Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: tradrick on May 13, 2007, 05:58:13 pm
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Hey folks,I'm new to the forum and to primitive equipment.I've shot recurves and longbows for about 5 years now and thought I'd play around with some real old school tackle.I attended Pappy's shoot at Twin Oaks,met some great folks and tillered my first bow.I got my osage stave from Gary Davis who had done most of the work and just gave me a crash cource in tillering.Anyhow,I just got done putting about 3 coats of truoil on it,a piece of cermic rounded off for a shelf(fake bear claw)and a piece of leather stitched on for a grip.Oh and a piece of leather glued on for a strike plate.Here's the stats:53#@28'',661/2''strung,673/4''unstrung.And here's my problem.Brace height from back belly of grip is 31/2'',from back of the bow its 51/8''.I came here for advice because I'm not sure if these lower brace heights are the norm for primitive gear or not.I guess I'm used to laminated bows were the BH is 71/2 to 81/2''.Of cource I know I can twist the string up and get it a little better but I thought I would ask what the norm is.The string is wearing my wrist out and I figured it is BH related.I tried other hand placement with no change.Also what arrow recommendations.Would 50/55 POC's with 125 gr tip be a good start or will I need a weaker spine do to the low BH were it will recover from archers paradox quicker.Sorry so long.Any help would be appreciated.tradrick
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Rick, I'm glad you found us. Pretty darn addicting isn't it. I will address your questions, but first let me say we like pictures. Lets see some pictures of the bow.
I like a brace height at around 6 1/2"- 7 1/4" from the handle to the string. I don't really care were it is in reference to the back of the bow. Ill bet it slaps your wrist. It would rest on my wrist at that low of a brace. What I usually do is place the bottom of my fist on the bow with my thumb sticking up toward the string. The string at brace should be about the top of your thumb nail. I would probably start around 40-45# of spine. If you tell us what length the finished arrow is we can give you a better idea. Justin
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What Justin Said! ;) My fistmele(fist on handle with thumb up) is about 5 1/2". That's where I usually brace my bows. Any lower the string slaps my wrist. Also my feathers clear the bow at my fistmele. Pat
ps We want pics! ;)
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I use a braceheight that feels right. It depends on the bow. the fistmale I rarely use (in one bow only) all others have a smaller braceheight. I use shortbows between 44" and 52" and my braceheight is a little over my fist (so that my fist fits in between the bow and the string.) and no the string does not slap my wrist.
A good tip also to save the fletching is that one SHOULD use a braceheight as high that the feathers don't touch the bow when not drawn. I for one do not use such braceheights. :D
so my tip would be, that use a braceheight that feels good.
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I'm like Pat, usually brace at a fist with thumb stuck out from the belly, about 5 1/2-6". I would do like Justin said and start with arrows spined 5-10 lbs. below your draw weight.
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I like a 6" brace height and most my bows are close to center shot so I usually use a spine about equal to my draw wegiht. Steve
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See Selfbow Care and Tuning on my site. Jawge
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Same as Pat and Hillbilly 5 1/2 to 6 is about normal.And about 5 to 10 under the draw weight
depending on how center shot I have been able to get it for my arrow spine.Glad you had a good time at the shoot and found this site,like justin said we like pictures,we don't read to well you know. ;D
Pappy
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I brace as low as possible without the string slapping me. This is usually about 5". If flight shooting I will brace the bow lower
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Thanks for the overwhelming responces.Last night after posting I put about 15 or 20 twist in the string and that ended the string slap.Arrow cast and drawing was much smoother as well.As said before the bow is 53#@28''.My usal draw is 28''.However,with this type of bow I guess I'm a little nervous on it breaking so I short draw it a little.About 27'' I'm guessing.As far as arrow length I would like them to be no shorter than 29''with 125gr tips.I have some 1916's that I shot through it to see how they would fly and they did decent with 200gr tips.But I need woodies for the archery shoots and well the 2 just go together right.I have a digital camera if someone can instruct me on how to post pictures.Pappy and GregB congrats on your bow of the month.It was a pleasure meeting you both and I look foward to next year.Pappy you have a beutiful farm and set-up that I am extremley jealous of.Thanks again tradrick
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Don't worry about the bow breaking. Many of us draw to 30" or more. Just shoot it and enjoy. And just to make a correction, my brace is 5 1/2 - 6 1/4. Justin
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I like 5 1/2" to 6" measured from the back. It's easier on the bow, and makes for alonger powerstroke.
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i cover my fletching which is 5 in fletch..according to the books ,,lower the better or on the lower side..
jpw
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I'm shooting a 68" osage bow, and I use the fistmele for measuring brace height. This works out to 6" (15cm), which is perfect for keeping my fletchings off the bow. As for the wrist slap, get an arm guard. At 15cm brace height the string still slaps my arm, so I always shoot with a good arm guard.
As far as arrow spine is concerned, it is usually a good idea to go with something a little under your draw weight when matching arrows toa self bow. Also, for every inch you cut your arrows above or below 28" you need to subtract or add 5# spine respectively. To be perfectly honest, I have never spined my arrow shafts. I make my arrows from Red Osier shoots, so I just experimented until I found what worked with my bow, then I made everything else to match that. With a little practice, it isn't hard to do. Besides, a spine tester is an unnecessary expense, unless you make your own.
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From belly of bow to string is 5 -5 1/4". Measure from base of thumb to end of forefinger. Fletch is 6-7" long. Dont care ifn it touches bow or hand. Ya gonna shoot fast an animal is probably gonna hear string twang, so who cares ifn he or she hears feather dragiin' too. My 2 cents...........................bob
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5 1/2" is pretty much standard for all my bows, little tweeking now and again, but not by much
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I like anywhere between 4.5" to 5.75" depending on length of bow and side profile unbraced.
As for arrow spine, I would start 10 lbs. under the draw weight at my draw length, leave em long and cut them back slowly till they shoot good with a 125 grn head. then if I'm planing to use a heavier hunting point I check them for flight with those and tweek brace height and nock point to try and get it right from there.
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Ok...Bob brought up something that I'm curious about. Which is the "standard" or is the most accepted way to measure brace height? Thumb extended fist from belly side of bow? or from the back of the bow?
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The way I measure brace height is with my fistmele, heal of my fist on the belly(at the handle) with my thumb extended up. The actual brace height is measured from the string to the back of the bow, at the handle. My fistmele is just my indicator of where brace should be and not the actual measured brace height. ??? ::) ;D Pat
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The fist just happens to be a tool you usually have with you, right Pat. ;D I put my hand on the belly of the handle. I don't actually measure to the top of my thumb. I go to the last joint of my thumb or just past. I determined this by finding a brace height I liked without measuring. Then measuring it with my fist. I just try to reproduce the same height, using my hand as a guide. Justin
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ok so the measurement is taken from the back of the bow and not the belly side at the base of the fist.....
If thats the case I've been doing it wrong the whole time.......cause that add's at least an inch or two to the measurement.
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That may be the "traditional" way to do it. That don't mean your way is wrong. Like I said, I found a brace height that I like and found a way to consistently reproduce it. If you are happy with the low brace height you have don't change it. Lower brace means more of the energy from the bow is put into the arrow. Besides, if I use my fist on the back of the bow, it may be the same as someone else using their fist on the belly. It is more important to twist the string and find the height you need than to do it like any tradition says. It also may need to be adjusted for different bows. Justin
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As a matter of fact jpitts, I belive if there has to be a standard way to mesure brace should be from the back of the bow, nowadays there's up to 1 1/2" difference with all the styles of handles, this current method was carryed over from "Hunting with the bow and arrow", therefore the ELB wich had no handle
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I use my fistmele also...if you'll bring the bow by my house, I'll be happy to set it for you! ;D
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The main thing I pay attention to is that my 5" feathers clear the handle when I nock up. Some bows like higher brace heights a well, Bow with a lot of deflex as you might see in recurves or some r/d bow seem to handle better with higher brace heights of 6' or better sometimes. Steve
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Thanks for the offer GregB, I think I'll do like I've always done. I'll bring it up till my feathers barely clear the shelf ;D
Thanks Northshore....I can see them using the back for measurement in Merry Olde England...
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Gosh ... I'm kinda' LARGE , my fistmele is 7" But I'm shooting 66"-72' longbows of hickory backed red cedar...with a 29-30" DRAW LENGTH... Made 64 bows now ,all kinds , mostly selfbows... 23 broke , about 5 shoot really well, the rest are OK , learned alot , especially how a too low brace height leaves a nasty ,painfull bruises on your inner forearm ... ;D If the bow is the correct length for your draw, and tillered correctly , it should survive a comfortable brace height...and shoot better /more accurately to boot .
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GPW my fistmele is about 7" also. That is why I mentioned going to the last joint in my thumb, not the end. ;D Justin
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No reason to get too specific , we find every bow has it's own favorite brace height, when it shoots the best ... experiment, besides it's always FUN to shoot alot of arrows anyway ... if it breaks , it ain't worth having ... certainly not in the woods...