Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: PeteC on September 15, 2010, 10:16:55 pm
-
Check this out.I broke 2 staves in less than 15 minutes yesterday.I had been shooting both of them,attempting to finish them up most of the summer,but due to our very high humidity,kept having to put it off,due to moisture incurred set,and ever-changing tiller.Our RH dropped down to 55% yesterday,and I hoped to finish them up.I braced the American elm stave first,took a look at it on the tiller board,then drew it 26" and boom,both limbs broke.I then went to the cherry stave,did the same thing,and POW,top limb failure.I don't have many staves break on me,and this is my first double for sure.The failures were a combination of a couple of factors.First,I'm not much on this specie of elm,(it split too easy),preferring the more dense species,like slippery or winged elm,but it was what I had to work with at the time.Secondly,I had gotten a little liberal with heat treating this wood,trying to get all I could get out of it.The bad part of the deal is that earlier this summer,while too wet to tiller, I laid out 9 staves and put them on the forms.I am hesitant to try any of this wood ,after this failure.What do ya'll think? God Bless
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Did the elm have grub damage?Anyways I'm no expert but try skipping the heat on the next one and see what you can get out of it,the elms I broke either had grub damage or an overstessed,bad tiller job.Just a thought-Hammertime
-
dang Pete really hate to see that. If I ever break one it usually knocks the wind out of my sails for building for at least a couple of days I couldn't imagine what it feels like to break 2 in a row less than 15 minutes apart. Oh well sweep those 2 under the rug and start on another one in a few days. It had to be the wood's fault because every bow I have seen of yours the tiller looked great on. Good luck on your next project. :)
-
sorry to see that
can we some close up shos of the breaks?
-
Get back up on that horse...
-
Pete it sucks to break one let alone two but i say if you got 9 more i'd dig in and surely you can tweak here and there and get some shooters!!JMO But i say go for It!break em til ya make one ;)
-
Condolences, breakin 'em is no fun at all.
Dunno how humid it is where I am in the UK (maybe I'll check it out if it stops raining ;))
I don't worry too much about checking the moisture content of the timber, I just give it a year and let it aclimatise to the local conditions.
Now I know some woods (Hickory, but we don't get that in the UK) have a terrible reputation for sucking up the moisture, but maybe it's worth living with a bit of string follow rather than constantly re-drying the wood?
Just a suggestion, (I reserve the right to be talking out of my nether regions).
Del
-
That is tough,I did that once,broke 3 in a day.I was begining to wonder if I had the right hobby. :)
Pappy
-
If you ain't breakin' nuthin'... you ain't makin' nuthin'...
-
Broke one yesterday that had been a shooter, piked a few inches off to try to pick up #'s and Blamo! First time in awhile, so I was due. That would annoy the heck out of me, though, two that quickly! Well, maybe you're just shaking off your dues and you'll be clear for a good long while now.
-
How long and wide were the bows where they broke. Might have just been bending too much in a small area. One of the most important things I have heard on here was from DCM, he said never pull a bow any further than what it takes to see where it needs correction. Good advice. Steve
-
the worst day bow building is still better than the best day workin.
you aint breaking you aint making
keep ur head up.
later
n2
-
First of all, a BIG 'AMEN' to what N2 just said and secondly, are you 100% positive that that is American Elm? If so, was it a dead tree? I ask because I have never seen an elm of any kind do that without first taking a jaw-dropping ammount of set, and I don't see any set really on the limb that did not break in your pic. I guess there is the possibility that you had it too dry, but even then, I can't imagine good elm breaking so clean like that. I don't even see any little splinter fibers that should have popped up before she let go. One way or another, it wasn't your fault. Sometimes you just get ahold of some crappy wood. Just forget all about it, look for some better wood and jump right back in! Whatever that wood was, I wouldn't use any more of it, like you said.
CP
-
They is no sucha thing! :) Jawge
-
Bummer :( if your worried about the rest of the staves you could back them to be safe.
-
Both were live, healthy trees cut last spring,given 2 weeks to stabilize,bows layed out,and put on reflex forms for a month.After another month,I attempted to begin tillering,but fought moisture problems all summer.How about some kind of fungus growth in the wood?(Nothing was apparent on the exterior surfaces of the staves).They were both about 64", and 1 1/2" at the fades ,out to mid limb.The tiller on each was right on the money,and they set very little. One thing I noticed about the elm in particular,it split very easy.Every other elm I have cut has been a job to get split.I just don't see how they could have been too dry,with our humidity,and the heat treating was done when each stave was taken to brace height during tillering.The cherry broke almost identical to the elm. God Bless
-
I've had wood blow in pieces like that when it was too dry. And pulled just a hair too far. When I did, it was after I had already pulled it farther and the moisture had changed. And When I pulled it, something said "this doesn't feel right, stop" and I didn't.
-
Hope you were on a rope and pully and not a t stick. Can you imagine being under that duo as you lock it into the next hole on the stick and have'em explode in your face? Gives one pause. Looks like these staves were "pushed" either with design flaws, too much reflex, too much heat treating, or drawing too far too fast. Looking at where they broke (mid limb) it sure seems like they were drawn too far too fast. I am an expert on stave breaks. Trust me. LOL. :) Jawge
-
Last Aug I was working a board bow for a friend to use on our trad weekend. It was a narrow, light, bend in the handle board bow. It was tillered out and shot for a couple of weeks. Guess what I did? I strung it backwards and broke it. Stupid. Like I don't know the back of a bow. Then I picked up another board ( a gift from a friend) and started working it. There was a tiny pin knot I didn't see until I was done with long string tillering. The stave broke there. 2 broken bows in one day. That's my record. Jawge
-
Yeah, there was something wrong with the wood I say. Did any of the elm look pinkish or have a light red tint to it? Even bone dry elm should not let go like that. Actually the cherry shouldn't either unless the tiller was bad, which I'm sure it wasn't. And even red elm (which splits fairly easy for an elm) doesn't split all that easily. I've never seen a white elm that wasn't a bastard to split.
If it were me, I'd chalk it up to junk wood, chop 'em up for the campfire and find new wood. I don't know about anyone else, but when a tree yields me wood that acts like that, and breaks that easily, I junk out all the wood I have from that tree. I won't play guessing games with wood once I see it is faulty like that.
CP
-
Dude, two in a row and back to back. Bad juju!
Use more wood on the next ones. That's the thing about bowyerin', you gotta cross the line sometimes to find it.
-
Broke my last two here aswell :(
General rushing, bending too soon after heat treating, not paying attention to both width and thickness in limbs. Also trying to push the design on a stave that i wanted as opposed to allowing the stave to dictate the design. All my fault and i too have now hit a dry patch and i am still yet to get back in the saddle :(
-
Hate it when that happens...
-
George,neither of these were on the tree.I was drawing them both when they blew.The top limb of the elm came over my shoulder and that was it. The cherry slapped me on the cheek bone pretty good,but no blood, ;D Thanks for the opinions fella's. God Bless
-
2 in one day. I'd be using a bicycle helmet and safety glasses when first shooting and I'm not kidding. I've had around 5 let go at full draw. A couple smacked me up side the head and should have knocked some sense in me. It is an experience. I try to stack the odds in my favor and work on a rope and pulley and bring the bow to full draw or close to it several times before shooting. I draw 26 in. I tiller to draw weight at 25 in and ease it to 26 in as I break it in while shooting. No pun intended. :) Jawge
-
Pete it sucks to break one let alone two but i say if you got 9 more i'd dig in and surely you can tweak here and there and get some shooters!!JMO But i say go for It!break em til ya make one ;)
Boy, do I know that feelin! :'(
But then I do have GOOD supply of red oak fire wood. ;D ;D
Ron