'll do that. The other thing I could do is continue taking off thickness until I get to full draw or the bow fails. It does have one good knot in the working limb. I expect it to give up at that spot.
George
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Cool Thread.
Pushing the limits of design depends a lot on the quality of the individual stave at the time. Actually, I think it has more to do with it than we bow builders give credit. If you build enough bows you will quickly find some favorites to abuse but there is always those exceptions that defy gravity.
This little piece of Hickory pulls half its length @ 28 and has only lost a little reflex over time. Btw, its only 1 3/8 wide through the handle. One of the fastest bows on my rack.
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh213/colevy/SideFinishedProfile.jpg)
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh213/colevy/fulldraw-2.jpg)
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What a cool thread Ken. nice bows everyone! I want to get in on this too as I've been wanting to try a short bow for a while. My shortest to date is 60" which I don't think counts as "short" does it? I hope I can get the time to work on one soon. I have 3 other bows in progress right now that I need to finish.... I'll be watching this thread..
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i dont know if i have any to contribute, but ill post the one shorty i made. it was red oak, with a 3.5 inch handle, with 1 inch fades. sure dont remember the dimensions of the width, but it was 55 inches long before i glued on some 3 inch siyahs at a 45 degree angle. i got 27 inches of draw out of it, which i was surprised with. think it was 42lbs or so. it shot really well, i need to build another. pretty much depends on the proper tiller i believe and getting it to bend evenly.
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This an osage with rawhide and water snake skin backing. 45 long ntn 45# 25 , linen string, sellak finish.
(http://static.fotoalbum.hu/picturezoom/2010/08-14/fusizoli/IMG_4843_110724.jpg)
(http://static.fotoalbum.hu/picturezoom/2010/08-14/fusizoli/IMG_4838_110629.jpg)
(http://static.fotoalbum.hu/picturezoom/2010/08-14/fusizoli/IMG_4839_110649.jpg)
(http://static.fotoalbum.hu/picturezoom/2010/08-15/fusizoli/IMG_4849_102040.jpg)
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& just a pic from two other :)
(http://static.fotoalbum.hu/picturezoom/2010/07-25/fusizoli/IMG_4757_172030.jpg)
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Man oh man guys, some seriously nice work showing up here today. I think the only down side to this site is that the list of bows I want/need to build keeps getting longer & longer!
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I agree with Lee!
I see bowmodels i didnt know existed a few month ago.Really like the lower on the last pic,resembles a russels viper a bit...
Im happy i started my archery with one of those "trainingwheel"bows and progressed to real bows and not the other way around...
Because i would have missed all this then :D
/Mikael
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bubby your right about the gull winged bows ,ive built two that were 48 inches and full drawed but they were backed bows so i wont show them here !
George thanks for showing your bow that puts another osage shorty on here
gmc as always very nice bow and a great example of what hickory can achieve with good density and an excellent bowyer
fusizoli very beautiful bows
lets keep these unbacked selfbows for the sake of learning about the wood
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Fusizoli.. WOW!!! :o
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Found this one in the archives,
It's from awhile back
unbacked yew heartwood. 50 inch tip to tip. 48lbs at 26 inch. stiff handle. I have since flipped the tips and retilled it out to 26 again.
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One more from the archives,
piggy back stave to the previous bow. pacific yew wood
50 inch tip to tip , 47 pounds at 26 inch and does bend slightly through the handle. pretty even sapwood to heartwood ratio
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WOW !!! I'm really amazed by the bows ya'll have shown on here. I've got some lightning struck hickory from a friend that I was gonna make kids bows from but now I have even better ideas for it....cool...Thanks everyone....
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Wow, 50" long and 26" draw with a stiff handle. :o :o. That's impressive! Good work.
George
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well we have our first yew bows in this thing . i guess im surprised it would hold up but then ive never used it just read about it . thanks for showing them raven
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Suprised it would hold up? I'm curious why so?
I haven't made anything other than yew bows so far, and I have found the wood to be extremly flexible and durable
neither of the previous bows were overly wide. maybe inch and a quarter, i'd have to measure.
I am curious to see what a wide / short unbacked yew bow could handle.
thanks for the compliments
cheers,
raven
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I like shortbows so post another which finished today ;D This is the shortest ash bow I ve made yet.
42 ntn 50-55# at 21 draw
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Lakota%20ash/IMG_5534.jpg?t=1305056131)
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Lakota%20ash/IMG_5535.jpg?t=1305056164)
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Lakota%20ash/IMG_5536.jpg?t=1305056194)
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Lakota%20ash/IMG_5541.jpg?t=1305056218)
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I guess this is kinda long and not drawn as far as some others posted here on this thread. 51.5"ntn Osage selfbow. 55lbs@24" I know this bow can go further but it only took a half inch set and I wanna keep it that way.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/00small12367419-1.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/00small38392419-1-1.jpg)
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very nice bows guys
welcome blackhawk , very nice intro
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Thanks ken...you build some awesome bows man. I peruse this site n lurked but when I saw this awesome thread I just couldn't resist joining in and jumping on this bandwagon. I love shorty's. :)
Maybe ill post a thread on this one even tho some of the guys have seen it on another site.
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Didn't want to get left in the dust so made a couple of "midget specials"....first bow is a self bow of red elm, 38" ntn, 42# @ 25+ and the second is a 39" ntn, self bow of white ash ( has a grip block tied on in the Innuit style) and it's 44# @ 25+. These have NOT been drawn to 26" but they have been drawn to 25-1/2" so they might go that far.
The elm bow is a straight bow and has 1/2" of set....the ash bow is a double curve with 1/2" of reflexed tips and 1" of steamed deflex....it took an additional 3/4" to 1" of set. Both bows have 100 or so arrows through them and seem to be real nice shooters with 400 to 450 grain arrows.
rich
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Rich, HOT DAMN! (sorry guys I just had too...)
You keep posting pics of these sweet Shorties and you may find me parked in your driveway in the morning ;D
(Got the stringer today (THANK YOU) and already used it on three bows, much appreciated!)
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Wow, those are incredible!
George
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One more from the archives,
piggy back stave to the previous bow. pacific yew wood
50 inch tip to tip , 47 pounds at 26 inch and does bend slightly through the handle. pretty even sapwood to heartwood ratio
I really like this style of bow...that Yew is something special. I'm going to have to try and get my hands on some one day.
Thanks for sharing.
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dang Rich ive said for a while your the king of shorties ..but then midgets gotta be good for something !!!! >:D
seriously though great bows with beautiful full draws its amazing what elm can do , also ash stood up well to the strain of being short
i truly hope to be able to contribute some this weekend or by monday ,tough not havin time to build bows
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dang Rich ive said for a while your the king of shorties ..but then midgets gotta be good for something !!!! >:D
That is insane. Those 2 could go to a turkey blinb with me anytime!!!!!!!!! Very nice job
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That drawlenght is impressive :o
Great work on both!
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Fusizoli,
Hey man, that little ash gull-wing you posted is a whole lot better done than mine.....that's an incredible bow, sir!!!
rich
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Oh Rich I'm really glad U like it! 8)
Your bows are inspirational! Those bends and low set amaze me time to time, just like the finish work!
May this 21 is bit short, it could be 23 with less # but like to make it as strong as this ash could handle with some character. The next will be deflexed handle with reflexed tips. Ash like that.
Thanks Master! :)
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I got nothin, but every time I'm away for a few days, you guys go and pull out all the stops! What an impressive lot this is! I'm inspired constantly by the level of skill and craftsmanship I see here! Now I gots to go find my favorite shave... ;D
Frode
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I have truly enjoyed this thread. Ken makes beautiful bows prolifically and is kind enough to post them. fusizoli has a true gift but at the top as always 'ol Rich just takes a look at the rest then builds the best.
That little elm just makes me weep...'scuse me fellers..need a tissue.
Lane
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lane i have to agree he takes an idea and doesnt except the limits the rest of us work by. i think i have come this far because of the conversations and help ive gotten from Rich
once again great bows posted great results from many different woods and i hope to post some soon ...keep em coming guys lets push these things !
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I got one in the works. I picked up a waste cut of Osage 30.5" long n chased the ring on it the other night. Im gonna try to push it out to at least a 20" draw n maybe another inch or two if I can squeeze that out of it. We'll see what happens???? >:D
Sorry I know it doesn't adhere to your draw rule but its still pushing the limits. Fun thread
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Blackhawk,
Judgin by the bow you posted up I cant wait to see this latest one..........anybody that gets 20" out of 30" bows belongs in this category no matter what anyone says. A lot of the Algonquian and Cree arrows only had 19" of drawable shaft FYI so 20" from a 30" is a limit pusher in every sense of the word.....cant wiat to see the little bugger !!!!
rich
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What are the requirements for a "shortbow" as it pertains to this thread? Seems like there's some amazing building going on here either way :)!
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I think I got the secret recipe figured out Rich...let's see what happens. ::)
I think a good definition wood be a bow that draws at least half its length(and then some) and above 40lbs. But this is Kens thread and ill let him determine or redefine the parameters.
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Sneak peak ....im brewing up a lil Osage microstorm here in good ol western Pa >:D
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2011-05-12_20-17-17_677.jpg)
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2011-05-12_20-06-29_508.jpg)
Roughed her belly down and got her down to beggining of knee tiller stage. Ill get her bending some more before I make my "moves" on her.
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Teasing aint nice...by the way, what's your "knee-launch" record, mines just shy of ten yards but to be fair it did bounce off my head first, luckily the bow didn't get hurt hardly at all ;D
rich
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Kegan i started this with the idea of full draw being 27 to 28 inches mainly because i knew that way the wood wasnt being babied . however when we start building 39 inch bows i think full draw can be considerately less and still follow the same idea. so if the draw is half the length then i think its cool.... hell ya'll just build short ones and yank em back and lets see what happens. ;D
Blackhawk you get 20 inches outta that yella wood and you can post it here , lookin forward to seeing and hearing what it can do
we got ash, elm, hickory , yew , osage , i think thats all right now , im lookin to see some more wood types, like white oak ,red oak, maybe some hackberry, or locust
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You guys amaze me with those midget bows. I can't tiller them for crap, but I love those shorties.
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come on big John stretch one back for us >:D
have to add oak to the list i went back and ScottD has a beautiful shorty that is shingle oak , i assume white oak ?
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DANG ! that makes twice ive been wrong......this time about the oak and my first marriage >:D
ok shingle oak = tough as hell red oak
i have some black ash from up yonder ^ im gonna try it this weekend and i have about four bows ready for final tiller ,52 inch and 54 inch crepe myrtle staves , a mid fifties hickory paddle bow and a mild reflex hickory bow that will be tillered as a holmie. im thinkin about gettin a white oak gullwing going also
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Dang ken you must got an assembly line of workers at your place....Ken75=mass producer of bows :D
looking forward to seeing them
What about HHB too...its pretty elastic stuff. I have a 54" one but its sinewed.
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I have a 56" sinew backed hickory bow curing right now, goal is ~65# at 29". Would a sinew backed bow count?
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i would love to see your bows , i really wanted to keep these unbacked so we know what the wood can handle
blackhawk i just got off work for my five day weekend , hope to get something built
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come on big John stretch one back for us >:D
have to add oak to the list i went back and ScottD has a beautiful shorty that is shingle oak , i assume white oak ?
Well I gave it a shot today, although at 57" it wasn't nearly as short as ya'lls midget bows. Anyway I got greedy, heard a "tic" , and then a "boom".
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i would love to see your bows , i really wanted to keep these unbacked so we know what the wood can handle
Noted! I wimped out at 24" on this one, but there are still some staves in the hotbox... >:D
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sorry to hear that jon , although ive heard my share of it too , keep tryin
Kegan i lookin forward to your contributions i know you can build some nice bows
well i got a few things done today , crepe myrtle stave 54 inches done waiting on finish. 54 inch hickory with flipped tips is done shooting in ready for finish. hickory with cherry underlays and tip overlays ready for final scraping . and my hickory paddle bow is floor tillered waiting for the tip overlays to dry. and final scraping. hopefully i can get some pics on here by monday
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This one's a little different......it's 55" ntn, but draws 31" so figured it would qualify.....Self bow of Elm, 45# @ 28" the bow design is a Mollegabet, with recurved levers and a deflexed grip. Ken 75 made me do this one cause he sent the "midget" some 31" arrows (thats in the pictures) could have cut the arrows down....but decided to build the bow around them instead....anyways here is the pics......all hate mail can be PM'd to Ken 75 ;D ;D ;D
rich
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That is a really cool bow!
Building a bow around too long arrows...Different indeed :D
/Mikael
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Dang Rich....that is one bad #$! Bow. Looks like you can easily go another inch too. Great job. Im not as fast at building as some of you boys,but im still slowly working on mine. It might not be done till the end of this week. Ill post my results either way. I've made a few shorties but nothing like this before. My two year old is 4" taller than this thing :D
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You are correct Blackhawk....but to get 32 or 33 I'd have to laydown and put my feet on the bow ::)
rich
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You are correct Blackhawk....but to get 32 or 33 I'd have to laydown and put my feet on the bow ::)
rich
;D ;D :o ;D ;D
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Here is a walnut self bow ....black walnut, 50" will draw 29" and weighs just over 40# at that length, bow was made for a Lady who wanted those specs. The arrow in the pic is 29" to the center of the head (fieldpoint). The bow is an American Longbow pattern.
rich
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You are correct Blackhawk....but to get 32 or 33 I'd have to laydown and put my feet on the bow ::)
rich
That's that vertically challenged thing Ken was talking about ;D ;D
But seriosly Rich, those are 2 nice bows ;)
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well i dont know how in the hell im supposed to follow Rich but heres two done today first is a hickory bow 54 inches made from a scrap of wood with the tips flipped 1 1/8th wide 44 lbs at 28 inches
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heres a crepe myrtle stave bow . back was only lightly scraped to thin the bark down . 54 inches tip to tip 1 1/2 wide at the fades straight taper . 48 lbs at 28 inches. not the shortest by any means but impressive for a stave bow , and this wood keeps amazing the hell outta me . finished with cherry acrylic stain and clear
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Helluva nice job there Ken....im really impressed with the crepe myrtles profile. Was it heat treated into a lil reflex to start with? Or a natural reflexed stave. Anyways it maintains a nice shape...must be pretty good wood. I better hurry up on mine cus you guys are leaving me in the dust.
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blackhawk no heat treating at all just a lil natural reflex from drying. this stuff is tough as hell and works about like hickory hard but will sand and scrape
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I agree with Blackhawk, that crepe myrtle stave is a knockout! Wonder if that stuff grows up in my neck of the woods?
Also, just curious if you or Rich ever sleep? With the sheer number of bows you guys have posted I have to wonder ;D
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I finally had time to finish this one. I thopught I would have a little fun with the colors ;D 46" n2n 40# @ 26" (my draw length) White Oak 1 1/4 in the grip 2" fades to 2" straight taper to 3/4" at the ends with pin nocks. Don't laugh to much :D
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh49/hillbilly061/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1937.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh49/hillbilly061/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1938.jpg)
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh49/hillbilly061/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1935.jpg)
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Nice one hillbilly...all I gotta say is "skittles...taste the rainbow". :D
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Crap, Crap, Crap.....you guys is making the old "vertically challenged" dude green here !!!!
Ken I would have expected that nice double curve from the hick, but sweet Jesus, that stave bow is something else, really like the shelf knocks and how ya truely unstring it.....it's also flat as pancake......tiller is perfect......just too cool
Mark, you fibbin dude, said ya couldn't make them shorties....well now the cat's outta the bag, the tiller on that looks perfect to me really nice sir....what the hecks' wrong with the colors ? of course it might look different to me, what with bein so short and all.
rich
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very nice draw on that white oak bow Mark seems like white oak has elevated some from the it takes lots of set comments.
you will never have to explain which bow your talking about to someone , that one should stand out on any bow rack.
i think i recognize that string material . especially since you own horses
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Lee i missed your comments , crepe myrtle grows everywhere just look in peoples yard it is widely planted as an ornamental .
cant say for Rich but i do sleep and i havent posted a bow in about two weeks but i do have two more done now to post tomorrow after the finish cures. >:D and i think ill prob start couple more tomorrow ;D
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Ken, thanks for the reply...I did a quick Google image search on the Myrtle and saw basically what you described, LOTS of lawns and yards ;D Gonna have to make friends with a couple local landscapers or something I think.
I need to get back to work on my Trade Bow soon but I stopped this week so I could make my boys each a bow. Made neat little Hickory backed Teak for my youngest boy, turned out ok but had some fretting on the back but I think it will hold for him at such a light draw weight. I glued up a "mini" 60" Long Bow style Hickory / Osage for my 11 yr old that I hope to get finished this week for him as well. Anyway, I'm rambling and haven't made a shortie so I'll got back to the observation deck for the rest of this thread. Thanks again.
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Ken I think my new name for you is Bumble bee!! In my culture ;) down Texas ways, we give folks Nick names...
As soon as I get to a pc I will post pics of Diego shooting that Copperhead bow with curved tips.. He hit a Coke can dead center twice at about 20 yards, and didn't have a finger tab.. He likes the bow so much that he asked if he could have it. I knew it was coming. He knows a good bow when he sees one. Thank you for your gracious generosity and supplying me with excellent examples of primitive working bows beautifully crafted. You have also given me tools by which to use in the classroom to demonstrate to my students what Native Americans utilized to provide food for their families. It is so much mire effective than looking at a picture of a bow in a text book. ;)
That Myrtle bow by the standards of lenght and draw lenght should by all logical reasons be 66...
Well, it apears that you my most excellent Bumble would not fall victim to Stanley Milgram's obedience to authority experiments... ;D
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CP , i guess i just am hard headed and want to see if it works . some woods would have blown to pieces at that length and draw, but i felt with the crepe myrtle like with my hickory it stood a good chance of working . my next project with it will be to see if it will recurve .
glad you and your family are enjoying the bows . hope they help with the classroom as well
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A lot of really cool looking bows here guys! I have to admit I've been on vacation the last month or so from this site. I'm motivated to finish up a couple now on my day off.
Rich, that's a good-looking walnut bow, have you been hiding her... :)
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Forgot to add. That little White Oak, only took 1" of set.
Ken I've got a Molly and a HBH glued up and ready to tiller. After that, the crepe myrtle.
Rich. I might try another after the next few.... And I don't think the colors have anything to with the vertically challenged thing this time ;D ;D
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Nice bows there!
That back finish rocks! >:D Turkeys will know ya from 50 miles LOL Tiller pro.
Ken that myrtle is lovely!
Rich told all I want to say.
Some of my next projects :) The next 41.5 ash is nearly ready.
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/IMG_5548_resize.jpg?t=1305565956)
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/IMG_5545_resize.jpg?t=1305566003)
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Zoltan, on those smaller diameter saplings and such...do you hand split (I assume so) or cut them with a saw? I've not had much luck splitting the small diameter stuff...just seems to tear out short before getting a full/complete split. Great looking pile of staves btw!
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Just the uggly yew sawed half, all the other splited. I haven't got big machines just a little bandsaw for max 7cm.
The little dia saplings useally rough out with axe and not risk a split. If all side usefull and the wood is rare like good yew here than try to cut it half.
This shortbow thing gave me another dimension whan going out to harvest some bow wood. Anyway most of this wood is a fall down piece from a longer log. Now I'm very happy to keep tham away from fire ;)
Shorter pieces use for tools and for hornbow parts.
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Thanks, I was wondering about the Yew (need to find a friend out west here in the US for me to try my hand at some as well...) After seeing all these short bows and sapling bows from others I have been selectively keeping my eyes open in my travels and have a few recent ones cut and drying. 2 Russion Olive saplings and a White Birch sapling are some of my latest to hit the stave pile. Thanks for sharing!
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zoltan you make some truly nice bows. They would be special if at regular length. ;)
Lane
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heres two more first is white oak pyramid 56 inches 40 lbs at 28 , 2 inches at fades , second is hickory paddle bow 54 inches 42 lbs at 28.
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more
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now im gonna build some short ones.
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Geeeeez Ken....your a madman......and I like it ;D
Your maintaining very nice profiles with your bows. Nice tillering skills.
Now what ya gonna do with all these bows?
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Hey Ken, of course the bows are way nice, but what kina snake ya got on the second one? Got a real nice pattern to it, for sure. I'm building one now for that Cane-break ya sent up.
rich
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Blackhawk , thanks , the paddle bow is traded and going to missouri. i give most away these make 93 ive built and i only have around 40 left
one thing i want to add for those of you that build paddle bows my hat goes off to you ,it was the hardest one i have tillered yet , never could figure out where to take off wood and thats usually second nature with my bows
thanks Rich , the snake is Texas rat snake i think , came from criveraville
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Ken,
Another pair of fine looking bows. That oak looks to hold up nicely.. You keep making those skins look purty 8)
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thanks Cp , ive had some purty one to work with ! ;D
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that is a fine looking bow you guys are so talented.
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Thomas I know why you like that paddle bow soooo ;)
Here are a few pics of a Ken75 bow my son has taken possesion off.. ;D
He sure knows a greal bow when he sees one. and shots it too
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That is a sweet paddle bow! what are the dimensions on that bugger? Criveraville, you're boy has most excellent tastes and will be ruined for sure by the time he's our age ;D
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enjoy while you can the time with him is priceless great looking young man and really cool bow.
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Lee the paddle bow is 54 inches , 1 1/2 at the widest
thanks gentlemen for the compliments
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Sorry,but im a bit confused here.I see a Flatbow in Kens pics,not a Paddle bow.A paddle bow,is widest at mid limb.
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Traxx my first one failed so i stretched that one a tad , may not be a true paddle bow but it was my attempt . also my last try
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Paddle bows are nightmare to tiller ::)
Here is the next attempt on the same ash with the same 41.5 ntn lenght. It is in the 40-45# range on 22.5 draw.
It takes more set than the other but this is narower 2.9cm. Will let the ash ones wider....Bottom limb have some natural deflex.
Painted with the same earth pigments and waxed.
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5552.jpg?t=1305733778)
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5553.jpg?t=1305733778)
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5561.jpg?t=1305733778)
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5563.jpg?t=1305734294)
That 25.5 is far away yet :) May with osage...
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Dang, sure do love your work Sir! Keep em coming!
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Nice one Fusi.... :)
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At the Tenn. Classic this year Gary Davis gave me a 53" osage kids bow stave. He had it markes for a 35# bow but it felt way stronger than that to me. After giving it a good once over I decided to sinew back it and see if I can get a hunting weight bow out of it. It is stiff enough on it's own so as soon as I can get around to working on it I will put 2 or 3 layers of sinew on it. Looking for 50# to 55#@26". I'll post pics of the progress as I go.
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beautiful bow fuszioli
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Thank you guys ;D
This is a projet to me. Like to see what could I do on this lenght & like to make that 25-25.5 draw as Rich did ::) >:D
Now at first make some ash bows. Have two more attempt for that 25. Hope I could do it :) Than will try some other woods too.
I'm shure that deflex handle will do the work and moderate the set on ash.
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Really nice bow fusizoli, like all about it, tiller and finish!
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Well...here's what happened with my lil Osage. :D
Here's the unbraced profile. 29.5"ntn.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2011-05-15_11-21-49_449.jpg)
Here it is low braced
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2011-05-18_19-25-58_385.jpg)
And here's the money shot :D
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2011-05-18_19-18-31_468.jpg)
:o
She let loose at that knot and it split and ran vertically through the whole bow. I was pulling it 9"@50lbs on the long string and had the tiller looking good. So I went to brace it and I got her down to 40lbs@15" and snap she went. Weird it went at that weight when I had been pulling her to 50 on the long string.
So it was a good learning lesson. I know it didn't make the cut here but I thought id post it for discussion and why it failed. Too short? Too much recurved tips? The knot? It was a waste cut. Id think a good piece of Osage wood handle it or if this was sinew backed.
It still pulls back to 12" and I shot some arrows for fun. Im not even bummed or mad. I think its amusing :D
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Hey Blackhawk, Quite a few NA short bows were sinew wrapped around the bow limbs to prevent that very thing, but I've seen pictures of a few that got that centerline crack and apparently shot fine anyways......fyi
Fuszioli, dang dude ya got almost 23" draw out of a self bow that should only draw 20" tops.....(if it was backed) I think that little bow rocks.......
rich
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She's def a goner Rich. That crack went to deep and in one spot went all the way thru to the back for two inches at that knot. I wonder what this design wood do at 40" ? I bet someone could get 25" with it. Maybe? ::)
Obviously I recurved the tips almost 90 and deflexed the handle area. And the limbs had slight natural reflex in them.
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Blackhawk bummer it failed , but then that was short. i like the design , im like you ,curious what it would look like and perform like at 40 .
sweet attempt though thanks for showing it
fusizoli , i wouldnt worry bout 25 inches looks like thats close to full draw for you and i think you have proven ash as an excellent wood
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Fuszioli, dang dude ya got almost 23" draw out of a self bow that should only draw 20" tops.....(if it was backed) I think that little bow rocks.......
rich
Yes Rich and if I haven't seen your bows I newer like to try this 25. But now I have to ;)
I ve broken just 2-3 bows from 40 yet, so have to strech the limits and learn things. Self shortbows are good learning pieces shure.
Thank you guys the nice compliments!
The bow painted with green earth, yellow and red ochre and carbon black as the other too.
That little osage is 100% ok! Just put few sinew wrapping on it (not too much) and some glue or superglue in the crack than shoot it :)
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Just a pic to update this topic :)
Full draw from the latest two, tomorow.
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5576.jpg?t=1306935484)
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Those are awesome Zoltan, love the paterns in paint
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Zoltan, how on earth do you folks crank out these gorgeous bows at such amazing speed? I understand I am a beginner and that there are certainly steps and pieces of my process that will evolve and change but it really seems that some folks on here start/complete a bow a day...
Looking forward to the full draw pics.
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Flat, bendy handle bows can easily be made in a day Lee, providing they dont need any heating up. Some day you will have to shoot over to my place and we can whip a bendy handle hackberry bow out in a day for you, we can even flip the tips a pinch.
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Lee!
I could start this bows from dry wood. If U know the process and made few bows, the size going into your hand so not need to mesure. Most of the sticks start to bend as U want ;)
It is just looking a day but from this "character" staves needs more time as useall.
Newer mesured the exact time, but it needs more then a week if every day make some work on tham.
I'm working on 3-4 bows at the same time and the other 4 is waiting for tiller.
Sometimes really dont know how to reduce this flow ::)
I'm a professional paint restorer and start to making bows as a passion near 3 years ago.
Now my studio is full of bows and paintings equally and my clients start to going mad. :-\
I think I'm a maniac bowyer ;D
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Agree with Pearl!
This bows was heat corrected and heat treated so it takes time.
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Flat, bendy handle bows can easily be made in a day Lee, providing they dont need any heating up. Some day you will have to shoot over to my place and we can whip a bendy handle hackberry bow out in a day for you, we can even flip the tips a pinch.
That would be great PD (what ya got going this Friday? >:D)
I guess since I am starting from mostly uncured Osage and having to steam, bend, heat, etc I was feeling that they were a bit longer of a process. I can see where knowing what you are doing + starting with dry staves would make a huge difference.
I know this is an unbacked "Shortbow builders" thread but I just got coat #3 of Tru-oil on my "resurrected" Hick/ERC. She is 37" ttt and 35 1/2" ntn...pulls 35# @ 18" ;D
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Zoltan, I understand better now...combine an Artist with his passion and something just has to be produced! I'd say keep your Art customers waiting from time to time since we all need our "fix" and do so enjoy seeing your work. Your background in pigments, binders and such must really come in handy on some of your bow projects. Very cool vocation.
Thanks for the kind reply~
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Man this has been some kinda good ;D. Zoltan, sir , you create art with every bow you make. A real treat to see your work.
Lee I am in complete agreement. A simple bow can easily take me a week if it all goes right. Two if it goes normal.
Pearl you ain't but a couple three hours from here... :)
Lane
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Gonna make a short bow from hickory, gonna try to reflex the tips :) never tried that before
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Thanks the nice compliment Lane.
Young man U will like it shure ;) This is a good way to learn more.
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(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5579.jpg?t=1307009359)
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5577.jpg?t=1307009318[img][img]http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5578.jpg?t=1307009277)
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(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5578.jpg?t=1307009277)
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Nice, those look great! I really like the look of those bow backs. I was so sure I would break mine that I didn't even think about a finish. May have to now.
George
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Zoltan,
I absolutely love the draw profile of that third bow you posted. How about giving a brother some dimensions? You have been making some bows that really speak to me. Thank You Sir!!
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Thanks bro. :) I'll try but my brain working in cm scale and not in inch ::) Let see what my digital scale say!
All three have some character in the stave so some part looking stiff or bend too much, but hope it just looking. Now have to shot some arrows with tham.
This short paddle is 41 3/4 ntn 1.26x0.51 at the center handle is 5.5 long widest part is 1.612 top 1.605 bottom and 0.44-0.45 thick, midd limb is 1.4 wide 0.4 thick, before tips 0.7x 0.32
pulled 22 max 23 and about 40-45# from ash with some heat treat. Useally not mesure the time so I think it was about 15-20 min.
All this bows made from floweing ash. It has tight rings but very good bow material. Osage or hickory allove some more draw shure.
(http://static.fotoalbum.hu/picturepreview/2009/07-12/fusizoli/IMG_3025_230102.jpg)
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:o :o :o to all three. Perfect examples of PERFECT D bow tiller. Awesome job Fusi...keep em coming. Wow
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Thanks Hawk!
Painted the last one too
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5580.jpg?t=1307026406)
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5581.jpg?t=1307026427)
before tiller
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5570.jpg)
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awesome bows Zoltan , third full draw is outstanding . i think you might be the King of short bows at this point . great work
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No way Ken, but thanks!
I'm happy with this 23 on this last rd stick. May some little more work on it and could take it to 24 but the sound inside me sad thats enough now. :) The wood have a natural rd shape but needs a lot of correction so there was a tough tiller with the corrected reflexed and deflexed parts to ballance tham.
The longer one draw to 24.5 on the pic with low brace.
Cheers Z
Now have to work on my warbows for a while :)
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Holy crap Zoltan, I'm with Ken....you make absolutely outstanding short bows sir !!!!!! those are very, very nice.
rich
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Holy crap Zoltan, I'm with Ken....you make absolutely outstanding short bows sir !!!!!! those are very, very nice.
rich
Yup, exactly what he said... ;D
BUT, there is hardly a bad bow or Bowyer in this bunch imho.
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I notice people arent fully gripping the bow with their full hand, is this because its a bendy handle? Im new sorry :)
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Short bows with relative low braceheight needs another style. I use my index figer bone and not that soft area which normaly use in olympic style (sry i dont know the right name). At the same time bend my elbow a bit.
Another but totally different like Ishi shoot his bows, thats usefull method too. It needs more practice!
Thanks a lot guys , really appreciate your words! U know here in the old continent this bows haven't got a cultural background, especially here in my home land. We have a horsebow culture and most of the people looking at this bows like toys. ::)
But I love this bows and like to see I 'm not alone :)
Best regards Zoltan
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Thanks :)
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Wow this is sweet and all o te bows are sweet. I will get in on this challenge soon I have some water oak that is not done curing :)
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Just a little update, come on guys :) Ash Crow 45long
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc450/fusizoli/Shortbows/IMG_5621.jpg?t=1309210340)
made after this one
(http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=25208.0;attach=44423;image)
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Awe man, Zoltan...I do not think I've seen a bow of yours I do not truly and thoroughly enjoy! Wonderful work!
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Amazing jobs by everyone-like my Grandpa use to say "A man who can make and shoot a short bow can't be all bad":)
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ttt
Great topic, just wanted to get it back up for others to check out.
Barry
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Thanks for bumping this to the top Barry. I missed this topic when it was started so it's been a real pleasure reading through it. So many nice short bows!!
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Hi all,
This is a great topic, anyone still interested in short bows here? :)