Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: wood on August 14, 2010, 08:22:38 pm

Title: Glue question
Post by: wood on August 14, 2010, 08:22:38 pm
Has anyone used Titebond III to sinew back a bow? If so, how did it work out. I have use hide glue with rawhide but was wondering if the Titebond would be better because it is waterproof.  ???
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: JW_Halverson on August 14, 2010, 08:35:26 pm
I have read from other people's posting that they have used various wood glues with the sinew, but I am not convinced that they are going to get all the benefits of the sinew without the use of the hide glue.  There was another post recently on using artificial sinew and one of the replies went into detail on how the hide glue and the sinew worked hand-in-hand.  After all, they are virtually made up of the same proteins and such.

When I do a sinew job, I finish it out with two coats of hide glue over the sinew once it has dried a few days.  It fills what little I get for gaps and makes a nice smooth base for whatever goes on next (rawhide, snakeskin, fresh air).  How about doing your sinew job with hide glue and then at the end, cover it with a few coats of TBIII for waterproofing?
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: shamus on August 14, 2010, 10:04:39 pm
With sinew you want hide glue. 
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: osage outlaw on August 14, 2010, 10:57:37 pm
I read a great article about the difference in hide glue and wood glue for sinew, but I can't remember what book it was in.  I guess that doesn't help much.  I use knox gellatin hide glue.  It's cheap and easy.
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: adb on August 14, 2010, 11:13:04 pm
Another thumbs up for knox gelatin.
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: JW_Halverson on August 14, 2010, 11:38:57 pm
Always close at hand at your nearest grocery store.  Unless it sets in the fridge for a few weeks, it never smells up the house.  And if you got extra left over from the sinewing job, add some sugar and fruit juice and call it Knox Blox!
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: walkabout on August 15, 2010, 01:22:06 am
i believe the benefits of hide glue over wood glues is that hide glue itself shrinks, along with the sinew. wood glue does not shrink to the same extent. also, hide glue is very chemically compatible with sinew, as wood glue is something diferent. with that said, TB3 is waterproof, and i know lots of people who use it when laying down sinew. i think its just a matter of preference really.
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: Pat B on August 15, 2010, 01:26:08 am
To get the full benefit of the sinew you need to use hide glue. As a backing TBIII and sinew works well but not with the same benefits as with hide glue.
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: wood on August 15, 2010, 09:17:38 am
You guys have convinced me. I'll stick with the hide glue.

Would like to hear more about using gelatin. Sounds a lot cheaper that buying regular hide glue.
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: walkabout on August 15, 2010, 11:49:58 am
i believe the proper method is 1 part gelatin powder 2 parts water, although someone else may chime in with how they do it. just heat and use. you want it to the consistency of warm syrup. there has been some debate over gelatin, because it may very well made with bone and other things rather than hide, however it seems to perform just as normal hide glue does.
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: Justin Snyder on August 15, 2010, 01:18:46 pm
I have always been amused by this conversation. Sinew takes weeks to fully cure.  If TB III is waterproof and you use it on sinew once the glue is dry but all of the moisture hasn't left the sinew wouldn't it stop the sinew from curing all the way?
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: walkabout on August 15, 2010, 01:43:09 pm
i dont think it would stop it from fully curing, however i would think it wouldnt allow the sinew to completely pull back upon itself, which causes the reflex in sinewed bows. just a theory, but i think i did read an article somewhere about it and wood glue doesnt allow it to shrink completely as hide glue does.
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: El Destructo on August 15, 2010, 02:22:16 pm
Titebond is awesome for what it is made for...Gluing Wood...Knox is great for fletching Arrows...hafting Knives...and keeping your Hair and Nails in great Shape...but I will never use it again for Sinew Backing a Bow....just does not work as well as Hide Glue does...just doesn't have all the properties of Hide Glue...Hide Glue is just that...Hide Glue...Knox is Collagen Glue...Hide Glue is made from Hide Scraps...Sinew and tendon Scraps....Knox is made from Bone and Joint Collagens...both work great...but I will spend the extra and get a top quality Luthiers Hide Glue...and save the Knox for my Wives Finger Nails....JMO......... ;)
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: Marc St Louis on August 15, 2010, 10:27:12 pm
Titebond is awesome for what it is made for...Gluing Wood...Knox is great for fletching Arrows...hafting Knives...and keeping your Hair and Nails in great Shape...but I will never use it again for Sinew Backing a Bow....just does not work as well as Hide Glue does...just doesn't have all the properties of Hide Glue...Hide Glue is just that...Hide Glue...Knox is Collagen Glue...Hide Glue is made from Hide Scraps...Sinew and tendon Scraps....Knox is made from Bone and Joint Collagens...both work great...but I will spend the extra and get a top quality Luthiers Hide Glue...and save the Knox for my Wives Finger Nails....JMO......... ;)

Hmm.  Would make the sinew backed reflexed recurves I made many years ago a fluke?  I think not.  I used gelatine on all of them and all spit arrows out at 180+ fps with 10 GPP arrows.
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: bcbull on August 16, 2010, 12:02:35 am
ill just stick with the best piano makers hide glue i can buy  my 2 cents brock
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: El Destructo on August 16, 2010, 02:45:40 am
BC....Luthiers and Piano Glue is all top quality Hide Glue...and it would be safe to say that either would be just fine...as Keith Davis ( islandpiper ) He builds and rebuilds musical Instruments...and knows good Hide Glue from Bad

As for Knox...Hey...if thats the route you want to take...go for it...I just gave my true feelings on the subject...anyone and everyone is entitled to their own opinions..I have never had a Bow backing lift with Hide Glue...and I have with Knox...may have been a bad batch...may have been a problem with the way I used it...but either way..."I"...will not use it again...that does not mean "you" can't...... ;)
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: kylerprochaska on August 16, 2010, 05:24:37 am
I don't have near the experience with sinew as most of the guys her have but I have had luck with Titebond liquid hide glue...it hasn't failed me yet
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: Marc St Louis on August 16, 2010, 10:20:04 am
I've never had a backing lift with gelatin, unless I wanted to lift it.  That said I do use hide glue now but if knox is what you can get then don't worry about it, it will work.
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: Stingray45 on August 16, 2010, 11:42:34 am
I believe Titebond makes a hide glue.
Title: Re: Glue question
Post by: Cacatch on August 16, 2010, 02:57:15 pm
I've only sinew-backed 3 bows and used Knox on all 3. It never lifted, and I found it to be very strong and to cure very hard and durable, but I must admit none of the 3 ever pulled into the slightest bit of reflex. I always wondered if I had used actual hide glue if they would have pulled into some reflex.  That's my input.

CP