Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: cryostallion on August 12, 2010, 11:17:23 am
-
well, i've just cut down my first tree with the intention of making many longbows. it's a really nice white ash about 10" diameter. i roughly split up the logs last night after felling into about 80" lengths, quartered them (some i went ahead and split further), sealed the ends with glue. now i think i may have gotten ahead of myself, because i feel intimidated by it all :-\
so i figured i'd ask some pros for guidance, so i don't screw this up and ruin this perfect bow wood. since some of these staves are still rather large, i'd like to know exactly how much more i can/should split them up safely. i'd also like to dry them correctly obviously, and i think i live in a very forgiving climate for that (west-central massachusetts) where it's not too humid nor too dry.
i am planning on removing the bark today, and after that i should seal up the backs, right?
what i am most concerned with is the general proportions i need to get the staves down to without going too far.
keeping in mind that i'd like to make various weights ranging from about 40lbs on up into warbow territory.
anyone's input is very very welcome.
thanks,
pat riley
(http://a.imageshack.us/img203/8153/img1838z.th.jpg) (http://img203.imageshack.us/i/img1838z.jpg/)
(http://a.imageshack.us/img204/9241/img1839v.th.jpg) (http://img204.imageshack.us/i/img1839v.jpg/)
(http://a.imageshack.us/img217/3360/img1836p.th.jpg) (http://img217.imageshack.us/i/img1836p.jpg/)
(http://a.imageshack.us/img64/1161/img1837cb.th.jpg) (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/img1837cb.jpg/)
-
Nice haul there ! I wouldn't go any further with reducing them for now, seel the ends and back after you take the bark off. You could take one and reduce it to near bow dimentions, it will dry much quicker maybe strap it down to a 2x4 I have found if you remove to much wood to early the stave have a tendency to warp and twist.
Good luck !
-
hi john, thanks for the reply!
a couple of these pieces are a LOT bigger than others, such as in the first pic- the third from left with dirt all over the end. i just measured it and its 9 inches across. also in the second picture you can see the one in the middle is waaaay bigger than the one next to it. i was a little conservative in my 10" diameter estimate, as i just measured across a log from way up the tree that i was going to split for billets and its 9" diameter itself! i'll go measure the stump today but i'd now say it's at LEAST 12".
i am going to take your advice and just start with one (like the smallest); reduce it down to near-bow dimension and tool around with that while i let all the rest dry.
do you think if i split the two really big ones again it would hurt?
thanks again!
pat
-
Pat, I would go ahead and split the 2 bigger ones.
-
Well, you've done fine so far! Now you just have to be patient, and let them season. I cut some similar ash staves, and they've been seasoning now for over a year, and I will start working them soon.
-
Around 3 inches in width is good. Jawge
-
ok, so i'll split the two bigger ones.
and about seasoning, from what i've read by tim baker, there are ways to drastically reduce the amount of time to dry. seeing how i have a lot of potential bows here, i was thinking i'd try some of those methods out on some wood while letting other pieces just come down naturally. best of both worlds right?
here's another doozy i bet you guys can't answer ;)
is this the right layer to go down to when stripping the bark? it kinda feels like what the wood wants me to do.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Around 3 inches in width is good. Jawge
right on, thanks!
-
You want to get down to the first growth ring just under the bark. How thick are the growth rings?
-
Looks right to me
-
You want to get down to the first growth ring just under the bark. How thick are the growth rings?
ok, i think that's where i am at.
the rings toward the outside are 2-2.5mm, some toward the middle as much as 5 mm.
-
With so much to play with you could rough out a nice flat bow, it would dry quite quickly if you put it somewhere warm and airy, you could be tillering it in a month or two.
I've got one work in progress on my 'Bowyers Diary' (slap that into google and you'll find me)
Del
-
if you rough a stave out to about 3/4" thick and full width (say 2" on what would be the limbs) and strap it to a 2x4 it will dry quicker and be less prone to checking/splitting. this is similar to what tim baker says in TBB the thickest part should be where your handle is going to be(roughly 2") make sure to seal the end grain in what will be the handle too, aside from that only seal the back and very ends. great haul there though should keep you making bows for some time.
-
With so much to play with you could rough out a nice flat bow, it would dry quite quickly if you put it somewhere warm and airy, you could be tillering it in a month or two.
yea man that's what i'm thinkin!
i'll definitely check out your blog. thanks del
-
if you rough a stave out to about 3/4" thick and full width (say 2" on what would be the limbs) and strap it to a 2x4 it will dry quicker and be less prone to checking/splitting. this is similar to what tim baker says in TBB the thickest part should be where your handle is going to be(roughly 2") make sure to seal the end grain in what will be the handle too, aside from that only seal the back and very ends. great haul there though should keep you making bows for some time.
thanks,
i'm going to give this a go.
it was the first mature tree i ever cut down so i kinda felt bad. hopefully i'll get some good bows from it!
-
From the looks of that log it has some twist in it. You can see how the ridges of the bark barber pole around the log from left to right. Did the other wood split straight?
Also, the bark should just peel off easily and the cambium should come off with it. Be sure to seal the back!
-
From the looks of that log it has some twist in it. You can see how the ridges of the bark barber pole around the log from left to right. Did the other wood split straight?
hi pat,
some of the staves have a little twist, but it didn't seem too bad to me, or at least not bad enough to render it un-useable...BUT what do i know? :-\
what do you think i should do with one that has a little twist in it?
i just finished up for the day; all of a sudden it was as if someone rang the mosquito dinner bell.
i got hasty with the hatchet and gouged into the next growth ring on a couple staves. good staves too, as far as i can tell, with some reflex. is there anything i can do about that? also i pulled some bark and it pulled a strip up from the next ring down, which was really strange. i've attached pictures of both.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
My dear, you've hit gold. Thats a wonderful haul of wood you've got there and I've no doubt that you'll make plenty of fine bows from them. About the ring situation, you could probably work on chasing the next ring, but I aint the best to be taking advice from seeing as I've never actually successfully chased a ring ;). But look on the bright side, you've got plenty and I mean plenty of wood to play with. I'm actually quite jealous, never worked with ash before. Best of luck and remember, patience is KEY.
-Ian
-
thanks ian ;D
storing up for the winter, hehe.
on closer inspection, a few of these staves have a little twist or a turn towards one end, so i guess i'll cut em up for billets? they will definitely be useable in that form!
i am bummed about the one with the long thin gash pictured above, because it's so nice and straight and perfect otherwise. i'm really confused about how that happened because by that point i had stopped using my hatchet to remove the outer bark and was just using my knife, which couldn't have made a cut like that! i know i never put the point in the stave!
i was hoping i wouldn't have to chase the next ring :P but if there's no other choice then so be it!
-
Looks like a nice haul and also looks like you done a new job getting them ready to store.I wouldn't
worry about the twist,you can take that out with dry heat when you get them down closer to bow size. You can also split the belly off right where the heart wood starts to help it dry quicker.I usually leave them a few months then split them smaller.With wood with straight grain like that I pop a line and cut them with a bandsaw about 2 inches wide,You can save a lot of wood that way.
Pappy
-
OOPs don't see any heart wood after looking again but you can still take a belly split off the thicker ones,they will usually split right down the growth ring,and don't need anything but a little cleaning up of the ring. :) :) That is what we call the greed factor. ;) ;D ;D
Pappy
-
Looks like a nice haul and also looks like you done a new job getting them ready to store.I wouldn't
worry about the twist,you can take that out with dry heat when you get them down closer to bow size. You can also split the belly off right where the heart wood starts to help it dry quicker.I usually leave them a few months then split them smaller.With wood with straight grain like that I pop a line and cut them with a bandsaw about 2 inches wide,You can save a lot of wood that way.
Pappy
dry heat, huh? i'll have to look into that.
when you say you wait a few months to split smaller, do you mean before you split to this size?
if anyone has a solution for those gouges i pictured besides cutting it down to that ring, i'm all ears.
oh and i think i figured out why that long strip came off with the bark. when ii woke this morning and went to finish debarking, the staves had been sitting in the barn all night where the temp got down to the 50s. i started on another log and the bark was a lot harder to get off, and as a result i pulled up 2 more strips like the one pictured >:( :'(
live and learn, as they say.
had to leave for the weekend, but when i get back home to finish the debarking, i'm sticking them in the hot shower for awhile first!
-
You can always back them with linen or something like that, maybe rawhide.
-
You can always back them with linen or something like that, maybe rawhide.
i was wondering that, but was unsure if that was sufficient to make it not break.
-
Don't feel bad, trees are a renewable resource. They eventually rot away.
-
All this worry about a gouge ? Not too worry tho, just work that growth ring down the entire length. A( draw shave) or spoke shave would be in order at this point. I would seal the ends with paraffin or shellac and cheap white glue on the back side of the staves. I Like your choice of wood and what you have done so far. Be patient , you will have some nice bows. Denny
-
Don't feel bad, trees are a renewable resource. They eventually rot away.
all of this does, doesn't it? :D
-
All this worry about a gouge ? Not too worry tho, just work that growth ring down the entire length. A( draw shave) or spoke shave would be in order at this point. I would seal the ends with paraffin or shellac and cheap white glue on the back side of the staves. I Like your choice of wood and what you have done so far. Be patient , you will have some nice bows. Denny
just wondering if anyone had any bright solutions BESIDES cutting down another ring.
you know, ancient chinese secrets, things like that.
the ends were sealed right after i bucked it to length, and the backs sealed as soon as the bark was off, thanks.
i did just read another thread where a dude said DON'T use white glue on the backs because it's a pain to get off later. alas, too late for me.
-
the reflex they gain drying will probably pull out while tillering anyway. when i quick dry i set 2" blocks under the tips and clamp the handle down, it helps to keep them from twisting during drying. lots of people dont find a need to do this but it will help minimize what you have to heat correct later. in TBB they said"staves that take on this type of reflex during drying are simply"pretending"."
-
Chryo, I have about 60 staves sealed with white glue and a light scraper removes the glue quite easily. I use elmers and others. Now shellac would be a different story. As to cheat mother nature not chasing another growth ring , good luck. I tried, It didn't work for me, but maybe it will work for you, Dean Torges said that to me once. I was asking if red oak would work for backing material. He was right.Denny
-
Chryo, I have about 60 staves sealed with white glue and a light scraper removes the glue quite easily. I use elmers and others. Now shellac would be a different story. As to cheat mother nature not chasing another growth ring , good luck. I tried, It didn't work for me, but maybe it will work for you, Dean Torges said that to me once. I was asking if red oak would work for backing material. He was right.Denny
then i'll be sticking with elmer's!
hey here's another one for you though: i got home after the weekend during which my staves were sitting in the barn. before i left everything looked fine, and i just went to check on them, and several have severe checking going on in the backs. i did the exact same thing with them all- split, stripped bark, and painted glue on- and as far as i can tell it's just at random. some that developed the checking are really thick and some are thin. i think it was pretty muggy over the weekend. has this ever happened to you?
i moved them into my cool, dry basement.
-
the gouge shouldnt be too much trouble, rawhide backing would provide some insurance if you cant chase a ring, although i would try to get the gouge out as much as possible with scraping, sanding,etc.
-
If the sap wood is too wet it will thin the glue. I always wait on white wood 24 to 36 hours before I seal. Now osage and black locust will check in that time, so I don't wait on them. Yes this has happened to me .. In the future Take a brush and paraffin the surface and dip the ends, This will last forever.good luck Denny