Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Lombard on November 24, 2010, 03:05:03 pm

Title: BBM Glued Up (Now with final photos)
Post by: Lombard on November 24, 2010, 03:05:03 pm
Glued up a BBM, just to try it. Mild Deflex/Reflex. Photos of it in and out of the form. The bending strip to protect the belly really helped on this one.
Thank you Hillibilly61 for the Bamboo, the nodes had excellent spacing. Good old gap filling Urac185 for the glue up. 
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: NTProf on November 24, 2010, 04:09:25 pm
What does the M stand for?
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: ken75 on November 24, 2010, 04:21:59 pm
im interested in seeing this one finished . i always get gaps between the handle block and the reflex clamp unless i put about 6 or 8 clamps in between
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Lombard on November 24, 2010, 05:30:45 pm
NTProf, the M in this case is for Maple. Fully quarter sawn, no run off, straight grain from end to end. A sweet piece of wood to start with.

Ken, if you look at the photo, and note all the brown color along the edge. That is all the excess glue that squeezed out as the stretch  wrap (which doesn't show in the photo) is wound tightly and overlapping, cocooning the lams together, with all the pressure necessary for a good gap filling glue like Urac185. The glue squeezing out is my indicator that I'm getting the stretch wrap tight enough.

This was a really nice piece of bamboo. At the handle section it is 1/8" thick, tapering to less than 1/16" at the tips. The edges of the bamboo are paper thin, and will cut you bad, if not handled with care.  Just hoping, with careful tillering, that the boo doesn't over power the Maple.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: snag on November 24, 2010, 06:20:06 pm
I'd watch that dog...looks like he is interested in the bow too.....haha
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: hillbilly61 on November 24, 2010, 06:49:38 pm
Your quite welcome Lombard. If ya need some more let me know and I'll bring it to the Spring Fling. The way you make those bows, This one should be as knock-out.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: half eye on November 24, 2010, 06:58:40 pm
Hey Lombard,
       Quarter sawed hard maple with any sort of backer is gonna be a butt kicker.....bamboo ought to make it a smokin butt kicker. Like the layout sir,
rich
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Lombard on November 24, 2010, 07:21:10 pm
Snag, that dag gum dog won't let you take a photo when you want to, but just try to get one of a bow and all she can see is an opportunity at another stick.

Hillbilly61, I will most likely take you up on that at the Spring Arrow Fling.

Rich, being such clean grain, I was betting it would be a good chunk of Maple to try.

Got a picture or three. One of the front profile, before planing to the lines, another with a string showing that I finally got one off the form to line up tip to tip, and the last one after planing down to the lines. That will be all for tonight, as the wife has a honey do list this evening. Christmas cards or some such, arrggg!
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: hillbilly61 on November 25, 2010, 11:50:00 am
 I can tell that is going to be a sweet shooter ;) How many pieces do you want?Maybe we could trade? A quarter sawn Hickory board? ;D
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Lombard on November 26, 2010, 12:57:23 pm
Thank you Hillbilly61, in one of these photos, you can see a few Pecan staves in the background, cut and split earlier this month. Perhaps you may be interested in a couple of those in trade. The hardwood mill where I was able to procure nice Red Oak, Hickory, and sometimes Elm boards, is no longer a reliable source for cost effective boards. The gentleman who runs the business, had a stroke, and does not get around as well, and speech is difficult for him. Basically they are just selling off remaining stock, and what is left is not premium, ie... full of bugs. So I am on the hunt for another source of reasonably priced hardwood boards.

Made very little progress on the bow, but did manage to glue on the handle riser, and get it the rough shape rasped in.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Pat B on November 26, 2010, 01:03:06 pm
Lombard, Looks like you need to reduce the limb thickness at the fade area or when you try to bend the bow the handle might pop off. The glued on riser needs to be above the plane of the bending portion of the limb to prevent the handle area from bending. If the handle area bends in the slightest the handle will pop off.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Lombard on November 26, 2010, 01:15:28 pm
Thanks Pat, that sounds like sage advise that I am inclined to except.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Lombard on November 26, 2010, 05:36:54 pm
Got a little rasped away Pat, rain put an end to standing outside at the sawhorse. Maybe twist up a string for it this afternoon, and get back to scraping tomorrow.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Lombard on November 27, 2010, 01:48:12 pm
Got back on this morning. Rasp a little, file a little, scrape, scrape, scrape. Actually starting to have some Buchanan Dips now. Just a little long string tillering so far, and a long way to go.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Lombard on November 27, 2010, 06:01:41 pm
Made some progress this fine day. It took awhile to get it to the string, but from there to twenty eight inches went faster than I could have anticipated. It is fifty four pounds at twenty eight at the moment. Still some room to correct tiller, with the goal being a forty five pound bow. After finish shaping on the grip, and sanding, it should come in pretty close.  the first two dozen arrows shot well enough. That is it for today.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Ryano on November 27, 2010, 09:48:27 pm
Dave, you need to get the outer limbs to open up more. What you have there is two way too long levers and the bow is only working in the inner part of the limbs. A D/R bow should be tillered so the entire limb is still working evenly with maybe just slightly stiff outer limb tips say the last 6" or so. Next time you glue one up if you cut out your front profile on the boo first and then retaper it from handle to tip before you glue it on to the core this will help to get those outer limbs bending more. Hope this helps, Ryan.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Lombard on November 27, 2010, 11:22:54 pm
Thanks Ryan, that does help. I planed it full width, and the taper looked okay, but once the profile was planned down to the lines after glue up, I realized that the bamboo was thicker than what was wanted.  I'll see about getting those outer limbs to open up more. I'd rather end up with a thirty pound bow with the right tiller, than a forty five pound bow that looks stupid. Your tip will be the answer on the next glue up.

Getting those outer limbs to open up does raise a question or two for me though. Should it be done by side tillering, or continued belly scraping? I'm concerned that just belly scraping will make it to thin to handle the thicker than wanted bamboo? Would trapping the bamboo help in this regard also? Thanks again, Dave
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: NTD on November 27, 2010, 11:39:24 pm
Ryan's advice helped me get in the right direction for tillering R/D's but I still have a ways to go.  I think it was Mullet who helped me with the idea of getting the outer limbs to open first and THEN work the mid and inner limbs.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Ryano on November 28, 2010, 10:42:25 am
Yes Dave you got the right idea. Trap the boo and narrow the outer limbs and scrap the belly. What NTD said is correct, I always work from the mid limb out first on these type of bows and sometimes I barely touch the inner limbs with a scraper other than just to round the edges of the limbs a little. That all depends on how thick your core started off at glue up and the draw weight your shooting for. Actualy no matter what kind of bow I'm tillering I leave the inner limbs alone until I'm aproaching full draw length/weight.  I try to get them to just start bending near the end of the draw.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Lombard on November 28, 2010, 01:25:00 pm
Got on to it some more. It is drawing forty pounds in this photo. Outer limbs are opening up a good bit more. Used a combination of trapping, side tillering, and belly scraping. At this point I'm going to put it down for awhile, and come back to it in a week or two with fresh eyes. Far from what I hoped for, but good lessons learned on this one. I'll have that boo profiled and tapered better on the next glue up, as per Ryan's suggestions.

My Wife took the photos, just starting the draw, full draw, and just off the string.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Lombard on November 29, 2010, 01:11:16 pm
It was sitting up there on the mantle taunting me. I tried to look away, and occupy my mind with other things, but like a persistent mosquito  that bad tiller was buzzing around my head. An ugly picture that needed to be rectified. So with some more scrapes here and there it ended up here, where it will stay. Still not great, but closer than where it was. After eighty grit sanding it weighs thirty six pounds at twenty eight, which isn't all bad, because at my draw length of thirty inches, it reads forty one pounds on my Pelouze. Bows for myself, I try to bring in between forty five and fifty pounds at thirty inches.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Lombard on December 01, 2010, 06:41:33 pm
Did some scraping this afternoon removing the waxy rind. The node above the file is the transition zone. Once removed the bamboo takes on a pleasant straw color.  Got the final sanding done, and the dye rubbed in. Haven't decided yet what the bow will be sealed with. My two choices here at the house without going anywhere, are spar varnish or paraffin.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Ryano on December 01, 2010, 07:06:40 pm
Dave what kind of glue did you use to glue it up? If you used urac you could always temper the belly with a heat gun and add a little more reflex to get the draw weight up a few pounds. I just lightly sand the back of the bamboo now since others have told me they have less problems with it splintering on down the road if they don't remove the rind. PS. The tiller looks much better now.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: mullet on December 01, 2010, 07:56:31 pm
 I can't add much to this, Ryan's giving you the best advice you can get. That tiller does look a lot better, now.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Lombard on December 02, 2010, 02:05:13 pm
Yeah Eddie, Ryan's advise has helped me in my bow making endeavors substantially, to which I am ever grateful.

Heated the belly with the bow secured to my re-flexing form that is mainly used for self bows, and was able to get the weight up to 40@28. That gets it where I like at my draw of thirty inches. Opted for the spar varnish, and have two coats applied and drying.  Thanks again Ryan, for the advice.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Stingray45 on December 02, 2010, 02:48:31 pm
I really like the BBM bow you posted on here. I had a quick question for you on it. I have some bamboo I just got and am planning to do a glue up on a hickory board and want to put in some R/D into it. I was wondering what demensions you had on the maple when you glued it up? I was thinking of tapering from 5/8" at the handle down to 3/8" at the tip. Then I was going to glue on the bamboo and put in the R/D at that time. Any advice you can provide would be appreciated. Thanks.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up
Post by: Lombard on December 03, 2010, 07:29:05 pm
Thanks Stingray. The Maple started out 7/8" x 1 7/8" x 66". Tapered the belly from 1/2" at the dips to 3/16" at the tips. The front profile tapered full width at the dips to 1/2" wide at the tips. If you haven't already noted, RyanO offers advise above on these bows regarding tapering the bamboo and tillering, that you may find helpful as well.

Glued on my leather arrow rest and strike plate this evening, and wrapped the handle with Hemp twine.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up (Now with final photos)
Post by: Lombard on December 04, 2010, 02:41:33 pm
Went out to hunt this morning, ended up just killing three stumps, and four arrows. Not all bad though.

I've some final photos of this project of the belly, back, unbraced, braced, and full draw. There is a need to be careful where this one gets put down, it disappears easily.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up (Now with final photos)
Post by: Pat B on December 04, 2010, 02:44:07 pm
Looks like you nailed it!!!   8)
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up (Now with final photos)
Post by: Lombard on December 04, 2010, 02:50:40 pm
I just love hunting, and stump shooting out here. Just a matter of opening the door and going out back.

Only had three arrows left though after loosing two, and breaking the other two on rocks, in other words missed shots.

Once back at the house I shot my last three arrows at my old target. Top arrow 35-40 pounds, bottom arrow is 50-55 pounds ,and the middle arrow is 40-45 pounds. Shot from fifty feet.

Thank you Pat, between you and Ryan, I got her going in the right direction.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up (Now with final photos)
Post by: ken75 on December 04, 2010, 04:06:16 pm
lombard i think you did an excellent job and it looks like you learned along the way. fun aint it !
sounds as if you need some arrows ! let me know if you ever need some telephone pole shafts like i make
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up (Now with final photos)
Post by: hedgeapple on December 05, 2010, 12:55:41 am
Nice.  I love the mild R/D style.  AND good shooting, too.
Dave
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up (Now with final photos)
Post by: NTD on December 05, 2010, 01:05:30 am
You sure brought that one around.  Tiller looks good.  Nice work.
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up (Now with final photos)
Post by: Ryano on December 05, 2010, 11:01:59 am
That turned out pretty nice Dave. Glad I was able to be of assistance.  ;D
Title: Re: BBM Glued Up (Now with final photos)
Post by: Lombard on December 05, 2010, 11:46:58 pm
Thanks again for the compliments gentlemen. I had ruined some of the nice bamboo that I had gotten from Hillbilly61, trying to build bamboo backed bamboo bellied bows. Ran into tillering and glue up issues. This one did come together so at least one piece of that grass stands a chance at making meat ;).