Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Jesse on December 28, 2010, 12:23:33 pm
-
Hope I dont get in trouble for posting this :) I'll take my chances :o O:)
Dana sent this to me in an Email .
As a result of my recent near fatal experience I’ve come to realize the only important thing in life is family and friends
And how you are remembered by the same! I started a thread last year about my problem with alcohol unfortunately
I didn’t quit drinking at that time but thought I could control it, in other words I lied to myself and all of you for this I apologize.
No doubt my drinking was the leading cause of my being banned from the forum, as most of you know when under the influence of alcohol
people say and do things they normally wouldn’t. I would like to apologize to any and all that I have wronged or offended please forgive me
as I was not myself. Many of you have met me and I have made many friends through PA and our shared interests. I hope that forgiveness for
my actions can be found in your hearts my friends and please know that I truly miss ya all!
It’s a new year and with it comes the hope of being reunited with all of you.
Once more let me offer my sincerest apologies to all of you and most especially to the admins and moderators.
Sincerely Dana Montgomery aka The Damn Yooper
-
No problem Jesse!
I'm glad to see Dana is trying to get his life back and truely hope he does. Unfortunately it is totally up to him. I'm sure if any of us could help him we would but at this point the ball is in his court.
Best wishes to you Dana. We miss having you around but for me I can't handle the "other" you. I have lost friends(death) and abandoned friends with this same malady. It saddened me to do so but I've also seen good, caring people get sucked in and not come out unscaved.
-
I for one never saw that side of him, but even so, Dana is a great guy and one of the most colorful members of PA. His work is exceptional too, and he is incredibly generous – I did a trade with him and he went way above and beyond what we had agreed to. He also mailed me a beautiful maple stave once out of nowhere, which was very cool and I won’t ever forget that.
Can admin reinstate Dana? I hope so.
Moderators, any way to get my email address to him, since he can’t access my profile? If so, I’d appreciate that.
Dana, I hope you are doing well, man. Someone close to me is right now dealing with the same issues, and I’ve gained a lot of wisdom from when you were posting on that subject.
Dane
-
You are right on all points Dane. If you want to get in touch with him, he is on Facebook ;)
-
Evil Facebook!
Thanks, Jeff, I will do that. Even if I just don't use it very well still.
Dane
-
No problem Jesse!
I'm glad to see Dana is trying to get his life back and truly hope he does. Unfortunately it is totally up to him. I'm sure if any of us could help him we would but at this point the ball is in his court.
Best wishes to you Dana. We miss having you around but for me I can't handle the "other" you. I have lost friends(death) and abandoned friends with this same malady. It saddened me to do so but I've also seen good, caring people get sucked in and not come out unscaved.
Jesse, I agree totally with Pat and I think most mod/adm. feel the same way about Dana, We all like him and the contributions that he has made to the board over the years. Unfortunately sometimes (Due to influences) people make mistakes and break the rules. Please understand that the rules are for the good of the forum and protection of members as a whole. Certainly people change and I have seen this often over the years while working with Juvenal delinquents.
However, when you start trying to make exceptions to a rule, then you enter a realm of (character judgement) from one individual to another. That can become a very slippery slope of favoritism. I too have seen many people get there life turned around, and yet others chose to jump off cliffs. (Figurative)
We have set guidelines that first worn, then temp suspension, then being banned. These guidelines are in place to guard against any (personal judgements) and unfortunately if (exceptions) are made, then that is exactly what is taking place. I hope that helps to understand the complications of scenarios like this.
I, as well as many others know Dana can be a great guy and I'm glad to see him making such great changes for his own well being. I do believe Dana is sincere and I don't know if the ban from the board is permanent or for a set time period, but I'm sure that it will be looked into.
-
Hope he makes it ! Even thou i have never meet Dana i think of him as a friend, i hope he can make it this time :)
-
I have never met Dana, and I only remember seeing his name on here and really nothing of substance that he had posted. I, too, have worked with people going thru different "programs". Sounds like Dana is in the midst of one of the tougher parts of a 12 step run. Most bail before they have to go thru the step where they make the list, and then go apologize to everyone on the list.
It's humiliating. And it's meant to be humiliating. If it wasn't, it wouldn't help. No one wants to be humiliated, but that's because we forget the root of that word is the same root for the word HUMBLE. Sounds like Dana is coming to grips with the arrogance of thinking he was tougher than the bottle.
Whether he is readmitted to this forum or not means little to me, I guess I have nothing invested, no dog in this fight. But it looks to me like he's making strides where it counts, his personal life. And for that I wish him nothing but continued recovery and success.
-
I hope that the length of the ban is checked into. I don't know the exact date of the ban, but it has been a long time. Considering the very near death experience he had, along with the major change in life for him, he would be an asset to the forum once again. Even better now that he would be speaking with a clear mind.
-
we all just need to pray for him to get better, with god on your side it is a win win. best to him in his journey.
-
On my to-do list for the last days of the year would have been contacting admins asking under what circumstances Dana could be restated to the board, so I'm glad to see this thread!
Dana and I have a little communication going on (evil) facebook, and though he and I had several arguments in the past here on PA I would be happy to see him back on.
Let's put it that way: if the board was a bow stave, Dana for sure added 'some character' to it... ;D ;D ;D
-
I have never met the 'Yooper. I missed the bad part and so am uninformed of his sins toward the board. I did enjoy his post and seeing the quality of the work he showed us. I have had people close to me suffer addictions and so am in sympathy with his current state. I wish Dana strength for this path. (I will include him in my prayers for such) He certainly is one of us. ' Frank
-
i consider the yooper a friend also like many here do
even though i have never met him
i am sorry he suffers with his demons,but we all have one or two
but i have to agree with Keenan
if they make acceptions to their rules for one person and then not another
then that is passing judgment on ones character
so to let one banned person back on and not another,well that just wouldnt be fare to them(the banned persons) in the big picture
not that i wouldnt like to see his work on here again
but rules are made and implemented for good reasons
no hard feelings Dana
just trying to see the big picture is all
-
None of us regular members of this site know if one or more former banned members have been reevaluated for reenstatement of posting priveleges, Sailordad, so it may not be a matter of different rules for different people. I dont know if there is a banned for life rule, either. If there is, does that even apply to Dana?
As I said to someone else recently, America to me is a place for second chances and starting over. I hope Dana is given a fresh start. If things dont work out, then they dont work out, but give him a chance. He can offer this place a lot, as he has in the past.
Dane
-
Dane, I take offense to the suggestion that we offer preferential treatment. The moderators and administrators (all volunteers) on this site do have some input on the rules, but the owners and paid staff of the magazine make the final decision. We the mods and admins then enforce the rules as evenly and fairly as we can. When there is a question, we ask the owners who make the final decision.
Here are the rules pertaining to this as posted in 2008. I think they are clear but if you need further clarification let me know. I am posting the rules here, if you want to see the original post follow this link. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,9065.0.html
1: The thread or post is removed and you get a warning.
2: If you continue with your attacks you will be banned from this site for a predetermined amount of time after which you can come back or not, your choice.
3: If you still continue then the ban will be permanent.
If I count correct that is 3 chances. Now I understand that there is some confusion on the Dana issue because PA chooses not to tell the entire board about other members problems. If Dana chooses to, and he has, that is his business. Just so we understand, Dana and I exchange emails beside our contact on Facebook. I think Dana is a good guy who happens to have demons just like most of us. He did however violate Primitive Archers rules for participation on this forum and PA followed the rules above and ended his participation here.
-
I would have a suggestion:
Dana jumped on me badly once or twice, can very well imagine it happend to others, and maybe even worse. Honestly I thought of him being an a..h... sometimes. Just the same way you think of good friends being a..h.... sometimes. Never thought of him being a bad person.
Justin I'm sure it's been handled correctly, and if the decision is he can't come back, than that's accepted no problem.
BUT...
PA is not something abstract but an on-line community of people sharing their knowledge. So, if a majority of these people agrees on having Dana restated, it should be as correct as following the hard and cold rule.
If those who had problems with Dana would speak up (maybe even anonymously to the admins via PM), I'm sure it would form a picture.
BTW. I believe that path could eventually be travelled by whoever was banned. (I'm sure it won't happen often, cause it takes cochones to do so)
PS: And yes, forgiveness is plenty healthy and works both directions!
-
Relax, Justin. I had not seen the banning guidelines, or simply forgot if I had read them (2 years is a bit of time, and it has been a long time since I read any threads about rules of conduct), nor do I know what adjudication process is used for suspention and revocation of posting priveledges. I wasn't saying nor accusing that some get preferential treatment at the whim of a moderator or administrator or PA management, as you will realize if you re-read what I posted.
I'm done with this topic, and was clear about my own feelings on this matter. I do hope that there is a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law, however. Do whatever you guys think is best. Happy New Year.
Dane
-
Posted by: Scott D " I don't know Dana personally, but it is obvious that this place is important to him and that he's sorry for his actions. He seems to care about this place and people realize that.. which is why other members are voicing an opinion to see him reinstated. What's the worst thing that could happen? Maybe he'd get drunk and type some things that he shouldn't? It's only as big of a deal as we choose to make it. If he goes back to his old ways, he can be re suspended easy enough. In my opinion, it's good to offer forgiveness to someone who is sincerely sorry and sincerely trying to make amends for their actions.....even if they've had multiple chances already.....if the rules won't allow for that...... then maybe the rules could be adjusted to allow for human judgment in banning. This is just my honest opinion, I'm not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers. "
I couldn't have said it better, matter of fact, this is what I've been wanting to say for the last two days but couldn't put it into words. The way I see it, Dana is a different person now. He has hit rock bottom and has started over. I feel like the new person should have a new chance until he proves he hasn't changed.
-
To all concerned...
We the mods and admins(and owners) fret over having to ban anybody and only a very few have banned since PA has been on line. They were all given fair warning, a second and sometimes third chance and warned again before a banning occurs. We discuss these situations and try to come to a conclusion and remedy that is good for all involved. Most of us(admins and mods) have met Dana and most of us consider him a friend and know that he has contributed positively to PA...but rules are rules! Dana knew before he was banned that he was on thin ice and would be banned if he didn't change his actions here on PA, but opted to "try" us one more time and it bit him. I'm sorry it happened but it did!
I sincerely hope Dana can get his life back together. If he does and can prove it to us there is a chance we will reconsider reinstating him but for now it is what it is.
Dana had a very close call just a few days ago and it will take him a long while to get over that and to come to terms with his deamons. There is nothing that any of us can do for Dana at this point. It is totally up to him. If and when he comes to terms with his problems and can prove to us(admins and mods) that he has indeed changed, I'm sure he will be considered for reinstatment...but until then, it is what it is!!!
-
Well said Pat. It takes months or even years to prove that a real change has been made, not just a week or two. I don't know Dana, but with this much support, he must be a good person. Hopefully his change is permanent, and the ban isn't. Only time will tell.
-
I know Dana and have met him personally more than once. There is one side of Dana that is good as gold, and I consider him a friend. There is also a side that has been very difficult for us to deal with. Many things happen here sometimes that are not seen by most members, because they are deleted before anyone has the chance to see them, or they happen behind the scenes out of the sight of most members. As Pat said, banning is not a quick or immediate action. It is the culmination of a long pattern of repeated behavior that is detrimental to the site and contrary to its rules. I sincerely hope that Dana can work through his problems, because he is a great guy and an asset to the board if the other part can be kept out of the picture. There is not a lot of point to us continuing this discussion on the board IMO, as it will eventually lead to more arguing. None of us or perfect. I have many faults myself, and don't always behave as I should. But we don't have that many rules, and they are not that hard to follow. 99% of the members here have never been warned or suspended, let alone banned, because they follow the rules.
-
Well...I have been staying out of this one for personal reasons...My Wife is an Alcoholic...this does not just go away...in fact it never goes away...period...
Dana is in for a Long Struggle...The Struggle of His Life....Literally!
And When (I do have Hope) He gets a Grip on this Monster....He is going to need all of the Support He can Muster...I for one am on this Support Team...and will do what I can for Him...He will need a 12 step program...and all of the Local Help that He can gather also...the Closer the Support...The Better..
Dana is a damned good man...He needs help...and has reached out for it...now He just has to hold on and ride this Beast Out...I think He can do it..
Everyone that has Posted has said they have met or have chatted with....and Like Dana...the Real Dana...not the Drunk Dana....well...They are One in The same..I just pray He can get a Grip on His Addiction and be the Great Guy We all know and Love to be with...
Everyone who only knew Me through this Board...thought that I was an Arrogant...mouthy Bastard that Built decent Bows ...then They met Me at Pappy's...and found out that I am really...An Arrogant Mouthy Bastard that builds descent Bows and Knives too.... :P
So lets all Hope...Pray...or whatever You do...for Dana to get His Life together...and get another Chance to become a Brother on this Board again...you know that deep down ......We all miss Him...just my opinion...I may be wrong
-
So lets all Hope...Pray...or whatever You do...for Dana to get His Life together...and get another Chance to become a Brother on this Board again...you know that deep down ......We all miss Him...just my opinion...I may be wrong
Well said El D, but Ill add:
So lets all Hope...Pray...or whatever You do...for Dana to get His Life together... for Dana's and his families health and happiness regardless of all else.
Justin
-
I agree 100% Justin, that is the main concern for Dana. I dont know why i even posted on this thread, I dont know Dana at all. I guess it just hits home a little bit. I found myself in his situation years ago, and when things hit the fan for me, it was my family and friends support that got me through and to where i am today. Keeping him banded and at a distance will never let him prove himself or give him the support he needs. Please dont take what ive said as arguing or confrontational. Its just an observation and an opinion.
-
Personally I dont believe in psychiatrist's I think its a pseudo science. They have a much higher suicide and divorce rate than the regular population. They like to bring up the past and give people more trouble than they already had. I say leave the past in the past and dont worry too much about the future. One day at a time. Never gonna solve all your problems so dont dwell on them. Real help comes from above not some $100 per hour shmuck that doesnt know any more than the next guy and has the same or worse problems them self. JMO ;D
-
I've been to a couple of pro's, The 1st one was a total waste of time and money. The 2nd helped me remember that I knew the problems and solutions and that I just needed the dicipline to follow my true heart. You nailed it on the head when you said that worrying about what others think is the last thing a person need worry about.The LAST thing. My Depression comes and goes but I know it for what it is. Life is good (And short) Deal with the day ' Frank
-
Jesse, i almost totaly agree with your statement
except for the help from above part
u thik the best help comes from within
you have to be able to identify your demons and learn to deal with them yourself
before anyone else can help,jmho
-
There is a lot that has gone on that everybody is not of where. Like Hillbilly said, some stuff has been deleted before anybody saw it. There was emails sent that some of you didn't see. And a few directed at the owners and family of Primitive Archer Magazine that Dana, I'm sure, has not told anybody about when he was emailing, Facebooking and doing his campaining to get reinstated again.
Like Steve said, this is beating a dead horse in the ground, and Dana's problem at the present shouldn't be sidetracked with getting back on the board. If he is serious he has a long road ahead of him, and I hope he gets all the help he can and support from his family and very, close, friends. Getting back on PA should be the least of his worries.
I hope the best for him, he is truely a nice person, but this is something he has to do for hisself.
-
A good shrink will do one important thing for you, teach you to stop lying to yourself to justify your actions.
Been there, done that.
-
Eric,shrinks will do one other thing for you to
They will empty your bank acct with their
$200 per hour fee :o :o
-
Most music lessons aren't free, either :P
-
Health insurance covers shrink visits. I needed one when my first wife ran off with some one else, great experience geting my head shrunk.
-
My wife said I need to go see a head shrink. But I think that had something to do with my head being too big.
Eddie, neither are fishing lessons. ;)
-
...have you been to an auto mechanic lately? ;D ::)
-
...have you been to an auto mechanic lately? ;D ::)
Thats why a lot of us are DIY ers. cant afford to have someone else do it. Im in the wrong business. I went to the packer game yesterday and spent $16.50 on 2 hot dogs and hot chocolate. I need to start selling hot dogs ;D
In case I offended anyone with my view on shrinks. I was just giving my opinion. To each their own. Im sure they have value as someone to listen to you when you need it.
-
...have you been to an auto mechanic lately? ;D ::)
...have you been to an auto mechanic lately? ;D ::)
Thats why a lot of us are DIY ers. cant afford to have someone else do it. Im in the wrong business. I went to the packer game yesterday and spent $16.50 on 2 hot dogs and hot chocolate. I need to start selling hot dogs ;D
In case I offended anyone with my view on shrinks. I was just giving my opinion. To each their own. Im sure they have value as someone to listen to you when you need it.
yup ;D
i love modern vehicles
they are making them so that the "DIY'ers" cant do it themselves anymore
unless they want to spend tens of thousands of $$ to get the kind of equipment to diag it right the first time
or (like they do) they can throw all kinds of parts at it and still not have it fixed,then they bring it to me and i fix it right the first time
-
Jesse;
It might be a good idea to have someone to talk to up there. There can't be very many people in yooperville, they're all down here right now. ;D
-
Jesse;
It might be a good idea to have someone to talk to up there. There can't be very many people in yooperville, they're all down here right now. ;D
:D
-
I emailed him yesterday,I sure hope he pulls it off,you didn't offend me jesse,my thoughts also.
sailordad,I have also been a mechanic all my life,that's why I never complane what a plummer electricans or anyone else charges for there services. ;) :) :)
Pappy
-
I think we all agree that Dana is a nice guy...he was to me. Giving me stuff each time we came together! I agree that Dana's most immediate need is to try and overcome his adiction. I wish him all the luck in the world, hopefully he will succeed. I do miss the sober Dana as do most of us, but respect the decision's made by the necessary people following the rules of the forum. Like Mullet said, we're not all privy to what took place.
Life's road can take some very difficult turns!