Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: fishfinder401 on February 24, 2011, 04:09:05 am
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i was wondering, without using 1 single piece of wood, what would be a good combination to make VERY heavy bows, im at 140 now and my goal is to be able to do 200+ by next year, and try to break the record for the heaviest bow pulled, or at least set the record for minors.
any input on designs is appreciated, the one im planing now is going to be 80 long hopefully 150-160 and made of ipe maple backed ipe, as those seem the best that i can get for it in my area for a reasonable price
thanks
noel
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You may get some criticism for trying but go for it, I don't think an Ipe back will take that much, if you are set on making the bow yourself try bamboo or hickory backed Ipe, you may want to contact fairbow as they have made a 180lb bow from that combination, and you say record for minors how old are you.
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You may get some criticism for trying but go for it, I don't think an Ipe back will take that much, if you are set on making the bow yourself try bamboo or hickory backed Ipe, you may want to contact fairbow as they have made a 180lb bow from that combination, and you say record for minors how old are you.
the ipe wouldn't be the backing, the maple would, and thats only because it is readily available, otherwise i would go for hickory . i am 16 now, and if i reach my goal i will be 17 then ;D, and im curious why i would get criticism ???
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Maple wont stand up to that weight either, unless you can get it to a single growth ring but you'll still struggle, what weight can you pull at the minute
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Maple wont stand up to that weight either, unless you can get it to a single growth ring but you'll still struggle, what weight can you pull at the minute
at the moment around 140-150, what will work as a backing, im new to backing bows
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Hickory or bamboo I think are the only ones that will take that weight
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Hickory or bamboo I think are the only ones that will take that weight
ok good to know, i would rather find out via the internet, instead of a piece of maple in my arm ;D
thanks
noel
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Its not nice ive completely shattered a maple backed ipe bow they really go with a bang,
Good Luck and let us know how it goes
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Its not nice ive completely shattered a maple backed ipe bow they really go with a bang,
Good Luck and let us know how it goes
thanks for the help and ill be sure to show my progress till that point ;D
by the way do you think its possible to build up to that point from where i am now, i'm only aiming for 205 or 210 although if i can do better i will try ;D
thanks
noel
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If I was you i would shoot 140 for the rest of the year still the heaviest bow out of anyone for your age, then when you shoot that bow all day go to 150 then every year go up 10lb then in 5 years you'll have 190 not only that you will be a great archer, ive seen loads of people who shoot heavy weights and it is silly when they squeeze the life of of a 140+ bow just to get 220 yards with it, 10 years ago pulling that weight would have been impressive but nowadays every man and his dog can pull a heavy bow controlling it and launching military arrows a long way is far more impressive.
Ive no double if you are able to make the bows that one day you will pull 210 what condition your body will be in is another story.
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i know what you mean, something tells me alot of people just get the heaviest bow they can, yank it back and see where it goes, thats why i am going to try to make sure i can aim it very well, and even when i hit my goal weight i will continue to practice and get more experienced with heavy bows, becasue in my opinion just pulling the bow is only half the battle, the other is being able to be comfortable and aim it well, thats what using a bow entails in my opinion ;D. in all reality i may not hit my goal weight for next year but i know i will probably be able to get the record for a minor and if i can do that ill be happy.
thanks
noel
PS: if it seems like my ego starts to get to big as i get close to my goal, let me know, then pop my overinflated ego with an arrow ;D
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Heaviest bow pulled from someone under 18 I know, is Joseph Gibbs when he was that age. Don't remember exactly, but I think he said he pulled 170# at the age of 17. Eirik Diserud pulled a 143#@32" yew just before he turned 18. Also there were this Duch boy at 15 pulling 130#@32" with ease last year at Batsford.
-You are in a fine league, there's not many people your age pulling theese bows :)
As for your lamination project I think I would have tried bamboo for the back. Perfect hickory or ash (at least northern European ash) would also work, but boo would have been the best.
I don't know what you have as local wood, but there are more woods than yew that makes heavy warbows. If you have access to wytch elm, laburnum, osage, BL or good ash, they all make good warbows.
For laminating, try to use something a little less compression strong than ipe, and you will not overpower the backing wood so much. Ash, hickory, birch, hazel etc. backing plus several types of oak as a belly is a good combination, and often easy accessable.
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Heaviest bow pulled from someone under 18 I know, is Joseph Gibbs when he was that age. Don't remember exactly, but I think he said he pulled 170# at the age of 17. Eirik Diserud pulled a 143#@32" yew just before he turned 18. Also there were this Duch boy at 15 pulling 130#@32" with ease last year at Batsford.
-You are in a fine league, there's not many people your age pulling theese bows :)
As for your lamination project I think I would have tried bamboo for the back. Perfect hickory or ash (at least northern European ash) would also work, but boo would have been the best.
I don't know what you have as local wood, but there are more woods than yew that makes heavy warbows. If you have access to wytch elm, laburnum, osage, BL or good ash, they all make good warbows.
For laminating, try to use something a little less compression strong than ipe, and you will not overpower the backing wood so much. Ash, hickory, birch, hazel etc. backing plus several types of oak as a belly is a good combination, and often easy accessable.
where could i get a 80+ inch bamboo backing strip that is over 1 inch wide?
and thanks for the compliment, do you know if anyone has actually had the weight certifies for under 18, if not, ill think ill set the bar at hopefully 200, but realistically i'm hoping 170-180, then when older going for 210, i am now thinking that i will use a bamboo backed ipe bow 84 long including tips, what if i had a maple core bamboo back and ipe belly, that might take some strees off of the backing
PS" if you know anyone who wants to attempt to build a very heavy bow and have someone try it out, il volunteer ;D
thanks
noel
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..I have a 220#'er wytch elm, but it's allready sold/traded.. I have plans to make more bows this heavy, but I have 4 kids so I'm not working as fast as I want to :)
-I have a 150# osage soon ready for Eirik D, and I'm working on a 190#'er wytch elm for Gibbs. I also have some bows ranging from 120 to 170# that I will finish during spring. Hopefully I'll have time to make myself a bow soon too :)
Anyways, a maple core might be a good idea. They use maple as a core in hornbows between the horn and the sinew, so it should do god as a core in trilams. I wouldn't know where your closest boo supplier is, but it shouldn't be too hard to find.
What wood do you have access too? There must be some native wood you can use for warbows..?
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I am looking forward to seeing more the of the wytch elm, when that 190 is done I would love to see pictures. ;D
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..I have a 220#'er wytch elm, but it's allready sold/traded.. I have plans to make more bows this heavy, but I have 4 kids so I'm not working as fast as I want to :)
-I have a 150# osage soon ready for Eirik D, and I'm working on a 190#'er wytch elm for Gibbs. I also have some bows ranging from 120 to 170# that I will finish during spring. Hopefully I'll have time to make myself a bow soon too :)
Anyways, a maple core might be a good idea. They use maple as a core in hornbows between the horn and the sinew, so it should do god as a core in trilams. I wouldn't know where your closest boo supplier is, but it shouldn't be too hard to find.
What wood do you have access too? There must be some native wood you can use for warbows..?
if i was to use a stave i have black locust, and at a property we have a few hours away we have ash and rock maple, i'm planning on getting some of that next time i go up, but for now i wanted to try a tri lam bow, as i don't have to dry it and a lacal lumber place has ipe, home depot has the maple and now i just need to find the bamboo, im having trouble finding over 72 inches, and at that its already more expensive than the ipe,
thanks for the advice
noel
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i think i have a place were i could get hickory, would it be fine if i just used that instead of bamboo, and if i do use it, what type of grain do i look for, i have seen it with the grain stacked from side to side and top to bottom, so i'm not sure which is better?
thanks
noel
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It depends if you can take it to a single growth ring or not a 1/4 sawn hickory back will be fine, if you can take it to a single growth ring then that would be better.
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It depends if you can take it to a single growth ring or not a 1/4 sawn hickory back will be fine, if you can take it to a single growth ring then that would be better.
ok, that gives me some options then, especially now that i know what i am looking for ;D
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-And try BL. Especially with a heat treated belly I believe it to be excellent for heavy bows. I've only worked one piece of BL, and even though that is coming out a flatbow 80-100#, it feels like it manage a longbow design up to 150# maybe more.
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Can you clarify what BL is the only thing I can think of is Black Locust
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Can you clarify what BL is the only thing I can think of is Black Locust
-And try BL. Especially with a heat treated belly I believe it to be excellent for heavy bows. I've only worked one piece of BL, and even though that is coming out a flatbow 80-100#, it feels like it manage a longbow design up to 150# maybe more.
thanks for letting me know, i actually have some i am going to be cutting soon to start drying, Ian bl in this case im pretty sure does mean black locust. the one i think i will be using is around 15inches across and has some nice sized rings. when i do use it, should leave some sapwood for a back, because i know the heartwood is very good in compression but im not sure about tension
thanks ;D
noel
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yep, black locust.
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Black locust has good tensil strength. I have left a few rings of sapwood on locust bows but I knew it was sound and they were in the 50# to 60# range, not 150#.
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Black locust has good tensil strength. I have left a few rings of sapwood on locust bows but I knew it was sound and they were in the 50# to 60# range, not 150#.
so if i were to attempt even a 100 bow with bl, should i just go very wide and long? i really don't feel like pulling wood out of my arm, and is it good if the rings are thick, as the tree i might be using i have a cross section cut out because we needed to know when it was planted for something, but the rings i am thinking of using are around 1/4 thick, the thing that confuses me is that on the cross section we cut, the center with the 1/4 in rings split out almost completely from the rest, and after the split the rings are only like 1/8-1/16, what could have caused this, or was it just a coincidence
thanks
noel
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growth rings on BL should favor the late growth rings as much as possible over the early growth rings. As long as you heat the belly, I don't think you need the heartwood.. The one I've tried is almost without any heartwood at all, and I would definately try it for a 140#'er. Might be the heartwood is better in compression, but I've never had BL with heartwood to try :)
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growth rings on BL should favor the late growth rings as much as possible over the early growth rings. As long as you heat the belly, I don't think you need the heartwood.. The one I've tried is almost without any heartwood at all, and I would definately try it for a 140#'er. Might be the heartwood is better in compression, but I've never had BL with heartwood to try :)
once i check this tree and make sure it will work, if i get allot of stave's, we might be able to make a trade so you can try tome heart wood, but i'm not exactly sure of the condition inside as some of the trees near it had ant problems, i really hope this one doesn't ;D
noel
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-Sounds great! I have both wytch elm and very dense ash to trade. (The local ash is not at all like your average ash in the states. I've had ash up to .93 SG)
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-Sounds great! I have both wytch elm and very dense ash to trade. (The local ash is not at all like your average ash in the states. I've had ash up to .93 SG)
ill let you know when i find out about the staves, and ash that dense :o i thought some ash i had seen near my house was dense, but i know its nowhere near that, thats like ipe dense
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Here is a 247 pounder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNKeYXzki8
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im curious why i would get criticism ???
Because pulling super heavy bows is not just hard on the muscles, it is hard on the skeleton. Your skeleton is still growing and putting a lot of stress on it can cause permanent damage that can be crippling. I know the urge to draw heavy weights is the same as the draw to bench more or squat more or all of those other things that men do because of testosterone. But be careful, it isn't worth a permanent disability.
Justin
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im curious why i would get criticism ???
Because pulling super heavy bows is not just hard on the muscles, it is hard on the skeleton. Your skeleton is still growing and putting a lot of stress on it can cause permanent damage that can be crippling. I know the urge to draw heavy weights is the same as the draw to bench more or squat more or all of those other things that men do because of testosterone. But be careful, it isn't worth a permanent disability.
Justin
thanks for the warning,and don't worry my body is used to heavy weights, i've been benching 250 for 3 years, but i still watch out for any signs of injury
thanks
noel
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Noel, I pretty much went through this discussion a while ago on here. I haven't had time to work on drawing heavy bows but I do want to get back into it eventually. There's a guy on here, Marlon Torrez, who goes by heavybows who is ridiculously strong and still struggles to break the world record. Check him out on his youtube channel and you'll see what I mean. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try but take your time. You're mind will push you past your body's limits and that's what causes injury. Listen to your body and good luck.
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Noel, I pretty much went through this discussion a while ago on here. I haven't had time to work on drawing heavy bows but I do want to get back into it eventually. There's a guy on here, Marlon Torrez, who goes by heavybows who is ridiculously strong and still struggles to break the world record. Check him out on his youtube channel and you'll see what I mean. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try but take your time. You're mind will push you past your body's limits and that's what causes injury. Listen to your body and good luck.
thanks for the encouragement ;D, i will look him up, my new revised goal is set record for minors with a years and half more training, then in the next 5-10 years train for the all around record. slowly building up my body
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i take my hat of to you!! i'm 18 and at the moment i use a 175lb @ 32" english warbow. i thought she was heavy; she's the highest draw weight at my local club. Keep it up!!
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Hi Celtic Archer. Whereabouts in Oz are you based?. There's a warbow outfit in Victoria who would love to get in touch with someone shooting 175lbs. I didn't know RH produced warbows of such a high poundage.
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i take my hat of to you!! i'm 18 and at the moment i use a 175lb @ 32" english warbow. i thought she was heavy; she's the highest draw weight at my local club. Keep it up!!
no, right now, hats off to you ;D, i will hopefully be where you are by the end of the summer
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Hi Celtic Archer. Whereabouts in Oz are you based?. There's a warbow outfit in Victoria who would love to get in touch with someone shooting 175lbs. I didn't know RH produced warbows of such a high poundage.
I'm in South-East Queensland :)
Richard can make practically anything if you request it. I've ordered several bows in the past from him so he knows me well!! Unfortunately my numro uno is my only RH bow; the very same bow has inspired me to build my own heavyweight warbow! :D
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There are lots of warnings about heavy weight causing injury, and all of them are meant to save people from getting them.
-I think the most important for avoiding them is not avoiding heavy bows, but develloping a good technique before you go for the heavy weights.
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I would be very interested to see a full draw picture of that bow, can we have some specs what sort of distance can it achieve and what type of yew is it.
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There are lots of warnings about heavy weight causing injury, and all of them are meant to save people from getting them.
-I think the most important for avoiding them is not avoiding heavy bows, but develloping a good technique before you go for the heavy weights.
i realise that, thats why currently im going to stay around the 120-150 range, right now im comfortable doing that and can do it for long periods but i want to make sure i am fully acclimated beyond what i can initially feel. i am hoping to graduate from that range by the end of the summer and then get into some serious stuff ;). i will be doing this hopefully with heavy weights which i have been slacking off on latley