Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: youngbowyer on November 02, 2010, 04:27:23 pm
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Hi,
As my recent experiment with a birch longbow with a d shaped belly failed i decided to make another bow. At the moment i can't get my hands on any decent longbow woods so i went to my local lumber yard and all i could find was maple and red oak. Would red oak work(as you know im 13 so warbow weight for me is 50/55# ;D)
Thanks, Tom.
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Yep, that would work. Just make sure the oak has wide and straight growth rings.
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thanks! should i make a full compass bow or a stiff handle? also how wide should i make it(by the way the bow will only be around 66 inches from nock to nock ? Since this is a board bow do i need to chase a growth ring for the back of the bow?
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As it is rather short, make it bend in the handle too. You can chase a growth ring for security, but I usually make my board bows from ringporous woods (such as oak) with standing growth rings. The growth rings will then look like straight lines on the back of the bow, with the rings feathering out on the sides of the bow. I'd start with about 30mm width at the middle, tapering down to 12mm at the tips in convex lines.
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I'd go for more of an elliptical tiller with the handle only barely felt bending the last inch or two of the draw.
I'm working on a red oak ELB right now but its 72" long.
Are you going to do a rounded belly or flat?
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Thanks for the info guys. And yes it will be a rounded belly I'll post some pictures later
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Some pictures of the stave
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp235/tombowyer/redoakelb4.jpg)
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp235/tombowyer/redoakelb3.jpg)
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp235/tombowyer/redoakelb2.jpg)
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp235/tombowyer/redoakelb1.jpg)
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Here's the bow on the tillering stick with a loose string
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp235/tombowyer/red%20oak%20elb/redoakelbtillering.jpg)
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with that board stave I would follow the grain lines and not just cut straight
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well it broke as i was tillering it
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OK, I have a soft spot for young bowyers. I'd like to see you get a chance to try a stave. Are you up to chasing a ring on an osage stave? If so, I will send you a stave for the price of the shipping (which varies depending on where you are). I cannot guarantee the stave will not have borer damage, but so far I've been able to make bows out of all the staves I have used. The last 2 have had pretty good borer holes in the limbs, but the bows still held together. Let me know.
George
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Ill send u a pm
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Sent you one back. I'm impressed that you're working on an elb. I've never tried one. Not sure if osage is a good elb wood or not?
George
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Sent you one back. I'm impressed that you're working on an elb. I've never tried one. Not sure if osage is a good elb wood or not?
George
Yes, osage is a fantastic ELB wood. It and yew are probably the best. I've made ELBs up to 110# with osage as belly wood.
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What was the osage backed with? I've seen 1 unbacked osage elb and it was very narrow, but still pulled 60#.
George
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Given appropriate dimensions, and the right stave, osage can easily make a 100+# selfbow.
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OK, I have a soft spot for young bowyers.
that sounds weird
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It does. How bout this, I hate to hear young bowyers sound discouraged when their bow breaks? Makes me want to share some osage. I think I intended to write, "I have a soft spot in my heart..." but even that sounds a little weird. Dang, how bout we just get you a stave to play with??
George
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hahaha funny guys. The oak bow broke because the grain was of the piece on the side. Just an observation. Good luck with the osage.
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regarding:
Are you up to chasing a ring on an osage stave?
If you don't get on with hand tools it is very easy to chase a growth ring with an angle grinder (with sanding attachment)
if you search for my guide (back street bowyer) on google there are instructions on how I do this along with a video clip
(I don't think I can link direct to it on this forum)
I can usually do an entire stave in under 30 mins (with hand tools I would still be struggling with my first one now ;-)
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I told youngbowyer in a PM I'd heard of someone using an angle grinder as a sander. That must've been you. The draw knife isn't a hard tool to learn, just tricky if you have no one to instruct you. I would also say that the draw knife is much easier to use on osage and mulberry than the white woods I've tried it on. I took an osage bow back to a growth ring yesterday afternoon in about 2 hours. It would have been faster if it hadn't had so many knots. Even so, I may try your approach anyway because it sounds so intriguing. In his case it might work a lot better than going it alone with the draw knife. You never know though, he might pick it right up.
I'm trying to find the most cost effective way to send him the stave. Osage is heavy.
George
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lol - yes, that will be me
I struggled for ages with a spoke shave then a draw knife but I was getting blisters and only managed to chase about 6 inch
as you say, having someone to show how to use the tools would probably have helped me a lot
out of shear desperation I tried my angle grinder and 30mins later I was finished :-)
I have only tried it on white woods and without knots though
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Alan, I really think your problem was with the wood. I once tried to chase a ring with the draw knife to make a bow from the lower half of a big hackberry stave. It was an exercise in futility. The thing chattered and before long I had speed bumps on the bow's back. Eventually I gave up and made firewood of my hackberry staves. A clear osage stave (which is almost an oxymoron) is wonderful to work with a draw knife. In fact, therein lies the danger. Just like with power tools, it is real easy to take wood off too fast and go through your ring. It's hard to argue with a 30 minute job on ring chasing though. I call ring chasing bowyers aerobics cause it always wears me out. At my age that's a good thing, I need all the exercise I can get.
Do you have osage over in the UK?
George
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hahaha funny guys. The oak bow broke because the grain was of the piece on the side. Just an observation. Good luck with the osage.
. I just noticed that as well
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decided to have a go with red oak one more time. This time i think the bow will be a bit more square in cross section. So far i tapered the limbs and should get to rounding tomorrow. Probably start tillering it on wednesday.
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Show us another picture of the grain
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This is the new red oak elb
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp235/tombowyer/new%20red%20oak%20elb/DSCN2749.jpg)
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp235/tombowyer/new%20red%20oak%20elb/DSCN2751.jpg)
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp235/tombowyer/new%20red%20oak%20elb/DSCN2752.jpg)
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from the angle it looks good, i would try to get it bending just a little bit more mid limb and towards the tips
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i will try get it bending more from mid limb to the tips ill post some pictures tonight
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Finished it today just need to give it a final sanding and put a finish on it.
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp235/tombowyer/new%20red%20oak%20elb/DSCN2760.jpg)
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp235/tombowyer/new%20red%20oak%20elb/DSCN2758.jpg)
(http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp235/tombowyer/new%20red%20oak%20elb/DSCN2753.jpg)
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here it is on the tiller pulled at 28 inches
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Thanks! The bow is pulling a lot less than I wanted to so I was thinking about treating it. However this is a board bow and I think that this is kiln dried wood so would heat treating work or would it make the bow to brittle
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...if you want more draw weight, start another one :)
Hopefully I can help with that. Here's the osage stave I split out tonight for him:
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/tom-stave1.jpg)
90" long, over 2" wide at each end and a little over an inch thick at that little jog in the middle. Quite straight, but it will need a little bit of straightening to keep the string in the handle. It has a gentle twist but not bad. To the center of that jog is 42" from the short end. If I were making a bow from it I'd make that little curve the handle. I can either send it as is (assuming I can find or make a box to fit) or cut it in half and splice it at the wide ends, taking out that bend. Not sure which would be better. I'm quite sure that'll make a heavy enough elb unless there's some damage under the sapwood I don't see . I did see at least 2 knots. Best of all it is so thin it only weighs 12 lbs.
George
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Looks like a nice stave George. Might be better to splice them because I'm not sure if I have the skill to work that twist
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Now I have a question. When splicing billets to make an ELB, should I splice in reflex? I would making a flatbow but not sure what to do here.
Thanks,
George
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The bow and the tiller look great
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it broke again.....after some tears and some cursing and saying that i wouldnt make a bow again i decided to have one more go with the osage that george stoneberg is sending me. Red oak is just not working out for me.
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Could you post another picture of the break? And also are you backing them?
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Now that I'm home from hunting I'll get after your stave. Sorry to hear this one broke. Do you want me to cut the stave down to length? I can't remember what you were shooting for again?
George
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I'm going for about 60 pounds at 30" and around 68 to 70" long
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Got a few minutes to work on your bow stave before Thanksgiving dinner this morning. Here's before and after I chased a growth ring.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/growth_ring-before.jpg)
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/growth_ring-after.jpg)
Lots of borer damage. It's good you didn't make this one your first time chasing a growth ring. I'm going to go down one more ring to get rid of quite a bit of the damage, but will heat bend the bow first. Then if I discolor that outside ring it'll get removed. I'd like to make the limbs narrower before I do the bending. Any borer holes remaining will be filled with sawdust and glued with superglue.
Can anyone give me approximate widths for an osage ELB so I don't make it too narrow? The stave is about 76" now, once I have the tips aligned with the handle I'll probably shorten it to 72" for shipping.
Thanks,
George
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1 1/4 at the handle tapering down to 1/2 at the tips
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Sorry, I've been out deer hunting. I won't go all the way to those dimensions, but it'll bend better if it's thinner.
Thanks,
George
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Nice!
Looks like your shooting technique is very good too :)
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Thanks!
George once i receive the stave could i round the back so the cross section is more oval like the mary rose bows or would that violate the back since you already the chased the growth ring.
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I would defer to one of the ELB guys, but in my opinion osage is strong enough to have the back rounded. If you're worried you could back it with rawhide but I don't think it would need it. I round the back of my flatbows, just not as much as you'll want to. I say go for it.
George
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would rounding it violate the chased ring though?
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Maybe , if you cut through to another ring along the edges. The ring I've chosen is pretty thick, you night not cut clear through it. Even if you do, in my opinion it won't matter with the little bit you're doing. Osage is much tougher than the red oak you've been using.
George
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I'm a little discouraged with this stave. Since I finished taking it to a growth ring it has bent itself so it has a few inches of deflex on one side. It is 2 years old and was clamped in the vice at the handle when it happened! I've never seen that before. So, now in addition to removing the bend and untwisting each limb I also need to pull out some deflex. It took about an hour with the heat gun to remove the bend tonight.
Before:
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/tom-stave2.jpg)
After:
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/tom-stave4.jpg)
Had to toast it pretty good.
(http://72.64.80.21/gks-pictures/tom-stave3.jpg)
I only have tomorrow night and Thursday to work on it this week, some because I shot a doe with the rifle yesterday and need to butcher her. At this rate it'll be next week before I can get it sent to you. If you'd like to go faster, I have a rift sawn osage board I could send you instead. It's about 7/8" thick and has been drying for about 3 weeks. I could get that cut tomorrow and in the mail on Wed. You'll have to take your time so it can continue drying as you remove wood. Otherwise I'll try to get some good time in on this one through the weekend and get it to you next week. I'll also take a look at some more staves, and if I find an easier one to work than this one I'll switch to that.
George
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I'll just wait till you are ready with this stave George