Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: mspink on October 20, 2010, 01:24:05 pm
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Hello.. I'm new to snake backing but am going to try it on a maple bow.. Was wondering how safe a snake backing was and what kind of commercial glue would work best.. Also some tips on application would be appreciated.. Thanks
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mspink: I've backed a bow a total of one time with snakeskins :). I had already done some rawhide and wrapped them a little tight with ace bandaging strips, had a permanent spiral impression on the back of bow. Anyway: With the snakes I applied em with TB3, didn't use any wraps. Just smoothed and carresed them until they were stuck down good, let it dry and used a sanding block to work the loose edges off. Next time I'll be sanding the scales down between each coat of true oil for a smoother finish.
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I've only backed one bow with snakeskins too and I just followed Gordon's Hazelnut buildalong and tried to apply my skins the same way he did. I used Titebond III to glue them down after I re-hydrated the skins in a little warm (not hot!) water first. Then just did as Cowboy did and worked the skin down and pushed out all the air bubbles as the glue dried. :) Good luck, here's a link to the buildalong.
Gordons hazelnut D-bow build along TUTORIAL
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,4815.0.html
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Where can I find tb3? Is it available at stores like home depot.. If not what will they have that will work?
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Where can I find tb3? Is it available at stores like home depot.. If not what will they have that will work?
Yes
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My Home Depot doesn't carry it, I got it at another local hardware store, WoodCraft they have franchises a bunch of places. Home Depot will at least have TB I & TB II that will work. I think most guys use TB III because it's water proof.
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My Home Depot doesn't carry it, I got it at another local hardware store, WoodCraft they have franchises a bunch of places. Home Depot will at least have TB I & TB II that will work. I think most guys use TB III because it's water proof.
You better tell your home depot to get with the times, ours caries TB I, II, and III.
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I've been in some that do and others don't. Check another one if its close. Same with maple boards- some carry and others don't.
???
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Ok I'll check the home depot here. What does TB stand for?
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TB stands for TiteBond, a carpenter's yellow glue. It comes in TBI, TBII and TBIII with the latter one being waterproof. All three work well for bows.
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mspink, Snakeskins are for decoration and weatherproofing only. They provide no "safety" from breakage. Sinew backed bows really benefit from having a water resistant covering 9like snakeskin.) If backing over sinew, I always use the hide glue, that I used for the sinew. TB glues work well for placing the skin over wood or silk.
Ron
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I use TB3 and thin it out some with a little water.
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I have done a lot and all I ever use is TB3, I will say if this is your first you may want to use TB1 or 2
or even Elmer's regular wood glue,it will just give you a little more time to get it straight and all the air bubbles out.Any of them will work TB3 just sets up quicker and some what water proof but you are going to seal it anyway.. Be sure and soak the skins to get the soft,then dry off the access water,you will see the back bone line in the middle of the skin,try and keep it right down the middle[crown] of the bow back. Good luck,can't wait to see how it turns out.It scares a lot of people but believe me ,ant much to it.If I can do it anyone can. :)
Pappy
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I'll also add that you should make sure the bow you want to back has proven to be a sound shooter with no obvious problems. I'd shoot it at least a few hundred times before applying skins. I've wasted several nice sets of skins by jumping the gun and putting them on fresh bows that haven't proven their reliability :(
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The really funny thing is that Wood Magazine did some testing that was posted in the July issue, the glue joints were submerged for 24 hours. TB II (which is 60% cheaper) outperformed TB III in the tests with a 50% stronger joint after the test. Good old Elmers Glue performed really well and is even less expensive than any TB. Im going with Pappy on this one. Since I am going to seal it anyway, I'm going to use what I can find easy and cheap.
Elmer's isn't just for sealing the end of logs.
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Any white wood glue will work.Tiebond 111 works best I think.
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Before backing that bow, take a small peice of your snake skin and do a test glue on scrap wood. I picked up a tip on here that I use now, it was to stain the back of the bow black before adding the snake skin. I did a set of arrows with snake skin wrap cresting, used the magic marker on some and the rest just left the wood natural. You wouldn't believe the difference in pattern definintion. Oh yea, I have used hide glue, and TB II and III all worked fine as long as I got all the air bubbles out.
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Will darkening the back have work better with light skins versus darker skins?
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I've done probably 40 or so bows with snake skins. I use Titebond 2 watered down, with it being around 75% glue and 25% water. Size the back of the bow with a coat of the watered down glue and as its drying take the skins or skin (however even if its one skin I cut it in half so I can work on just one limb at a time) and get them wet. I usually get some hose water and a bowl and let them sit for about a minute. Then working fairly quickly I add another coat of the watered down glue to one bow limb and to the underside of one of the snake skins and starting from the handle I lay the skin down over the whole limb. Then starting from the handle to the tip again I go along and center the pattern to whatever snakes or curves the bow may have by tugging on the skin that hangs over the edge, pulling in out and downward manner. You have to keep messing with it for a about 10 to 15 mins as the glue sets up, I use the flat part of palm to kind of lightly 'squeegee' out and excess glue or air bubbles, again working from handle to tip. I never have used the wrap with ace bandage method and think its a terrible idea. Of course after that you go on to the next limb. When both limbs are done and the glue has dried for at least 24 hours I use a fine file to take the excess skin off the edges, working only as wide as the file at a time. Meaning you don't do long sweeping strokes like you do with wood as it will tend to tear the skin. After they're on and trimmed I use a gummy eraser to rub off all the scale platelets that cover each individual scale, you can see where they are since they darken the actual color of the skin and pattern of the snake. After that you're ready for finish. I have never messed up a skin job or ran into any problems with this method.
On a side note, I feel that snake skins for sure can add more than just looks, camo, and weather proofing to a bow. Just a coat of wood glue alone adds some splinter lifting protection to a bow, not to mention that many of the bullsnake skins I've used are fairly thick and a lot like goat skin as well as using python skin which is thicker than deer hide. Hope I helped.
dan
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I've sent out some boa and python skins that would qualify as rawhide protection.
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If you've ever skinned a Python or Boa, you'll know what Nate is talking about. There is no grabbing and just pulling it off like a rattlesnake.
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I talked to a guy with an 18 foot reticulated python in his freezer for me. I'll pick it up when I've got the ambition to skin it. Not looking forward to that one and am still trying to figure where I can tack up a 20'+ skin to dry....
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i would have to second the skins can be protection theory, and nate i have a 24 foot shed wall it would fit on ;D
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Ken LOL if you'd pay the shipping to send the whole dang snake to you I'd probably think about doing it ;D I'm probably just going to buy some cheap OSB and frame up a Large board to do it. The only other problem I see with a skin this big is there might not be much pattern on bow sized pieces. I'll sure have a heck of carcass to bait coyotes with >:D
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Nate, I'd cut it into 6' sections and then tack it up. By the way, I might be getting some legal gator hides.
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I thought about that Eddie but something in me just wants to see what this thing will look like full length ;D Thanks for the heads up on the gators! I will keep that in mind ;D
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Bring it to Texas, I have a 30' wall in the shop. Be happy to dry it for you. ;)
George