Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: 1776J on February 04, 2011, 12:45:05 am
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A few shots of the hickory bow I'm working on now and then that I'll be throwing some sinew on....
It's 59" long,... looking to get it to 50-55# @ 27 draw. 1 1/2" at mid limb, and about 5/8" at the knocks (if I remember correctly??)
Yep, that's the kitchen,.. thats where the best light for photos is right now...)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3712.jpg)
(You can see how the right limb seems a little high,...the limbs have a lot more to go)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/HickoryBowAngleCheck.jpg)
(You can see that the right limb's recurve is a little more than the left,.... oh well,...maybe I should re-bend the left limb???.... I'll figure it out)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3714.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3719.jpg)
Of course this is all done in tiny bits of time, in between tending our new little guy,... Jackson! hehe... ;)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/JackGrabSepia.jpg)
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Bow looking good and very cute baby. :)
Pappy
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Cool looking bow, nice profile. Congratulations on the little guy!
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Thanks guys,...
on both accounts! ;)
Yeah I have an osage bow I was workin on before the little guy but it seems really dry so I put it off to the side.???
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2 great profiles goin' on there... ;)
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It's looking really good. I just recently read your thread from this past December and am glad you are sticking with primitive archery and even now working on a really nice bow.
Congrats on the baby boy as well!
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nice bow, and beautiful baby! i forget how small they are!
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Congratulations on the birth of your baby. :) Jawge
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They both look great ;D
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Thanks everybody!!! haha ;D ;D ;D
yeah i'm happy with what I've got with this hickory so far,....
and of course I'm in love with our little guy!! ;)
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Take your time tillering that kid. He's kinda cute, must resemble his mother. O:)
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Congrats on the baby. So you have at least one arrow in your quiver now.
The bow looks like its coming together nicely. You must live in a dry climate to work with hickory, especially that short. Can't wait to see it done with full draw..keep up the good work. Danny
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you may already know this (but doesn't hurt to say I reckon) ...
if you're going for long, stiff levers on that bow you'll only need to sinew back
the working section of the limbs, which shouldn't take much time or sinew.
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Take your time tillering that kid. He's kinda cute, must resemble his mother. O:)
BBWWAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!! :D :D :D :D
I think with the sleep we're NOT getting I may think I was tillering the kid and changing a diaper on the bow!!?? :o :o
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Congrats on the baby. So you have at least one arrow in your quiver now.
The bow looks like its coming together nicely. You must live in a dry climate to work with hickory, especially that short. Can't wait to see it done with full draw..keep up the good work. Danny
Well I'm here in PA,.... not exactly the driest,....
However, I have seen things done successfully with other bowyers and I've been amazed at the workable bows made by Ed Scott at such similar short lengths, and I figured,..
"Why not??!!" So, here we are,.... moving slow but surely.....
Thanks for the kind words everyone...
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you may already know this (but doesn't hurt to say I reckon) ...
if you're going for long, stiff levers on that bow you'll only need to sinew back
the working section of the limbs, which shouldn't take much time or sinew.
Well I'm finding (I think??) that I'll have to thin out the tips a little where they begin to reflex in order to get it bending better and flexing a bit more.
.... I think??
hahahaha
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Take your time tillering that kid. He's kinda cute, must resemble his mother. O:)
BBWWAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!! :D :D :D :D
I think with the sleep we're NOT getting I may think I was tillering the kid and changing a diaper on the bow!!?? :o :o
I know I said it before, but it get's better ;) Diapers on bows...It'd be a comfortable handle wrap...just don't use the ones that should have been tossed in the diaper Genie ;D
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I know I said it before, but it get's better ;) Diapers on bows...It'd be a comfortable handle wrap...just don't use the ones that should have been tossed in the diaper Genie ;D
Hahaha...
YIKES! :o
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Nate,1776J, it appears you two have been up too late into the nite changing nappies. Get off the dang computer and get some sleep!
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The latest with the hickory bow....
Seems to look like we're at #55 @ 22" right now.
I'd like to get it to #50-#55 @ 27" but I'd settle for #45 @ 27"....
What do ya think fellas? ??? ??? ???
Anything look like its hinging,...etc.etc?
The subtle recurves aren't even (one seemed to have pulled out a little)....which looks as if the right limb isn't bending as much?
I'm thinking of reducing the fades a little on each side of the handle. Handle is 4"...fades approx. 1.5" long,...maybe a little more actually.
• UNBRACED •
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3777.jpg)
• BRACED AT 6"•
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3776.jpg)
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Anyone think it would be alright to try and put back some reflex into the tips that I had lost...or at least even up the one limb that lost the majority of its reflex?
I don't want to push it to hard and loose a perfectly good bow....
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Good looking helper you got there! Congrats!
Haven't keep up with your bow build but do what Sonny mentioned.
Sinewing places more belly wood under under compression I understand so you might want to give some thought to trapping the sides of you limbs. This will save you some sinew and glue which will help with bow weight gain/loss as temps/humidity changes occur.
You do need to get your limbs set back before starting your sinew. You can heat treat your limbs into reflex, or heat your limbs and set 'em back. Build your a form or something to hold your limbs in reflex while the sinew dries.
I like to get my bows to just about where you have yours now and place a permanent balance mark at center using an awl or something similar. Once the sinew dries I recheck the balance point, and if shifted I scrap/rasp the sinew to bring the bow back into balance. This ensures the same amount of sinew per limb. This seems to help prevent tillering chances later on.
That's a short version of how I do mine, hope it helps............Art
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you may already know this (but doesn't hurt to say I reckon) ...
if you're going for long, stiff levers on that bow you'll only need to sinew back
the working section of the limbs, which shouldn't take much time or sinew.
Sonny,
thank you for the advice,... somehow I missed it when you first posted it.
I figured to only sinew that area, BUT, I was also thinking of sinewing just under the knock area, to give it some extra support.
I may indeed be "overbuilding" it, but I guess I'm just trying to be proactive?? :)
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Good looking helper you got there! Congrats!
you might want to give some thought to trapping the sides of you limbs. This will save you some sinew and glue which will help with bow weight gain/loss as temps/humidity changes occur.
Thanks for the help... I just need to figure out to what extent I need to shape the bow's side, back and belly in that trapezoidal shape. A little,... a lot,... round out the edges of that trap shape,.. or make it a trapezoid with just the edges "just" barely rounded off???
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Well,...
I decided to mark off 1/8" on either side of the back, and 1/8 on the sides, thus forming a perfect angle as it were.
I took it close to the lines with a fine rash, then sanded it up the rest of the way to make everything uniform.
WOW!,.... what a difference that made!!!!!!! :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D
It's SOOOO cool to see these theories go from paper (or screen as in this case) into physical practice and then see and feel the end result of it.
It is now braced at 6" and pulls #55 @ 27" my full draw.
I only took it to 27 maybe twice as I didn't want to push my luck. ::)
I can't wait to throw the sinew on later this week!!!!
....not to mention,... I can't wait to take down a doe or buck this coming season!!! Whoohoo! ;D ;D ;D
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Here is the bow at a full draw of 27" (tried to get a decent photo)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3802.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3801.jpg)
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Something I noticed that was a little frustrating...
In Bowyer's Bible #4,... it talks of Trapping.
First it lays out the positives, and it sounds great.
Then lays out negatives and makes you wonder, "Hell, did I just do a safe thing????"...mentioning how it can be unsafe for the bow.
Lastly, in the photo illustration on the next page, it suddenly says it can be "safer" to trap a bow????
What the??!!??
??? ???
I'm stumped.
I have a slightly crowned belly on the bow AND I just trapped it about 1/8" on either side of the back of the bow.
Of course I'm going to sinew the back so this should compensate for any "unsafe" things going on with the trapping I did.... right?
Hmmm,..... :-\
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Looks like to me most of the bending is going on a few inches out of the fads. Is the 3rd picture back the un strung profile ?
Pappy
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Looks like to me most of the bending is going on a few inches out of the fads. Is the 3rd picture back the un strung profile ?
Pappy
Pappy, here's the unstrung Profile.... it's 59" long
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3777.jpg)
Yeah I couldn't help but notice that as well.
The tips are a little long, (similar to the Holmegaard bow design with still long tips) however, it seemed as though no matter what I did while tillering, the majority of the bend kept coming in at those points??
Would the stiff ends have something to do with that?
I know they are a little long,... should I thin out the tip areas a little more where they start to turn up into their slight reflex and a little past that making that area flex a little more???
I'm figuring that if its pulling at #50 @ 27" now, then even if I have to take off some more to get it bending better, after I add the sinew it should bring the poundage back up afterword. Right?
Here's another shot of the full draw, just turned....Looks like the left side (top limb) has a stiff area right past the mid limb area. Would you agree?
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/HockoryBow27Draw2.jpg)
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Jason, when you go with the reflexed or recurves tips you add extra strain inner limbs. You have to preplan for that. A semi-pryamidal limb design or greater belly taper would have accomplished this IMO.
Your drawn profile reflects a more pyramid limb design (circular) where as your rectangular limb design should show an elliptical shape. By doing some side tapering from fades to mid-limb will allow more bending mid-limb.
For now, maintain your slightly crowned belly. Because as your sinew dries, it's shrinking properties will cup a flat belly. That will cost you poundage if you have to flattening the belly back out.
That's a good illustration of trapping in TBB#4 and a good guide to shoot for. For a 1 3/4" wide limb I'll trap in 1/4" on each side leaving me with a 1 1/4" back to sinew. Saves a lot of sinew and reduces quite a bit of physical weight also.
A naturally crowned back such as a small stave will produce the same effects as trapping a board.
As Baker mentioned, trapping becomes unsafe when MC of the bow drops. Bow becomes stiffer and adds extra strain to the back of the bow. That's where sinewing will help......Art
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how long are your non-bending tips. from the initial pics it looks your bow might have a little reflex/deflex going on. but it might be my eyes being a little foggy this morning. abd has build along for a holmegaard bow you should check it out becuase he goes over how to tiller a bow, like yours, it might be helpful. In my opinion your tiller for a holmegaard/mollegabet style bow is not that far off. But I am not an expert and this just my opinion. I like the look of your bow.
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That bow is following the string horribly... IMO you need more working limb than what you have going there, especially with hickory. Are you sure the wood is absolutely dry? I know the outer limbs are supposed to be stiff with this design but I'd still get them bending more out towards those levers.
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Jason, when you go with the reflexed or recurves tips you add extra strain inner limbs. You have to preplan for that. A semi-pryamidal limb design or greater belly taper would have accomplished this IMO.
Something much more than this shape then?....
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3719.jpg)
Your drawn profile reflects a more pyramid limb design (circular) where as your rectangular limb design should show an elliptical shape. By doing some side tapering from fades to mid-limb will allow more bending mid-limb.
So, you're saying I should go ahead and taper the sides more then to get a more pyramidal limb design then? Just want to make sure before I make any move on it.
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how long are your non-bending tips. from the initial pics it looks your bow might have a little reflex/deflex going on. but it might be my eyes being a little foggy this morning. abd has build along for a holmegaard bow you should check it out becuase he goes over how to tiller a bow, like yours, it might be helpful. In my opinion your tiller for a holmegaard/mollegabet style bow is not that far off. But I am not an expert and this just my opinion. I like the look of your bow.
Non-bending tip length is approx. 8.5"
Iniitially, yes, it did have some reflex/deflex,.... the reflex in the tips has pulled out quite a bit from where it started out at.
I'll see if I can find that topic you speak of on the holmegaard/mollegabet bow....
thank you.
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That bow is following the string horribly... IMO you need more working limb than what you have going there, especially with hickory. Are you sure the wood is absolutely dry? I know the outer limbs are supposed to be stiff with this design but I'd still get them bending more out towards those levers.
It's certainly dry as my house has been very dry lately with the cold weather outside and the heat being on so much.
As far as getting the tips to bend more, that was actually one of my questions on an earlier post I made (about three posts ago I think?) No one had addressed it as of yet.
"I know they are a little long,... should I thin out the tip areas a little more where they start to turn up into their slight reflex and a little past that, making that area flex a little more???"
I was thinking along those lines to simply take the tips at where they are and shorten the non-bending area up thus continuing the thickness of the belly from approx. mid-limb
outward towards each tip, over the bend of where it's reflexed, leaving more like 4-5" of non-bending tip instead?
What do we think fellas?
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Jason, once you get more bending mid-limb then those tips of your won't be/look so non-bending. Right now the outer half of your limbs looks so long is because the limbs' bending radius is too short for your rectangular limb design.
Looking at the front profile of your bow that you just put up shows that you do need to get the middle of your limbs working more. You can apply a great belly taper from fade to mid-limb make this happen. Probably any side tapering at this point will result in unmatched front/braced profile (elliptical tiller for rectangular limb shape/circular tiller for pyramid limb shape).
You can remove a lot of that set by heat treating your limbs into reflex. Then sinew it's back to help hold reflexed profile........Art
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Jason, once you get more bending mid-limb then those tips of your won't be/look so non-bending. Right now the outer half of your limbs looks so long is because the limbs' bending radius is too short for your rectangular limb design.
Looking at the front profile of your bow that you just put up shows that you do need to get the middle of your limbs working more. You can apply a great belly taper from fade to mid-limb make this happen. Probably any side tapering at this point will result in unmatched front/braced profile (elliptical tiller for rectangular limb shape/circular tiller for pyramid limb shape).
You can remove a lot of that set by heat treating your limbs into reflex. Then sinew it's back to help hold reflexed profile........Art
Ok,...
I'm going to tackle it now then.
I'll start tapering it out to the tip from the belly so I can get that to bend more.
I'll reduce the "nonbending" tips from the 8.5" length to approx 4-5" of nonbending tip.
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After some more tillering this evening....working out the tips a bit so they'll give some.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3812.jpg)
Really looks like top limb just isn't bending correctly! Near hinging!! ugh!!
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Just got down to re-bending the tips this evening. So far so good.
I'm leaving just over 4" of stiff limb, (about 4"-4 1/8").
We'll see how this works out after they cool off and set themselves into place? :) :) :)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3814.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3815.jpg)
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After the evening's tip bending....
Got some reflex back into the ends.
Whatcha think fellas?.... move to sinewing the back now so I don't end up with the flex getting pulled out?
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3818.jpg)
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Looking good coming along very nicely. 8)
Thanks Leroy
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Hmmm,...
Well, this is odd,...
I decided to string the bow to see how things have set up thus far after the sinew and it appears that the top limb now bends much more which throws the tiller off by about 3/4" of an inch!
I'll post photos.
I'm guessing the remedy will simply be,...
re-tiller the stiffer limb?
This is what I'm talkin about....(see string in relation to limbs. String runs uphill from right to left as the left limb in photo is lower in photo.)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP3929.jpg)
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How long has it bend since you sinewed your bow?
If your tiller was fine before sinewing then it stands to reason you applied more sinew to one limb over the other. Tiller (file/scrap/sand) the sinew on the one limb and not the bow itself.
But first, stretch your bow a bit just to make sure tiller has really changed. Apply more pressure to the stiffer limb to work it a bit.........Art
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It's only been, what?.... four days I think since I applied the sinew???
As to your recommendations..... I'll go the suggested route....
Much appreciated. ;)
I know it seemed to take on a similar look "before" I applied sinew but not as bad as what I'm seeing now.
Was thinking it was just me! ??? I know that shorter limb was certainly much stiffer throughout the bow build, so it stands to reason that along with the wood being stiffer
in that limb, the sinew just exaggerated that fact.
Having said that, I'll hit the sinew little by little and see where that takes me.
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I hit the sinew on that limb with sanding,....and with pretty much no positive outcome by doing so. I just kept working it little by little.
No changes though.
The limb did not bend anymore than before.
Upon examining the limbs, I decided that the one simply not bending was just to thick in comparison
to the other.
I thinned that stiff limb out. It bends very nicenow, but now the other limb does not bend as much.... :o
One has a nice curve, the other doesn't!!
However!!.... the funny thing is, that at least NOW that string runs parallel from tip to tip unlike before!!??
Sooooo......
I'm figuring, back to the rasp, sand paper and scraper on the limb not bending so well.
I now have this hickory bow and an osage recurve I'm working on...
"trying" to work on that is!...haha
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Ok fellas,.....
after much tillering, I need a tillering check from you fellas.....
I "think" I'm either just about there or??...... maybe "done?"
It's getting late,.. it's been a long day and who knows....maybe I'm just goin' nuts thinking its A-Ok??
(Sorry about the photos being a little "off" especially when turned on its side,...)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMAG0073.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMAG00732.jpg)
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I'd say she's finished but for a hand grip. Going to toss some leather in the grip area.
Nothing special by far, just wanted a good reliable shooter. Was going to paint the back,.... think I'll leave her as-is.
I'll be trying this one out soon in the field this year.
Sinew backed hickory,...
59" long...
#47 @ 27" (#50-51 if cold)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4039.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4040.jpg)
*(Don't mind the string,...just an old one I had for stringin' the bow to get brace height)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4042.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4044.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/coaltowncowboy/pipe/IMGP4043.jpg)
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good job on the bow.
How much set did you end up with?
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good job on the bow.
How much set did you end up with?
Thanks.
I think it was about 1 1/2" if I'm correct....maybe a tad more.
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Looks good from here, enjoy shooting it ! Nice job :)
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Looking great. Very nice lines. Congratulations on the little one. Seems like yesterday when My daughter was that small,,,,,,,,,,,now she's 20 ::) Don't blink
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looks great, probably better than i can do
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yeah I'm going to do another hickory at some point but I want to try and make a reflex/reflex bow,.... similar to an Ed Scott bow I saw that I really liked. Probably 2" wide at the handle fades?
I just have to figure the best way to bend it at the handle area....
every time I think of reflexing the handle I have visions of broken staves!! :o
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Very nice, 1776J! Fine bow. I like it. I can remember when my daughters were that young. one is married now and my other one s engaged. These are good times. I bet your child will soon have her own little bow. :) Jawge
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Good lookin profile there. Congratlations on the baby too.
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I test shot it a few times and it shoots nice and quick.
However, I really need to either narrow up the handle or cut a shelf into it,....there's just way to much angle on the arrow coming off the handle with what I have now.
...so it's "almost" there!! hahaha ::)
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Well done! 8)
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Well done! 8)
Thanks Pat,..
yeah like I said,... I'll either narrow up the handle or cut a shelf into it.
Just curious,.... if I narrowed up the handle,... I'm guessing that would affect the draw weight of the bow correct??
Just thinking a bit before I start into it.
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As long as the handle isn't bending removing wood from the handle area won't affect tiller. I usually go with about 1" wide at the arrow pass on the bulbous handles I use.
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As long as the handle isn't bending removing wood from the handle area won't affect tiller. I usually go with about 1" wide at the arrow pass on the bulbous handles I use.
it seems to bend ever so little,....I noticed that right away when I started tillering it. It's the same now, ( I just strung it and held the handle fast in my palm, pulled a few times.
It's not terribly noticeable though, so who knows....maybe its the fades giving that I feel just starting to go into the handle area as the handle is a wee bit under 4" long.
Think I'm safe to have a go at it, (cut a shelf in or narrow it up more, it's currently at 1 1/4" wide)... or should I just err on the side of caution and leave it as is?
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Looking shape Jason! Hey, I cut shelves in many of mine. For what I'm seeing with your bow you can easily cut a shelf in. As long as you have a handle depth of 1 1/2" X 1 1/4" width (even 1") you can safely cut to within 3/8" of center. That's equivalent to shooting around a 3/4" handle vs your now 1 1/4" handle. Big big advantage when it comes time to match up some arrows.........Art
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Looking shape Jason! Hey, I cut shelves in many of mine. For what I'm seeing with your bow you can easily cut a shelf in. As long as you have a handle depth of 1 1/2" X 1 1/4" width (even 1") you can safely cut to within 3/8" of center. That's equivalent to shooting around a 3/4" handle vs your now 1 1/4" handle. Big big advantage when it comes time to match up some arrows.........Art
Sounds like a plan Art! ;)
The handle is 1 1/2" deep, by 1 1/4" wide, so that idea of cutting a knock shelf into the side of it should work out just fine!
Great,...
Thanks fellas!!