Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: recurve shooter on July 21, 2010, 03:55:57 am
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sup guys. had one heck of an incident today. me, my best friend Ian, and his little cousin loaded up to go to some folks we knows property to shoot some. we had got out to tell the land owners we were there, and were just getting in the truck to drive back to the field to shoot when Blake showed up. Blake is like 24, he's an ex navy rescue swimmer, and he always has some fun firearms to play with. he hopped out with a Llama, a Spanish WWII, 32 semi auto. we checked it out and Ian asked if it shot, and Blake popped off a shot at a stump, then pointed it at the ground to uncock it. i guess the hammer slipped out of his thumb, cuz it went off.
Ian looked at his leg, then looked up, wide eyed, and calmly stated "you just shot me in the leg!" (OK it wasn't exactly calmly) we thought he was messin with us, but that proved to be untrue when we saw the bullet hole in his jeans, which were very quickly turning into red jeans. there was the initial freakout that lasted about ten seconds, then Blake got him layed down and got the bleeding stopped, and 911 was called. by the time the cops got there we were all laughing and making fun of eachother (better than being all up tight right?). I'm sure the cops found that to be a little strange. the ambulance took him to the hospital and we got him checked out.
so here's the summary. the bullet hit the gravel first, because it was pointed down, and ricocheted up into Ian's right leg, about halfway between his ankle and knee in the flesh of the calf to the inside of the bone, and somehow ended up in his heal between the Achilles tendon and the bone. the doctors looked at it and xrayed it and just doped him up, bandaged it, and sent him home.
no one was really at fault, it was just kind of a freak accident. but when something like that happens it kinda makes you realize how easily that bulled could have done ALOT more damage than it did. we just thank god and try to get goofy over here healed up. after all, we never got to shoot the new black powder 44. ;)
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My own story of the same type of careless incident.
I was rifle hunting with my 700 Rem on a local mgt area one morning when what I thought was a buck came cruising through the thick stuff about 100 yds away. I would see horns, flip the safety off then not be sure and flip the safety back on. I did this over and over a half a dozen times and finally let the deer walk.
I walked back to camp where everyone gathered in a circle around me to hear my story. My gun had a floor plate release in the trigger guard so I pushed it with my thumb to release my ammo and BOOM. I had lost track of my safety off and on switching and left it off.
The guy in front of me instantly put his hands to his face and had blood coming out between his fingers. The gun discharged into the ground but a ricochet had hit him in the lip. Turned out to be superficial but there is no feeling on earth worse than knowing your carelessness has caused an injury to your friend, my heart felt like it stopped when I saw blood all over his face.
It could have been much, much worse had my gun been elevated even slightly. I haven't walked into camp with a loaded gun since and that was 35 years ago
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I don't mean be controversial but here are my thoughts on the "accident." In the Army we used to call them "accidental discharges" but after we had enough people shot we began calling them "negligent discharges" and all of them result in an investigation and usually a letter of reprimand follows at a minimum. We had two Soldiers shot at chow on my first tour to Iraq - folks jumping out of the back of a vehicle with their weapon not on safe. Shot is shot and dead is dead. Muzzle awareness is critical. Even when pointing the weapon at the ground you have to make sure it's not in the direction of someone if you are clearing it. Most ricochets continue in the direction of the muzzle so you can't be too careful. You're right, you guys were lucky. I would bet your friend is super conscious of the muzzle from now on. If we could only get guys that nervous about the muzzle before it happens to them the first time.
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I lived with a rifle for about a year when I was a young man. I slept in the dirt and the rain with it, I carried it every where I went. Always with a round in the chamber. All the people around me did the same thing. We had only one accident where two Jarheads were screwing around and one cut loose a three round burst from a M-14 auto. The Marine hit took a round in the right thigh, and a round that cut his Johnson in half and a round in the left hip. Everybody learned from that screwup. When we were underfire it was common to have to shoot within two or three feet of another grunt. At times we intentionally shot low to use the ricochets to our advantage. Glad your friend wasn't seriously hurt. Treat every gun as if it is loaded with the safety off.
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MUZZLE AWARNESS.........!!!
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Don't forget DUMBASS AWARENESS. :o
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Don't forget DUMBASS AWARENESS. :o
LMFAO
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I blew the Tip off my own Sorrel Boot when I was 8 years old with a Single Shot Mossberg 20 gauge Bolt Action Shotgun....My Dad took me Partridge Hunting back in Upper Michigan...and in Michigan...and back then if you are traveling with a Gun...the Magazine had to be out...slide locked open...the Lever Action Had to be Open...or the Bolt had to be removed...Double Barrels had to be broke open...or in two....well We were going down a dirt backroad...and there were two Pats sitting on the side of the road picking Gravel....so my Dad pulled over to the side of the road.....We snuck out the Doors....He told me....Son...put a bullet in the chamber...and get ready to shoot... So I did...then He told Me to close the Bolt....well you may see where this is going now.... ::)....He had never told Me to put the Bolt in the Gun first....So here I am ...a Bullet in the Chamber...He tells me to close the Bolt...OK...well I tell Him...Dad the Bolts not in yet....He says...well put it in....So I did...well in order to get the Bolt in a Mossberg Bolt Action Shotgun...You stick it in the Grooves...and then pull the Trigger to get the Bolt to go all the way in the Receiver...well when I dropped the Bolt in the Gun....pulled the Trigger to get it to fall down...well it fell down....and went Bang....and all I could see was Grey Felt hanging out of my Boot...and my Toes were hot....well needless to a say that was the end of my Partridge Hunt...and my Dad sold the Mossberg to a Gun Dealer...and got me a Stevens Single 410.... ;)
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Firearms must be handled with the same respect as you would handling a live rattlesnake. No, better make that a live cobra. One careless incident can lead to a lifetime of regret. Recurve Shooter, I strongly suggest you guys enroll in a hunter safety course and a firearms handling class. If you've done this already, do it again for a refresher. I'm not trying to be condescending or insulting, but a guy was shot and could have been killed. It isn't funny. You guys need to sharpen your pencils and learn how to handle firearms properly.
Buying the weapon is the easy part. Knowing how to use it properly, safely, and wisely is the hard part. If Blake was in the navy, shame on whoever trained him on weapons. Or shame on Blake if he was asleep with his eyes open in the class. When I went through U.S. Army basic training, they had guards stationed with loaded weapons behind trainees on the firing line during BRM. One wrong move with your muzzle (like sweeping those guards, other trainees and cadre with a loaded weapon) and you might find yourself shot. This impressed upon young minds the importance of firearms safety most effectively. Nothing like self-preservation and the threat of 9 grams of permanent correction to instill firearms discipline upon trainees.
More people are shot accidently by "unloaded" weapons or by people who "know what they're doing". One other observation and I'm done here. If Blake was easing the hammer down on a live round and it went off, guess what that means? Unless it had a half-cock (which many milsurp autos don't), Blake weas easing that hammer down on to a live round. Meaning the firing pin is resting on the primer. Meaning it can go off if dropped.
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Tsalagi makes a very valid point. It had been years since I had taken a firearms safety course. Heck, I'd never shot anyone, I was always safe, right?
I took the safety course again last year along with the 13 yr old kid I mentored on his first deer hunt. Guess what? I learned a lot. Then I learned some more when the KID braced me on some unsafe behavior. How safe is safe enough when it comes to deadly weapons? Bad enough that some of you have had to shoot at bad guys (and I honor and respect you for doing it, thank you), I can't imagine the horror of shooting a friend.
Same goes for our bowshooting, right?
Recurve shooter, thanks for posting the incident. I really appreciate the reminder. Hope your friend makes a full recovery.
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Old adage, "A man is known by the company he keeps." I'd think again before hanging out with a guy who shot me.....at least if he was carrying. Just my humble opinion. piper
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Nother story, this happened in the late 50s.
When I was around 12 a bunch of us boy scouts sold Christmas trees every December, along with the Christmas trees we sold bunches of mistletoe. We would look for mistletoe high in the trees along the creek banks and blast it out with a shotgun.
One of my friends had a bolt action .410 we used because of the tight pattern. On a very cold day we were on a creek bank between Norris and Clinton Tn gathering mistletoe when his gun jammed. This was the era of paper shotgun shells and swelling was sometimes a problem.
He was working the bolt back and forth with the muzzle all over the place when the gun went off, I was about 10 feet from him. The main charge passed within inches of my upper leg but I still caught 4 or 5 fliers in in my thigh. The pain was instant and very intense. I was wearing two pairs of heavy Levis and three pair of cotton long johns, could barely walk but it was very cold. I dropped trou and found the shot didn't penetrate my heavy clothes but each shot had left a tennis ball sized bruise that was already black as coal.
A very lucky day for me as I would have probably lost my leg had I taken the full load a ten feet. I didn't tell my parents about the incident.
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Even with the best safety program and vigilance, accidents can happen. Last fall, our club was having a turkey shoot. One guy was using a double percussion muzzle loading shotgun, one of those kind you ride shotgun with if you work for Wells Fargo.
I was about I guess about 20 feet back from the line, watching. I am still not certain, but I think what happened was that a piece of his wadding richoceted off the roof of the covering and came back and hit me on the right side of my neck. It felt like a yellow jacket stung me. I was lucky, it only left a small mark, which faded in time, but things can happen around firearms.
That gun, btw, is a total blasat to shoot :) I don't think it hates me anymore, too.
Dane
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I'm sorry, but wadding is like getting hit with a paintball gun, lead kills, even when it ricochets. I work for engineers, seems the word they hate most is "luck" or the other one,"S--- happens". Those two words aren't needed with proper training, planning, and focus.
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Im really so sorry it wasnt deadlier there Mullet. Next time, I wont post unless I loose an eye or something. Sorry you missed the point.
Guess the kid who got shot in the leg wasnt lucky. Guess Eric wasnt lucky, as well.
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No need to lose an eye, Dane. I guess you missed the point also. Usually when someone gets shot accidently it's because someone wasn't paying attention to the barrel of the gun, or paying attention to where the guy with the gun was pointing it. Usually lack of gun safety training with one or both parties. If you have a range where stuff is richoceting and hitting spectators 20' away, it sounds like a pretty unsafe setup.JMO
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When around firearms you must maintain muzzle discipline at all times and everyone , shooter or not, should maintain muzzle awareness.
Sorry you had a bad experience but happy to know you are learning from it and willing to share it and bring awareness to others.
Jeff
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Yes muzzle awareness is critical at all times. The vast majority of these incidents could easily be prevented. Even when clearing any weapon always keep it pointed at the target. I see no need to uncock a semi auto handgun with a round in the chamber when target shooting. Drop the mag and then eject the round all while keeping it pointed downrange.
Alan
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thanks for all the replies guys. we goin wendsday to get the thing cut out.
And hell yes we are gunna be paranoid with out guns from now on. :-X
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I had a nice conversation with Ian on the phone last week. He told me all about the incident and then began to tell me about a new pistol he wants for Christmas. His mother was in the back ground and said, "WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT ANY NEW GUNS RIGHT NOW!"
:) :) :)
Good luck with the slug removal Ian. That copper jacket could get pretty nasty left in there.
piper
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OK, how did the extraction go? did Ian get the slug back or did the State take it? I think we'll just call him Gimpy from now on.
piper
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Well, I'll weigh in fellas. I don't want to beat a dead horse but it does sound like poor firearm handling. Muzzle direction must ALWAYS be your primary concern and ricochets must be taken into account. if you decock properly, your thumb should be between the hammer and frame when you let off and ease down. A slip wont be a problem if done right. I'm sure we are all glad it was not more serious. Hopefully, lesson learned.
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hey guys this is first time back on the forum in a while but just thought id let yall know im walking again
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Glad you are alright Ian. But I'm still going to give you crap. Have you been on Restriction or something? ;)
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mullet what do you mean by restriction?
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He means ....Grounded Son....Grounded.......... ;D