Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Pat B on February 21, 2011, 09:38:48 pm

Title: Tree ID
Post by: Pat B on February 21, 2011, 09:38:48 pm
Anyone know what these are?
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/trees003.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/trees002.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/trees001.jpg)
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: John K on February 21, 2011, 09:46:16 pm
This around your neck of the woods ?
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: HickoryBill on February 21, 2011, 09:52:38 pm
Looks like a camouflage tree to me!!! ;D ;D  Maybe aspen, cottonwood?? Not sure.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: DarkSoul on February 21, 2011, 10:15:53 pm
Identifying a tree by its bark is like judging a book by its cover: nearly impossble ;) Bark in young trees is often different from bark in old trees.
Can you perhaps provide us with a pic of the twigs, the old leaves, the buds, the endgrain...? It would all greatly help.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: sailordad on February 21, 2011, 10:52:58 pm
im like hickorybill
aspen or cottonwood  ;)
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Timo on February 21, 2011, 10:55:18 pm
popular or beech?
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: jthompson1995 on February 21, 2011, 11:10:49 pm
They're trees!  ;D >:D
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Elktracker on February 21, 2011, 11:21:45 pm
Looks like a Alder tree to me
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: ken75 on February 21, 2011, 11:25:51 pm
i think beech , leaves look similar to elm but even on the back not lobed and wider
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: PeteC on February 22, 2011, 12:16:33 am
Pat,do y'all have beech trees over there?That is what it looks like, going by the bark alone.They get huge in the  Big Thicket of east Texas. God Bless
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Thomas on February 22, 2011, 12:22:18 am
I think they're poplar. I  saw some just yesterday, while out hiking with my kids and had the benefit of seeing the rest of the tree. I know that they were poplar and they look just like yours.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Lee Slikkers on February 22, 2011, 12:23:10 am
possibly Sycamore....
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: mullet on February 22, 2011, 12:52:24 am
 That's not my neighborhood. ???
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: hook on February 22, 2011, 01:14:41 am
first thought is beech.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: fishfinder401 on February 22, 2011, 01:29:40 am
i say either beech or soft maple, but need to see leaves
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Pat B on February 22, 2011, 02:24:45 am
This was a test and an example of how vague some folks are when trying ti ID trees.  ;D  Dark Soul, you are exactly right. Not enough information. These three trees are 1) beech, 2) red maple, 3) Frasier magnolia.  Three different trees but unless you closely look at the characteristics of each most folks couldn't tell the difference.
  I walked around my woods yesterday and took about 40 pics of tree bark and the variations in the same species and the same tree in some cases.  The bark is only one indication of what tree we are identifying. And, as a tree matures the bark changes and in some cases dramatically.
  I am very fortunate that in my county there are many, many different varieties of trees. Many more than are in most areas.
Here are a few more if you still want to guess what they are...
 (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/trees004.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/trees007.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/trees005.jpg)
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: fishfinder401 on February 22, 2011, 02:44:11 am
that makes alot of sense, you strike me as the type of person who knows his trees, so i was a little confused, but those do look incredibly similar, the only reason i knew one was beech and one maple, was because near my house we have to much maple, and or property in Mass has to much beech, some very  large, one was 2+ thick, they do get big up there, there is also a white birch that must be pushing 4ft thick :o, which is right next to a pine even bigger
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Timo on February 22, 2011, 09:33:27 am
Tricky devil there Pat! >:D

Since we don't have any of those species here, I had a tough time.

Now for todays trees? First one looks like Elm, but also like a young white oak-   post oak-  red oak?
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: beetlebailey1977 on February 22, 2011, 10:46:22 am
Ok on the last three.  1st one is either water elm or hop hornbeam.  2nd is persimmon or a ash.  3rd may be black cherry.  Thats my guess.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: JustinNC on February 22, 2011, 11:01:58 am
1)??? 2) white oak 3)northern red oak....hmm not deeply furrowed, may be souther red or scarlet oak...............can we have some twig/bud photos PLEEEEASE.

Pat I took dendrology when I was at Haywood CC...we took labs all over Haywood, Jackson, and Transylvania counties...the southern appalachains are without a doubt the most diverse area in the country, and possibly the north american continent for flora. It's amazing to see a 3-4' DBH black/wild cherry up there and straight as an arrow, and down here theyre worthless as a timber product.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: RidgeRunner on February 22, 2011, 11:13:51 am
Last three:
Post oak, White oak and Red oak

Did not have a clue on the first three.

David
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: okie64 on February 22, 2011, 11:15:05 am
The top two pics are post oaks and the bottom pic I'm not sure. Maybe black cherry?
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: okie64 on February 22, 2011, 11:22:04 am
Bottom one might be northern red oak.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Lee Slikkers on February 22, 2011, 12:32:29 pm
Pat, great topic and a perfect example of some of the challenges in regards to identifying a tree by it's bark only....especially a tree at various sizes, ages of growth.  I have always been an outdoors "nut" and have prided myself in being able to identify almost any bird, animal, insect and track/sign.  However, one area I have always been lacking in (and never honestly had a huge urge or passion to improve upon) was my plant/tree identification.  Now, as I find myself getting pulled deeper and deeper into this world or making bows I have a VERY good reason and need to improve my knowledge in this area.

I have been actively walking/searching my property, my fathers and my uncles searching for any quality bow making wood...I was made even more aware and just how lacking I was at Tree ID while looking at leafless trees with a variety of bark examples in a single grove of trees which I happened to know what they were.  Looking for species which I do not know was/is almost out of the question at this point.

I did stumble on a pretty helpful site last night as I was searching for some reference or guide to be of some help in my search.

http://forestry.about.com/od/hardwoods/Individual_Hardwood_Species.htm (http://forestry.about.com/od/hardwoods/Individual_Hardwood_Species.htm)

http://www.forestryimages.org/browse/catsubject.cfm?cat=57 (http://www.forestryimages.org/browse/catsubject.cfm?cat=57)

However, even on this site as you look over the various pictures and examples of a particular species you can see a large variance in the shape, look and appearance of the bark on a specific tree species.

Anyway, thanks for your thought provoking thread...very timely for me.

Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: fishfinder401 on February 22, 2011, 12:39:29 pm
i say oak, ash cherry
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: nclonghunter on February 22, 2011, 02:23:18 pm
I would like to see the entire tree, but given what's there I'll stick my neck out some...first pic is a rock maple, 2nd is a sugar maple and last two are oaks..a white and a red.....just guessing

You gonna tell us for sure Pat?
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: JackCrafty on February 22, 2011, 02:33:42 pm
Hmmm... not juniper or osage.  Doesn't matter. Firewood.  ;D
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Lee Slikkers on February 22, 2011, 03:00:16 pm
Hmmm... not juniper or osage.  Doesn't matter. Firewood.  ;D

Thanks a pretty good answer  ;D and since  can't seem to find a local source for Osage it's even more simple for me since Juniper (or ERC here) is a fairly simple tree to ID.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Marc St Louis on February 22, 2011, 03:20:35 pm
Look a bit like Birch to me
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: fishfinder401 on February 22, 2011, 03:48:56 pm
Look a bit like Birch to me
I've never seen birch like any of those
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Pat B on February 22, 2011, 06:26:26 pm
JustinNC nailed it. The first two are white oak. The hourglass shape of the trunk on the smaller one is typical with white oaks here. The third is a red oak, either Northern or Southern red oaks.
 I have more and I will post them tonight. All the pics I took were of the trunks/bark at about eye level. With some it is easy to ID but with others size makes a big difference as to what the bark looks like. Even from one side of the tree or the other.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Marc St Louis on February 22, 2011, 06:34:51 pm
Look a bit like Birch to me
I've never seen birch like any of those

I was commenting on the first set of pictures
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: JustinNC on February 22, 2011, 06:36:19 pm
JustinNC nailed it. The first two are white oak. The hourglass shape of the trunk on the smaller one is typical with white oaks here. The third is a red oak, either Northern or Southern red oaks.
 I have more and I will post them tonight. All the pics I took were of the trunks/bark at about eye level. With some it is easy to ID but with others size makes a big difference as to what the bark looks like. Even from one side of the tree or the other.

White oak and red maple are two of the more fun trees to identify by bark......red maple being relatively easy being as it has opposite venation. White oak for the most part is pretty much the same, and 2nd pic is a good example, the first pic is a classic example now that I know what it is, of how some white oaks have a blocky bark up to about head high before turning ash colored and flaky.

Red maple, unless you live where  there are several species of maples, are perhaps the most diverse in their bark characteristics.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: fishfinder401 on February 22, 2011, 07:32:35 pm
Look a bit like Birch to me
I've never seen birch like any of those

I was commenting on the first set of pictures
that would make allot more sense ha-ha
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: nclonghunter on February 22, 2011, 11:33:34 pm
Cool idea Pat, guess I got 3 out of 4...well done Justin. It might be neat to mark the trees in some fashion with numbers then go back and post the leaves or buds that match the trunks later on....sort of following the tree as the seasons progress. Perhaps even another thread for tree and plant identification everyone could post to. I would like to see more photos of the elms and hop hornbeam trees as the bud,flower and leaf out.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: JustinNC on February 22, 2011, 11:40:59 pm
I remember twig and bud ID. I can't remember them ALL but I do remember taking an exam on about 80 twigs and buds and nothing more to I D them by...tough but fun. I loved dendrology.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Lee Slikkers on February 23, 2011, 12:12:44 am
Cool idea Pat, guess I got 3 out of 4...well done Justin. It might be neat to mark the trees in some fashion with numbers then go back and post the leaves or buds that match the trunks later on....sort of following the tree as the seasons progress. Perhaps even another thread for tree and plant identification everyone could post to. I would like to see more photos of the elms and hop hornbeam trees as the bud,flower and leaf out.

I think some like that would be an excellent resource (at least for newbies like myself)
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Pat B on February 23, 2011, 01:18:02 am
Here are a few more...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/trees009-1.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/trees010-1.jpg)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/trees013-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Timo on February 23, 2011, 01:27:02 am
Well, then look like persimmons.The 3rd one looks a bit different, but it's alot older.

If they are, then they are alot lighter colored than ours.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Pat B on February 23, 2011, 02:20:50 am
Hint!  #1 and #2 are the same tree.  ;)
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: nclonghunter on February 23, 2011, 10:29:24 am
Elm and dogwood...?
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Timo on February 23, 2011, 10:33:14 am
never thought about dogwood? we have so few of them around my area,and never seen any that big,never give that a thought? Looks like the pics I've seen of it though.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: JustinNC on February 23, 2011, 11:08:39 am
sourwood and dogwood
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: okie64 on February 23, 2011, 11:09:31 am
No idea on the top 2. Bottom one looks a little like persimmon.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: JustinNC on February 23, 2011, 11:16:48 am
I'll take my prize now....I'm thinking a stave should be fine.  ;D
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: crooketarrow on February 23, 2011, 11:29:13 am
  The first one the only  try colored bark tree around here (WV) that looks like that is sycamore. The second is white oak third is red oak. Not sure about the 4 th but looks like black oak but the last looks a little big for around here but looks like flowering woodwood tree.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Pat B on February 23, 2011, 12:48:13 pm
You nailed it again, Justin. The first 2 are sourwood and like I said both pics are from the same tree, one from the north(down hill) side the other from the south(up hill side) but both at the same level. This shows how much variation there is in tree bark even on the same tree and at the same level.   The other is a flowering dogwood. This is an older tree but not the biggest around.

 As the winner Justin recieves my admiration and respect!  ;D
 
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: JustinNC on February 23, 2011, 01:10:41 pm
You nailed it again, Justin. The first 2 are sourwood and like I said both pics are from the same tree, one from the north(down hill) side the other from the south(up hill side) but both at the same level. This shows how much variation there is in tree bark even on the same tree and at the same level.   The other is a flowering dogwood. This is an older tree but not the biggest around.

 As the winner Justin recieves my admiration and respect!  ;D
 

That's better than a stick any day ;D
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Elktracker on February 23, 2011, 01:32:52 pm
Well I think I know who I will be PMing for tree IDs lol ;D
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: nclonghunter on February 23, 2011, 01:48:30 pm
Well done Justin...the sourwood confused me, the deep furrows made me think of a winged elm or possibly a sugar gum, but not a sourwood. I remember the sourwood as having darker bark and a little charred or burned look. This is fun,Thanks Pat
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: Pat B on February 23, 2011, 01:59:33 pm
I've always loved trees. Years ago a friend and I would take woods walks and started a little contest to see who could ID different trees. After both of us got good at IDing most of the trees in the area(this was coastal SC) we changed the rules so you could only look at the bottom 4' of the tree. That put a wrinkle in how well we could ID trees but it tought both of us some good, useful info.
  Twig and buds are probably the best ID next to flowers. The structure of a tree is also a very good ID method as are leaves. Once you learn a few of these methods and utilize them tree ID becomes a lot easier. If you are a selfbow builder, knowing trees and their characteristics will serve you well in your bow building.
  A good tree ID book like the Audubon Field Guides(and others) are a great resource and are made to carry with you in the field.
 I'm not a taxonomist or a dendrologist but I love trees so IDing them is fun for me. Like riding a bike, once you learn it is isn't hard to remember most of the info.
Title: Re: Tree ID
Post by: JustinNC on February 23, 2011, 02:14:02 pm
I've always loved trees. Years ago a friend and I would take woods walks and started a little contest to see who could ID different trees. After both of us got good at IDing most of the trees in the area(this was coastal SC) we changed the rules so you could only look at the bottom 4' of the tree. That put a wrinkle in how well we could ID trees but it tought both of us some good, useful info.
  Twig and buds are probably the best ID next to flowers. The structure of a tree is also a very good ID method as are leaves. Once you learn a few of these methods and utilize them tree ID becomes a lot easier. If you are a selfbow builder, knowing trees and their characteristics will serve you well in your bow building.
  A good tree ID book like the Audubon Field Guides(and others) are a great resource and are made to carry with you in the field.
 I'm not a taxonomist or a dendrologist but I love trees so IDing them is fun for me. Like riding a bike, once you learn it is isn't hard to remember most of the info.

Yep, leaves are only on 6mo out of the year, only leaves bark and twigs to ID by after that. Structure is a good one too, but woods grown and open grown are totally different. Shade tolerance and moisture tolerance are two subtle clues to help determine.

Once you learn all the different tree species, you can catalog different characteristics....deeply furrowed bark...hmmm sourwood, black locust, large honey locust, large walnut, chestnut oak....then you can narrow it down again with other characteristics.

First thing I look at when I can is venation. If it's alternate then it could be a variety of things....if it's opposite it's a MAD Cap Horse....Maple Ash Dogwood...Caprifoliaceae (viburnums)...horsechestnut (buck eye)