Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DiGi on March 04, 2011, 02:27:57 pm

Title: Roughing out?
Post by: DiGi on March 04, 2011, 02:27:57 pm
Hat tool am I supposed to use to shave down the thickness at a taper? I'm using a planer right now but it's barely taking anything off, is there any way to do it faster? I've been doing this for about a cumulative 3hrs now.
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: dwardo on March 04, 2011, 02:36:15 pm
I tend to go axe, drawknife, scraper, sand paper, burnish.
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: bubby on March 04, 2011, 02:36:30 pm
DiGi, is it a stave or a board, if a board with a pyramid design you can do the limbs up to the fades on a table saw,if no power tools get a good rasp or surform, check out Sam Harpers web site, I think it's bow building for poor folk's
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: bubby on March 04, 2011, 02:38:02 pm
DiGi, it's poor folks bows, lots of good info their
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: bareshaft12 on March 04, 2011, 03:28:57 pm
I use a draw knife and a farriers rasp,
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: DiGi on March 04, 2011, 03:34:23 pm
DiGi, it's poor folks bows, lots of good info their
Yeah I'm using that site to make my bow. The rasp doesn't work well on flat surfaces though.
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: cracker on March 04, 2011, 04:50:37 pm
I turn my save edge hoof rasp up on edge rough out the curve and then use something like a #49 to finish out the shaping.Ron
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Parnell on March 04, 2011, 04:58:58 pm
I use a Stanley 6 inch surform plane.  Works good, moves quickly and controlled.
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Bevan R. on March 04, 2011, 05:05:18 pm
I go from bandsaw, farriers rasp (both sides) to cabnet scrapper. Use this on both rounded and flat surfaces.

Bevan R
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: George Tsoukalas on March 04, 2011, 05:19:16 pm
There are buildalongs on my site where the tools I use are featured. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: toomanyknots on March 04, 2011, 05:30:47 pm
"The rasp doesn't work well on flat surfaces though."

No it doesn't. It can take hours and hours trying to rasp something flat even with a good fairiers rasp. A good way to speed things up is to go at an angle on one side, and then at an angle on other side, so you end up with a pyramid sticking up, which you then rasp away and repeat. This can speed things up a little. So your never really rasping a flat surface cause you keep rasping the corners down. But it can be hard to do this and try to rasp down to a thickness line of a board bow. Also the board is usually kiln dried and brittle, making it easy for pieces of wood to break off. Really makes the bandsaw look real nice when you walk by it at lowes, don't it? :) 
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Michael C. on March 04, 2011, 07:20:38 pm
I love my farriers rasp, it's probably my favorite tool next to my Japanese rasp and hand axe. Some people don't like them because they think it takes to much off, but if you're careful you can get a real smooth cut with the short side and rake off the wood with the high side. I highly recommend the Japanese rasp if you don't like the farriers rasp, they used to be hard to find but I saw one at a woodcraft the other day, if you can get one buy the one with the extra handle on the tip, it's worth it.
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: toomanyknots on March 04, 2011, 07:30:44 pm
"Some people don't like them because they think it takes to much off'

Ha, I wish it took more,
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: sailordad on March 04, 2011, 07:31:55 pm
"Some people don't like them because they think it takes to much off'

Ha, I wish it took more,

just push harder
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Michael C. on March 04, 2011, 07:37:37 pm
Are you talking about a four way or a farriers rasp or am I mixed up on what they are called  :P I'm talking about the bigguns' that are used for horse toenails  ;D
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: sailordad on March 04, 2011, 08:01:49 pm
michael,that is a ferriers rasp  ;)
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: toomanyknots on March 04, 2011, 08:02:33 pm
"just push harder"

Ha.

(http://i56.tinypic.com/30hqvjs.jpg)

I think I mighta pushed too hard. Now it's a normal sized rasp, :):):)

Edit: "What tool am I supposed to use to shave down the thickness at a taper?"

You mean the taper from handle to limb? You should use a ferriers (now I know how to spell it) rasp to take the corner out of the glued up piece for the handle so it's not in your way, then buy one of those rasps that are slightly rounded instead of just a flat rasp, and you can get a curved thickness taper from the handle into the limb with it where as a flat one wouldn't work. And use a ferriers the rest of the way.

Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: sailordad on March 04, 2011, 08:17:15 pm
ya that must have been a  real inexpensive rasp if it borke like that from pushing on it'
i have a real cheap nicholson #49
its seen many board bows,and even more staves
i push hard,aint never had that happen

i use my band saw for cutting a stave down some and cutting the profile
then i use a sure form rasp untill i am at floor tiller
then i switch to my cheap rasp
then i use scraper,sandpaper and thats pretty much it
as far as shaping any part of the bow goes
i use either sure form or rasp at making the slope for the fades
handle shaping etc
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: toomanyknots on March 04, 2011, 10:05:46 pm
"ya that must have been a  real inexpensive rasp if it borke like that from pushing on it"

Come on now, I'm just messin with ya.  ;D I aint he-man or nuthin, broke it like october or something after dropping it out a window. Still gets the job done. 

"i use my band saw for cutting a stave down some and cutting the profile"

I haven't had the convenience of a bandsaw or any saw but a hand saw ever and my process goes straight from axe to rasp, so it can be a royal pain sometimes.

Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: sailordad on March 04, 2011, 10:16:04 pm
my first 6 board bows
and my first stave were all done with nothing but a scraper
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Bevan R. on March 04, 2011, 10:20:52 pm
Ever hear of an ADZ? Kind of a sideways ax. Might be usefull in a situation like this.

Bevan R
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: toomanyknots on March 04, 2011, 10:22:45 pm
"my first 6 board bows
and my first stave were all done with nothing but a scraper"

6? Man, you are a beast. I guess that you are right, just part of the game.

"Ever hear of an ADZ?"

I had no clue that they sold those,  :o  
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Traxx on March 04, 2011, 10:28:47 pm
Did you buy that Rasp new?Cause i have never had a rasp break like that,unless it was stepped on,by a shod horse.
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Bevan R. on March 04, 2011, 10:36:01 pm
If you still have that piece of broken rasp. make your own adz.

Bevan R
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: toomanyknots on March 04, 2011, 10:41:30 pm
"Did you buy that Rasp new?"

Naw, had it about a year and a half. Maybe a little less. It's whatever brand tractor supply co carries, can't imagine it's great quality. Fell out a window from my night stand and hit the concrete last october so ya can't really blame it on the rasp though.
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Michael C. on March 04, 2011, 10:43:47 pm
Woah how the heck did that happen, I could probably stand on mine I don't think it would do that.
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Lee Slikkers on March 04, 2011, 11:22:49 pm
If you still have that piece of broken rasp. make your own adz.

Bevan R

Bevan, that adz is awesome!  Got a how-to or a build-a-long for making one like that?

Thanks~
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Bevan R. on March 04, 2011, 11:34:11 pm

I found it here...

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/21724/t/Northwest-Coast-Adz-natural-crook-handle.html


It has been added to my 'To Do' list. ;)

Bevan R
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Traxx on March 04, 2011, 11:50:33 pm
If ya can,next time,try n find a place,that carries ,higher end Farrier supplies.Getcha a Save edge rasp.You will see a huge difference in them.I have Givein some of my Used ones to folks,such as Ed Scott and John Strunk and they couldnt believe how sharp they were,after being "Used".For the Profession,im extremely picky bout my rasps.Save edge,go for about 25 bucks,but for wood hoggin,i doubt you will need another one,anytime soon.
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: toomanyknots on March 04, 2011, 11:56:01 pm
Good thing to know 2traxx.
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Bevan R. on March 05, 2011, 12:01:51 am
Traxx,
You use the 14 or 17 incher? Found them both on Amazon.

Bevan R
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Badger on March 05, 2011, 01:10:29 am
   I find not all wood works the same with the same tools. My favorite tools are draw knife, spokeshave, rasp and cabinet scraper. Osgae I usually use the draw knife, hardwoods like ipe about 90% cabinet scraper, spokeshave on most white woods. I like my rasps on nearly all the different woods for tough spots. Steve
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: DiGi on March 05, 2011, 04:19:58 am
"The rasp doesn't work well on flat surfaces though."

No it doesn't. It can take hours and hours trying to rasp something flat even with a good fairiers rasp. A good way to speed things up is to go at an angle on one side, and then at an angle on other side, so you end up with a pyramid sticking up, which you then rasp away and repeat. This can speed things up a little. So your never really rasping a flat surface cause you keep rasping the corners down. But it can be hard to do this and try to rasp down to a thickness line of a board bow. Also the board is usually kiln dried and brittle, making it easy for pieces of wood to break off. Really makes the bandsaw look real nice when you walk by it at lowes, don't it? :) 
Yeah I ended up bringing my problem to my neighbor who is real hands on. He let me borrow his handheld belt sander. That worked in 15 minutes! I have one of my own but its stationary so kinda awkward. My band saw makes these cuts in the wood making it look like a bar code along the part it cuts, so i only go so far so i can make it smooth. Thanks for everyone's input!
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Sidewinder on March 05, 2011, 04:26:20 am
I bought one of the Dean Torges bowyers rasps and its a dandy. You do not have to bare down on it jsut smooth strokes and let the tool do the work. He helped design it with a tool maker and it gets it done. I consider it a lifetime tool. I usally use either the ax and draw knife to get it to rough out and then rasp and scraper. . I recently bought a bandsaw and will learn how to maximize it soon enough. I'm waiting for a new Timberwolf blade and then I'm gonna rough out a few bows and speed up my process a little.  Danny
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Lee Slikkers on March 05, 2011, 07:43:18 am
If ya can,next time,try n find a place,that carries ,higher end Farrier supplies.Getcha a Save edge rasp.You will see a huge difference in them.I have Givein some of my Used ones to folks,such as Ed Scott and John Strunk and they couldnt believe how sharp they were,after being "Used".For the Profession,im extremely picky bout my rasps.Save edge,go for about 25 bucks,but for wood hoggin,i doubt you will need another one,anytime soon.

Which length / model do you use or prefer?
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Traxx on March 05, 2011, 04:30:28 pm
Either would work,but for Bow work,id go with the 14".The other is a draft rasp and a bit overkill id think.Another tidbit,that ill throw out there.When brand new,caution should be used,while handleing.The tangs on a new Save edge are extremely sharp and will cut you if handled improperly.In fact,you wont know your cut,till you see blood on yourself and your project.You shoulda seen the fast talkin and convinceing i had to do to a panicked woman,when she saw MY blood all over her horses lower leg.It took a bit to convince her,it was my blood,not her horses.LOL
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Bevan R. on March 05, 2011, 04:37:55 pm
When brand new,caution should be used,while handling.The tangs on a new Save edge are extremely sharp and will cut you if handled improperly.In fact,you wont know your cut,till you see blood on yourself and your project.

Michael & Lee, you bleeders paying attention?? >:D

Bevan R
Title: Re: Roughing out?
Post by: Lee Slikkers on March 05, 2011, 04:49:29 pm
LOL, yup I am...was trying to recall the name of an old Ferrier I know on the east side of the state so I could beg/borrow/steal a "slightly dulled" version  ::)