Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Pat B on December 27, 2010, 07:35:48 pm
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On our walk this morning we noticed this scene off in the woods not far from our driveway.
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wow pat did you find any tracks.
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If I was a betting man I would say dogs based on the way the carcass was consumed.
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Brian, Our hunting season has been over for two weeks now so it wasn't hunters that killed her. I'm assuming it was coyotes. We found it about 10 this morning and she wasn't frozen even with most of the meat off and without her innards so it must been this morning when she met her end. It was 19deg at day break this morning. It's wierd that everything was in that one area and not a big scuffle area. Like the coyotes(or whatever) jumped her right there, brought her down and that was it. Her body was dragged a little bit but not very far.
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did ya grab the sinew before you left? ;D
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Tim, I'm going back to get the goodies later. ;) I put a trail cam on it to see what visits tonight.
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Nowhere near a Road Pat? Don't seem right that Yotes would have taken down a Full Grown Doe...not in that little bit of Snow...Could She have been injured by a Car and wandered in to die there?
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Mike, the closest paved road(dead end and we are at the end) is 1/4mi away and two miles to a road with enough traffic to worry about. That's what seems so strange. Didn't hear any shots last night or this morning.
Last year during hunting season someone shot a spike on a nearby property and it died up along the power line that goes through our property and no one found it. We watched the carcus for a week to see the progression of disassembly and decided we needed the trail cam for such events( ;) ::) ). I did collect leg bones and the spikes from it when all was said and done.
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The trail cam may tell you something later.
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That is wierd Pat, what that is also funny is that you have snow and we have none. Be intresting to see the trail cam pics.
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Pulling off my $700 pair of sunglasses and using my best Horatio Caine/CSI Miami voice....."From the lack of I.D. or distinguishing marks I guess we'll have to call her (pause for dramatic effect).... 'Jane Doe'. "
*YEEEEEEEEE-AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH*
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John, I think you nailed it! Jane Doe! ;D
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I pulled the media card from the trail cam this morning. There were 25 pics on the card but except for an initial viewing my card reader won't read this card. I guess the card is worn out.
From looking at the initial pics it looks like mostly crows and my lab Lucy. I wondered where she went yesterday afternoon! ::)Nothing was disturbed this morning compared to yesterday. I installed a new card and will check it later. Still couldn't tell what or who was involved.
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I always put a camera on a gutpile. I've got pictures of coyotes,vultures,possums,coons,crows,squirrels,and ,on the doe I got this thanksgiving,a big bobcat,for 2 hours and 45 minutes.You never know what your going to get. God Bless
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Nowhere near a Road Pat? Don't seem right that Yotes would have taken down a Full Grown Doe...not in that little bit of Snow...Could She have been injured by a Car and wandered in to die there?
Mike, our coyotes here ain't the same ones ya'll have out west. The eastern yote is almost evolved into a differnt species, and they carry wolf DNA. Some of ours go over 60 lbs, and they run in packs like wolves. They commonly take down adult deer on a regular basis . Our average mature doe here weighs about a hundred pounds, and the average yearling about 50-60. The average yote is about 45-50.
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That's some big ole Song Dogs for sure....ours normally hunt in pairs here...sometimes 3-4....and I have never seen one kill anything bigger than a jack rabbit or turkey.
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We only saw 1 fawn this year at the lease on the trail cams. I think the yotes and bobcats wiped out our whole fawn crop. Hunting hogs at night it sounds like there are about 50 of them, though I'm sure it isn't that bad. It makes the long walk in to camp from the field blind at about 2am really unnerving.
Pat, I am curious if you'll catch the killer on trail cam. Why is it that an SD cards chance of failing is directly proportional to how bad you want the pictures off it?? ???
George
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I guess that's the way technology works George. As soon as you get used to it it bite you! ::)
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Eastern 'yotes are well on their evolutionary path to a divergent species. There are subspecies of serveral animals that are divided based on behavior and/or vocalizations. Considering the aggressive pack behavior of the eastern 'yotes compared to the small and shy western yodel-pups there is significant reason to start thinking of them as a different animal all together. Explains why most eastern deer hunters hew to the rule of shoot on sight. Out here in western South Dakota I just think of them as comic relief as I watch them stalk mice/voles or bust a covey of grouse when they have no chance of catching one.
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coyotes have for sure taken over some parts here in penna.I,m not sure they take many mature healthy deer but fawns in the spring and weak or crippled deer don,t stand a chance.Up at the cabin in northen Pa.(potter Co.) My boy and I always carry ropes and a pulley in case we get a deer late way back in.We pulley it up into a tree and get it in the morning.Gut-piles from previous deer don,t last overnight.We,ve taken a few yotes this year with the biggest one(male) tipping the scales just under 50lbs.have a great day-Lloyd
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Just to clarify, western song dogs will kill a healthy doe. I have seen it and I have seen them kill a whole flock of sheep. They don't usually pack up like the eastern dogs do, but in the late fall it isn't unusual to see a pair with several grown pups out hunting together. Whether she was sick or healthy I don't know, but I would wager on the dogs being the ones eating her.
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All of the evidence is in a relatively small area. Our only other big predators are black bears and there is a cougar in the general area. This mature doe was brought down and eaten in a manner a pack of dogs(coyotes) would have done and not a lone bear or cat...and not coverde like a cat would do. It is surprising that the "crime scene" isn't bigger than it is and that more hair wasn't scattered around. It all came down pretty quickly.
We have been below freezing since we found her but after tonight it will be getting warmer with rain coming in. I think more activity will happen as the "smell" factor increases. I'll check the trail cam in the morning and see what has been visiting. I know Lucy Brown will be in at least a few pics. ;D She sure has been acting funny at night lately with lots of barking and howling.
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I went to check the trail cam and crime scene this morning. It was obvious that the scene was tampered with last night...41 pics on the cam. :o When I checked the settings on the cam it showed it would take pics every 30 seconds so I have changed that to every 2 minutes. Here are a few of the pics with a few culprits...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/12-29-2010trailcam007.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/12-29-2010trailcam026.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/12-29-2010trailcam030.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/12-29-2010trailcam039.jpg)
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The first pic is my lab Lucy Brown. She likes fresh venison. ;D Lucy is 55# so you can compare her size with the coyote. Looks like the crows and a buzzard were enjoying the feast also. In a few of the coyote pics you could see more eyes shining in the background.
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Here are a few trail cam pics of eastern yotes taking on adult deer. I got these from another forum. The first three are a series of two yotes taking down a spike buck at a feeder. A spike buck in this area usually will weigh about 110 lbs. average. You can see the size of the yotes. Doesn't look like they had much trouble catching it, and there isn't any deep snow there. The fourth is an unrelated pic of a yote chasing an adult deer. A large percentage of the coyote scat I find has deer hair in it.
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Very interesting, Pat!
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Pretty cool Pat, bet it was the coyotes that perpetrated the crime, guess I am going to have to get a trail cam. We suspect we have foxes and no telling what eating the barn cat food.
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Those are some strange looking songdogs there. ( Big too ! ) Think there might be a little eastern red wolf in there ? That tail in the last shot is looking wolfie, maybe some domestic dog Hybridization ? I don't know. When I left South Carolina in 1979, we were shooting alot of feral dogs. They were breeding in the wild and running in packs. We would bait them out of the river swamp and shoot 'em with rifles. I know that coyotes are there now, so surely there has been some hybridization there. I have seen Dog/Coyote Hybrids here in Washington state. Critters ' Frank
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These have only been around here for a few years. Down in GA where my hunt club was there were lots and some the locals called coydogs. I saw one that was solid black except for a white tip on his tail.
Where in SC did you live, Frank. We moved here 20 years ago from Bluffton, near HHIs on the coast. Originally from Savannah.
From what I've heard coyotes were introduced by fox hunters with the stipulation they were neutered before release. ::) Apparently the fox hounds would chase coyotes too.
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Pat, since you know there are coyotes in the immediate area you should slip out there late this evening and see if one doesn't want to come to your predator call and get arrowed. Kenneth
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Pat, your 'yote on the carcass has a rather fine looking coat/arrow quiver.
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If I didn't already have 2 tanned coyote cased hides I might consider it. It is fun just watching Mother Nature at work. ;)
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They're making you some more knife handles ;)
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That's what I'm waiting for, Steve! ;D