Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: fishfinder401 on February 13, 2011, 01:49:37 am
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i just finished my first 100+ osage bow, and im having a little problem. the problem is that used side knocks and they are working fine, except for the fact that there is a small crack forming under where the string is, at first it was just one tip, and i figured it was nothing, but it looks like it is starting to form on the other. what should i do
thanks
noel
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Noel, are the cracks going from the nock towards the limb? If so, you need to find a fix before you string it again. You say it pulls 100#+. Definately fix it before stringing it again. You may have to reshape the tips and add horn nocks. There were reasons for using horn nocks on heavy bows and thier beauty wasn't the main one. ;)
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Noel, are the cracks going from the nock towards the limb? If so, you need to find a fix before you string it again. You say it pulls 100#+. Definately fix it before stringing it again. You may have to reshape the tips and add horn nocks. There were reasons for using horn nocks on heavy bows and thier beauty wasn't the main one. ;)
they go straight down with the grain about an inch, how would i add a horn nock, as i'm not sure the shape would fit, its around 1inch thick right before the nock and 1/2 thick, would dear antler work?
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Can you post pics? Antler might work. Is this a flat bow or an ELB style?
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Can you post pics? Antler might work. Is this a flat bow or an ELB style?
flat bow, ill try to get a picture in a minute
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i think this will work
i went over it with a pencil to make it obvious
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I would put thin super glue down in the crack and clamp it. When cured I'd add an antler overlay and underlay to support those nocks...or better yet after the super glue is cured a sinew wrap just below the nock. Did you say this bow is 100#+? If your bow is 100# I really don't have the experience to say.
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I would put thin super glue down in the crack and clamp it. When cured I'd add an antler overlay and underlay to support those nocks...or better yet after the super glue is cured a sinew wrap just below the nock. Did you say this bow is 100#+? If your bow is 100# I really don't have the experience to say.
it is somewhere in the neighbor hood of 110-120, how would i attach the underlay and overlay? and what type of blue would you use for the sinew, iv'e never used it before, would flex coat epoxy work?
thanks
noel
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what if i were to make tips out of these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Unpolished-Water-Buffalo-Horn-Horns-Animals-Bones-/150547203198?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item230d50047e#ht_763wt_905
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I'm no expert, but I would think that you could just wrap the tips with silk thread and then coat it with crazy glue. With a bow that heavy, some kind of overlays would probably be a good idea though.
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Why side nocks? I was stringing a bow one time and the string slipped out of one nock and put all the pressure on the opposite side nock, the limb split 6" down into the limb. I had this happen one more time on another bow, never made another bow without tip overlays. In about 125 bows with overlays I had one overlay become partially unglued and take the back of the bow with it as it popped off. I highly recommend double nocks with an overlay on bows of higher poundage.
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I am familiar with single side nocks but I've never seen any like this. Where did you get this design?
To me, they are set up for disaster. The tips are too thin and wide and the depth and shape of the nocks lends itself to splitting the grain apart and especially with so much draw weight. Thicker, narrower tips would work better, IMO. Look at the English war bows. Their tips are at least 1/2"x1/2" and even with a single side nock the nock holds the string without that deep of a nock. The weight of the bow will keep the string in the nock.
After thinking about it I think I would add overlays and underlays and even a wrap over them to insure that the tip design will hold up to that much weight.
That buff horn will work but don't you have something available so you don't have to order water buffalo horns. Deer antler, bone, goat horn, etc. Check out Pet Smart or other similar pet store for dog bones, etc that would be appropriate.
Where did you get that design? ???
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I would definitely sand and glue on a large horn overlay...about 2-1/2" long with a lot of taper to help distribute the stress out over a larger area. It would appear that the single side nock is putting a lot of excess pressure on one side causing the wood to fail. I've been buying horn knife scales from Ebay. ;) Jim
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I am familiar with single side nocks but I've never seen any like this. Where did you get this design?
To me, they are set up for disaster. The tips are too thin and wide and the depth and shape of the nocks lends itself to splitting the grain apart and especially with so much draw weight. Thicker, narrower tips would work better, IMO. Look at the English war bows. Their tips are at least 1/2"x1/2" and even with a single side nock the nock holds the string without that deep of a nock. The weight of the bow will keep the string in the nock.
After thinking about it I think I would add overlays and underlays and even a wrap over them to insure that the tip design will hold up to that much weight.
That buff horn will work but don't you have something available so you don't have to order water buffalo horns. Deer antler, bone, goat horn, etc. Check out Pet Smart or other similar pet store for dog bones, etc that would be appropriate.
Where did you get that design? ???
i made that design my self, originally it wasn't so deep, but when i saw the crack, i tried to get it so the pressure wasn't on the crack, so would it be better to put an overlay on it, or fit horn nocks onto the tips, so the stuff at pet smart is just regular horn or bone, i wasn't sure if anything was added, that seems like it might be my best bet, as i have no real resources for putting an overlay.
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For a bow that heavy your design is not very practical from what I can see. If you are interested in heavy bows, check out the War Bow thread. Those guys build very heavy bows and are familiar with what is needed to support such high draw weights. Most of us guys here on the "Bows" thread build bows of hunting and target weights, about 1/2 or less of what you want to build.
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For a bow that heavy your design is not very practical from what I can see. If you are interested in heavy bows, check out the War Bow thread. Those guys build very heavy bows and are familiar with what is needed to support such high draw weights. Most of us guys here on the "Bows" thread build bows of hunting and target weights, about 1/2 or less of what you want to build.
ok, im just wondering what isn't practical, im new to this and id'e like to know
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The wide thin limb tip with a single deeply cut nock at a steep angle. The string is putting the full weight of the draw down in the nock cutout over the end grain of the stave. Like driving a 100#+ wedge into the end of the bow. With a thicker and narrower tip your string groove can go around the bow still supporting the draw weight all the way around.
For that tip design I would be sure to have overlays and possibly underlays at the tip to prevent the string from "wedgeing" into the wood end grain. You might even get away with kerfing the tip and adding a tough spine of horn, bone or cross grain hardwood.
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The wide thin limb tip with a single deeply cut nock at a steep angle. The string is putting the full weight of the draw down in the nock cutout over the end grain of the stave. Like driving a 100#+ wedge into the end of the bow. With a thicker and narrower tip your string groove can go around the bow still supporting the draw weight all the way around.
For that tip design I would be sure to have overlays and possibly underlays at the tip to prevent the string from "wedgeing" into the wood end grain. You might even get away with kerfing the tip and adding a tough spine of horn, bone or cross grain hardwood.
what is kerfing? and could i use the cow hoofs you find at pet stores for an overlay?
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If it was me, I would cut the nocks off and make double nocks, I'd also pad the serving on my string loops. Are you using Fast Flight type of string or B-50?
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If it was me, I would cut the nocks off and make double nocks, I'd also pad the serving on my string loops. Are you using Fast Flight type of string or B-50?
i was actually just using a rope like a 1/4 across, hadn't had one made yet, but i am considering remaking with doubles
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what if i put a thick fiberglass reinforcement on the tips? ???
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You don't need fibreglass. Just add horn or antler overlays on tne nocks like Pat suggested. And cut your angle different so you take the stress off the top of the groove.
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You don't need fibreglass. Just add horn or antler overlays on tne nocks like Pat suggested. And cut your angle different so you take the stress off the top of the groove.
th reason i wanted to use fiberglass is that i actually have some and what i would do is heavily reinforce it, like a 1/4 inch layer so i could keep the same tip, i know it wouldnt be the most effective, but i think it would work, and i could color it to make it look slightly like horn
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You can heat it some and drop thin Loc-Tite super glue in the crack and clamp it. Then add your horn and cut a groove in the other side. It will do the same thing and you won't have to redo the nocks. Or just wrap the crack and below it for a couple of inches with sinew, like someone else suggested. There are better ways to do it than glass. Once you put the glass on, it's kinda like contaminating it. ;)
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yup stay away from that "fg"
once you start adding that to bows,you end up down in the around the campfire section and not the bows section ;)
not to mention adding it to the tips is just a gateway drug,i mean addition
next thing you know you will be making all "fg" bows :o
and then your doomed ;D
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You can heat it some and drop thin Loc-Tite super glue in the crack and clamp it. Then add your horn and cut a groove in the other side. It will do the same thing and you won't have to redo the nocks. Or just wrap the crack and below it for a couple of inches with sinew, like someone else suggested. There are better ways to do it than glass. Once you put the glass on, it's kinda like contaminating it. ;)
i'm defiantly going to glue and clamp it but the reason i wanted to use fiberglass is it is the only practical thing available to me, i know it would be contaminating it a little, but i also have no experience putting horn on in any fashion and dont want to mess it up any more with an experiment. don't worry though, i would never put it on a whole bow and only would use it as a last resort
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anyone know where i could get antler big enough to fit over this tip that wouldn't be expensive?
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My idea of "primitive" is using what you have available for what you need. If FG is all you have for overlays, use it.
Can we see the rest of your bow. Teasing us with just tips is cruel! :D
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My idea of "primitive" is using what you have available for what you need. If FG is all you have for overlays, use it.
Can we see the rest of your bow. Teasing us with just tips is cruel! :D
sure, i'll post them some time tomorrow, the reason i only posted that is i had to use my phone and i don't have a data plan, its a d bow, around 73inches 2 inches wide at handle, 1thick