Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Wasatchhawk on May 10, 2007, 01:35:01 am
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Yesterday I decided to remove the sapwood off the mulberry staves that I split out. What a chore! it was interesting to see the water squeeze out as I used the draw knife.
I don't know why I didn't notice before but this 74 inch stave has a dogleg in the last 14 inches of about 3" If I were to use this piece how would I lay out the pattern? following the grain I assume, then roughing it out and then heating and bending?
I decided to go as far as I can before meeting Dan. That way I'll have a bunch of questions for him and possibly various staves in different states of development so he can show me the whole process.
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Wasa, I hope you sealed the back.Especially as wet as it is. If not, do so ASAP or it will check. After sealing, take her down to almost bow size, even to about 4" of floor tiller and let her rest for a month or so and see how dry she is. You could clamp her to a form and into a hot box for quicker results. Pat
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Yep I sealed it right after cutting and then after removing the sapwood. Both ends and back. But how do I layout the pattern with the dogleg in it?
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Follow the grain lines down the back. Leave the tips full width all the way out and shape when dry. Just reduce the thickness. Can you take and post pics. They would help. Pat
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I have found that it sometimes helps in removing doglegs to follow the grain when laying out the bow, then cut out the back profile, leaving it thicker than wide, and take the crook out with heat then. After the thickness is reduced so that the limb is wider than it is thick, it hard to get side-to-side bends out.
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I was taught to draw a line down the center of the crown of the stave, following the little tick marks of the grain. Then you measure on either side of this line to lay out the bow. Then you straighten it with heat and you have a bow with no grain running off the sides of the limbs.
Hillbilly, that is an interesting observation about leaving a stave as thick as it is wide when heatbending to remove a dogleg. I never heard of that but it makes sense. Probably makes it less likely to break or twist when you're cranking it straight.
What I'd probably do, is make a 60" bow out of that stave.
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Pictures?
Well an interesting thing happened to my camera. Apparently Taking them afield when its raining is not a good Idea. But the first one survived hundreds of rainstorms but not the fall off the roller coaster. The second one didn't even last one trip through the washer, can you believe that?
I just learned this week that even though the first one looks and acts dead, if you squeeze it just right It will take pictures 50% of the time. now I just need to find my old cables to hook to the computer and I'llsend some of those pictures.
Great advice to follow the grain and rough it out keeping it thicker than wide. I'll try that.
Randy
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So take 2 of each angle and post 50%. ;D Justin
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Heres my first pile of shavings. Turns out the stave is dog legged. Turns out my busted camera only take a picture 20% of the time. I only got two of the 10 shots I took.
One other thing I noticed is the heart wood has a couple of ridges that run the length of the stave. Do I have to scrape the sapwood off right down to the heart wood in the grooves? should I try to lay out the pattern avoiding the grooves?
I found Pat's explaination of measuring from each side and dividing by two to find the center since the splits generally follow the grain.
Any advice on scraping down to the first heartwood ring since there are grooves in it?
Randy
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To tell the truth, I like some character in my bows, I would keep the dogleg (and I don't like waiting for it to dry from steam bending :D).
Sean
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Whew! Excellent advice. Do I wish I had this site when I started. Jawge
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I think I would start it like it is. ;) After you get it to brace height, you may want(or need) to bring that tip around so the string track good with a little heat bending. Pat
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This has become a build along with photos.
I shaped out the stave today. I used a pattern from Jawge's website. I'm sure I misunderstood and may have problems with this design. It was interesting to see the grain on the back side. I used Pat's advise to measure from either side to find the middle. On the back there was one dark grain that was dead center and ran dead center the full length of the stave, except a curve near the knot on the fade out.
Here are some photos, both ends are doglegged from drying.
The Handle area is actually quite narrow because of the way the stave split. There is also a pinknot mid-limb.
There is also a tiny twist in the stave. I'm sure all of you who have years of experience would be able to see these things before even starting work on it.
Tomorrow I will work on straightening it a bit.
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You should use heat to bring the tips in line. Both are going the same way and it would be a bear to brace that way. ;D Pat
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That's what I plan to do next, I'll steam them and then clamp them to bring them around, one at a time. How much past center do you think I'll need to pull?
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If it is a dry stave, seal the back before you steam it or it might check when it dries again. Shellac works well to seal when steam is used. I buy Bullseye spray shellac at most paint and hardware store. Pat
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Make the handle. Use dry heat on the handle to get the tips in the line with center point. The rest does not have to be in line.
You can also correct some string that is not centered.
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Wasatchhawk-Like Tom Sawyer said follow the vertical grain or crown when laying out the bow. Also, I leave the handle full width and nocks wide-a good inch until at least stringing for the first time. That way you can shape the handle accordingly to track the string and you can cut one side of the nocks further to track the string on the handle. If all that fails than I heat to track the string. If you run a string from tip to tip where does it fall in the handle area? Jawge
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It's steaming as I type.
This mulberry stave still has some drying to do, I guess. Every day it changes shape. When I took the pictures the other day the tips would have had the string about 3.5 inches to the right. Today it was 3/4 inch to the right, with a twist correcting some of it.
I set up ropes and blocks to take care of the dogleg and the twist at the same time so I don't end up restoring one bend each time I fix the other.
Do you think 30-45 minutes of steaming should be enough?
Randy
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Didn't you just cut this stave a couple of weeks ago. It will need at least 2-3 months to dry. As green as it is you can probably just clamp it to a form and let it dry. It will probably hold its clamped shape. As a general rule for steaming, it is about 15 minutes for each 1/4" of thickness. If it is still wet it will need clamped to a form until it is dry even if you straighten it now. Justin
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Yeh I cut it 3 weeks ago and roughed it out but left the thickness. Since it has been so hot and dry here, and since it is so light weight now, I thought it was pretty much dry.
The steaming and cinching down worked for the bends, but the twist didn't work out and I think I have slightly more twist than I started with. I was going to try using dry heat tonight but, I can't find my heat gun.
I'd post more pictures but I can't find my camera batteries tonight.
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I doubt its is all the way dry. Justin
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Take it down to floor tiller stage before trying ti remove the twist. If you use the heat gun be sure the back is sealed very well first. Pat
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I visited every hardware store around to find exactly the same Spray Shellac that you use. (Found some) I sealed it before steaming.
I went to Harbor Freight tonight, they had 6 inch C clamps on sale for $2 ea. I'm sure justin was right This stick needs to be clamped to a form to prevent it from snaking all over.
I'm going to take it to Dan's house Saturday. Not sure if we are going to work on bows or not. He invited me to go shooting on some guys new range in Price. Said it would be a "once in a lifetime experience" sounds kind of intriguing. I will have my boards ready though. I have one edge grain Hickory which is probably marginabley workable. I also found a perfect piece of Red Oak at Home Depot. Perfectly plainsawn from the outside of a huge tree so the grain on the end is almost parallel with the flat top and Bottom sides. The Grain on top and bottom is parallel fromone end to the other. I'm excited for Saturday.
Randy