Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Blacktail on April 20, 2011, 02:40:17 am
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o.k. i have been reading the best book ever..from the den of the oldbowhunter...NOW,i read this in Chet's book and have read and herd it from others..that people have let there stave's sit for 3-5-10 years and it makes the stave's even better...i don't know if this also applys to Osage but why is this or what happens this so specail...just curios on what you think...and does any of the guys back east that use Osage do this...john
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Get out the Pop corn. ;) :) :) I let mine season as long as possible,I know folk argue about it but I have a lot better luck and not near as many suprises from seasoned wood. That being said I have built some good bow from fast dried wood and will use it if I have to,I just don't have to very
often.As far as I am concerned on Osage the older the better if it has been kept in a dry place. :) :)
Pappy
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I personally think this issue has been discussed in great detail in:
THIS THREAD. (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,25039.0.html)
I would advice to stick to that one topic, so all information concerning that topic is collected instead of scattered around in several smaller topics.
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Thanks for you advice. ???
Pappy
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If you leave it as a log it will doubtless need years. If you quarter it and then start working it down and de-bark it after 9 months then I reckon a year over all is fine.
The thicker it is the longer it takes... simple.
I think some people just like to be able to say "It's been seasoned for 5 years" because it sounds cool.
If you've got plenty of wood it's easy to leave it that long...why, I've got chores around the house I've left that long ::) no problem.
Del
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You only need to "season" wood as long as it takes to dry. If you split out yew staves and store in a dry place a year should do it.
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Not to hijack or complicate the issue, but I'm wondering, many native cultures "smoked" the bow to "give back it's spirit". Scientifically I suppose it activates the resins and hardens the bow along the lines of heat treating, maybe more uniformly? Could it be possible that the longer the seasoning the more this "hardening" takes place. Never worked yew, anyone know if the smoking process was common with tribes that used the wood?
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Here in Utah where it is very dry, you need to be careful on long seasoning. I broke many bows, specially in the winter time when the wood got too dry. I now bring the staves inside when they are dry enough and put them in a room with a humidifier at 50% humidity. Took me a while to figure this one out.
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john, I feel that if the yew gets too dry it becomes brittle. the climate here in central oregon is very dry compare to the valley or other areas with higher humidity. I got some staves from a guy that were 30+ years old, he had moved to prineville from albany and didnt make bows anymore. these were fantastic staves and billets. however, every attempt to build a bow failed, even when sinew or rawhide backed. the wood was just too brittle. I would tend to agree with gordon. I was helping a friend of mine on a yew bow from billets he got that were over 40 years old, not a knot in them. it failed on the tiller tree, not just failed but exploded. I am not sure if you can re-hydrate the wood or not, maybe others know more about this.
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I prefer wood that is well seasoned. I have made good bows from quick dried wood that did fine but on a few others I had problems that I attribute to them being not seasoned long enough. I'm fortunate enough to have lots of bow wood so it becomes seasoned just because I can't build bows all that fast. ;D
I do think well seasoned wood is more stable to work with and especially woods like osage, mulberry, locust, etc. Whitewoods seem to handle quick drying better that the above mentioned woods.
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I agree John. The book is an awesome read. The man who helped write it is a friend. Back to the question. I wonder if they preferred to season yew wood longer back then because they didn't store it in dry heated garages? Just a thought.
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well,i should have gotten popcorn.. :D...i was just curios on why...it just seems to me that if you can get a stave cut out that 1yr would be good...keep it coming i like this...john
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John, there is nothing magical about seasoning wood. Dry wood is dry wood whether it took 6 months or 6 years to get to that point.
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you tell em Gordon!
i cut some black locust 2 months ago. The thinnest split (1.5" from back of bark to belly) was good to go 3 weeks ago, perfectly dry. A couple larger staves were not quite dry, and when i rasped them down to shape they gave off a greenish smell. Now they have been reduced, they are nice and dry and also good to go.
Seasoning is about moisture content, as least as far as bowmaking is concerned.
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Thats what I love about this stuff,everyone has there opinion. :) There is probably no real
right answer,Dry wood will make a bow and seasoned wood will make a bow just depends
on what you like,and I like seasoned wood,no nothing magical about it,I just like it better. :)
Pappy
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I recken I'm on the slow side. When I first started I was really gun ho. And cut 100's of osage staves and still have some thats 18 to 20 years old. I was tault a little later to only cut staves as I need. When ever I'm out and about and I find some really nice staves I just store them away to when I need it. But when I do cut it It's uselly a year or so or more to when I GET TO IT. I just don't stock pile any more.
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Pat, how can you tell when your wood is "seasoned"? curious as to what the length of time does to the wood cells, seems like as the wood ages it is in the decomposing process. I had a guy tell me that the Klamath would bury thier bow wood in the lake mud for one year. doesnt seem to make a lot of sense to me, but whatever works. so I guess I need to understand more what age does. little slow I guess :D
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Seasoned wood is best! First soak for six months in salt water.Then I like a little black pepper,sage and lemon basil, Then a touch of garlic and serrono peppers. Simmered until the fibers are softened and the Let stand for two weeks. ;D ;D >:D Sorry John Couldn't resist.
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I just found it interesting that these guys back in the '20s and '30s were finding that when building a bow from yew that was harvested in the summer (sap flowing) that the bow would often "fail". Don't know if that meant it broke upon shooting it or what. But the ones they built that were fall/winter wood they lasted a long time.
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Ancient man, Native Americans and the bowyers from the the 19th and 20th centuries did not know what they were doing. We have all the answers these days. Just ask us. Oh and I never smoked wood but I used to smoke corn silk when I was a kid. :) Jawge
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KEENAN,what a butt...i will see you some time. >:D :-* >:D
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Seasoning is all about relieving internal stress in the wood. When a tree wants to straighten up from wind or from starting to fall over, it makes reaction wood. In yew that is compression wood, which is made at the compression side of the trunk. It can also be found on the underside of all the branches. The reaction wood expands and contracts according to the air moisture. If a stave contains both regular wood and reaction wood, it will bend itself during drying. - that's why it is importand to leave the tips wide untill the stave has dried.
The activity of the reaction wood seems to go down over time. Read the book "Bows and arrows" by James Duff, from the early 20th century. Wood beams from old houses were preferred for arrows for this reason. Really well seasoned wood was also preferred for cabinet making because of less internal stress in the material.
The same goes for bow wood. If the wood in the bow is fighting internal stresses, it won't be able to cope with as much bend as wood where all the cells are dealing with only the stresses from the bending. Also, the wood is more predictable in that it won't bend itself during making it, or even after it is finished.
I have one yew bow which will pull itself into near a foot of reflex when the relative humidity is low, while it is close to straight when air humidity is up in the 50-60%.
Seasoning wood is easy for someone who is making a lot of bows, while it may be hard to wait if one is only going to make a few bows. It is easy to see why many willingly disregard the importance of seasoning. After all, one can make good bows in just weeks. The advantage of well seasoned wood is perhaps not that great, but it is there, and I don't think we should disregard traditional knowledge as easily as some have here...
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Never smoked wood or corn silk but I have smoked Grape vines. ;) ;D ;D Well said kviljo. :)
Pappy