Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: chuckp on July 04, 2010, 11:00:09 am
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I've made about 6 hickories lately. They shoot and look good. I know hickory is a sponge wood and needs to be dry.
Short of storing the bow in a hot box, or air conditioning, will heat treating and backing the bow prevent set?
I'm wondering if heat treating the bow with dry heat, give it some reflex, and back the bow with rawhide to keep the reflex spring in the bow.
I understand the bow will still soak up moisture, but will the spring and reflex stay in the bow?
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chuck, the backing won't do any good. rawhide is a strong backing, but it won't hold reflex. You could use sinew, a couple of layers will hold the reflex and give you a snappy bow. Heat treating will also help with the string follow, but not as much as just having dry wood. For the easiest solution go ahead and heat treat the belly. I live in east tex where its pretty humid most of the year and my hickorys have a modest amount of string follow. they still shoot well, a night in a hotbox at 100 degrees wouldn't hurt every once in awhile.
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doesn't rawhide provide any elasticity? I know sinew does.
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I'm wondering if heat treating the bow with dry heat, give it some reflex, and back the bow with rawhide to keep the reflex spring in the bow.
I understand the bow will still soak up moisture, but will the spring and reflex stay in the bow?
My Answer is NO.....the Rawhide Backing will absorb moisture about as much as the Hickory will...so will Sinew....and when it absorbs moisture it will get stretchier...so it a lose ...lose situation
I would heat temper the Belly after I got the desired Reflex in the Bow....seal it well and keep Her dry....and as for Backing Hickory....it's tough to beat Bamboo....jmo
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Man I am a slow Typer....never seen Sulphurs post........... ::)
Where you at in East Texas Sulphur? I am at The Top O Texas............. >:D
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I am about 80 east of Dallas. I grew up in that neck of the woods though. Pampa Tx. Being in east texas is like a whole other state for me. trees and trees and not being able to see 50 miles any directions. Oh and no wind to speak of, dang your making me home sick >:D
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Never seen Texas, but I don't think I could live anywhere where the ground if flat and there are no trees. I think if the wind constantly blows, it would literally drive me nuts!
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Texas isn't necessarily what we see in the cowboy movies. If I'm not mistaken Texas has about as diverse terrain features as any other state. From mountains(hills ::) ) to desert to wetlands, trees and no tree areas, salt marshes to fresh water river swamps.
Poor hickory gets a bum rap because it is more hygroscopic than most other woods. IMO it is still one of the best bow woods out there. Just like many other things in life, if the time or conditions ain't right, don't use it! ;)
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How much set? Jawge
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I agree with, Pat.
If you are having issues with Hickory your probally not getting the stave dry enough to start with (most often the case) or storing the bows in a high RH environment after. Any wooden bow needs to be stored properly, the stave dry to start with then sealed properly afterwards. Hickory will tell on ya if you don't do these things, but so will a bunch of others. There are other woods more conductive to high RH environments, Osage and Locust comes to mind.
My bow rack is in the driest room in the house, store my staves in the driest location possible and seal each one best I can upon completion. The humidity here is pretty high as well, but I've learned to deal with it and my Hickory bows are just fine. ;D
I'm still trying to find a white wood that's better, but I'm still have a bunch of woods to go. ;)
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Heat treating hickory is one way to help it deter reabsorbing moisture. I'm finishing out a new hunting bow, 67" ntn, 2" wide for 10" tapering in a concave line to 3/8" or so tips. It pulls about 75# or so at 29.5" and shoots hard and straight. I didn't temper in any reflex, but even without a finish and after a couple hours of shooting in high heat and humidity, it was standing at 1" or string follow/set. I normally had trouble with alot of set too, but I built a hot box and all my hickory staves get baked there. Until I actually am putting a finish on, I don't leave them out of the box too long. After that, several coats of water proof finish and repeated waxing should help :)
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chuck my expirence is its easy to blame moisture in hickory for its set , i live in a high humidity area and what ive found is when my tillering skills improved and i didnt overstress the bow during that process they started coming out at zero or low set (less than an inch). i would be interested in seeing some pics of your bows
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sulphur, I'm in the same area as you (only an hour away from your location) and I know what you mean about humidity. I work with hickory mostly and I try to play it safe with it. What I mean is I give the stave as long as possible to dry but then when I'm ready to work with a piece, I store it indoors all the time. I work with it outdoors, but then as soon as my day is done with it, I bring it back into the more controlled environment in my house. That way, I don't give it adequate time to change much to the high humidity outdoors. When it is a finished bow, it will be stained and sealed (usually with poly) and stored in the house anyway, so I treat it that way during the tillering process.
I don't know if this is sound science, but it seems to work for me as most of my bows have taken less than 3" or usually 2" of set.
-Prof
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"I would heat temper the Belly after I got the desired Reflex in the Bow....seal it well and keep Her dry....and as for Backing Hickory....it's tough to beat Bamboo....jmo"
How would that work out? I mean backing a hickory with bamboo. Would backing a hickory with bamboo, tempering it, prevent any significant set? If I have to build a hot box for my bows I will, but I hope I don't have to.
Maybe I'll name my Hickories Dracula, When I need them I'll pull them out of their coffins (Hot box)
I've built 6 nice bows this summer, all hickories. Two or three hunters. I'm new at this and don't really know what to expect this fall as far as hunting with them and humidity. Maybe I'm worrying about nothing.
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What's the average relative humidity in your area? Sorry if I missed it in the post.
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I don't really know, I'm in N.E. Pa.
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Ok. This is the average for a town like Scranton in NE, PA.
Average Morning Relative Humidity 83%
Average Afternoon Relative Humidity 54%
Average RH 68%
This will yield an equilibrium moisture content of 12.5% in your bows if exposed to the same RH environment as your outside surroundings over time. The amount of time to reach equilibrium is a guest based on how well the wood is sealed to start with. Your current environment, if hunting close by to where you live, sealing the bow properly to prevent the transfer of moisture should leave you protected. If stored in reasonable conditions, say at 50% RH around 70 degrees (AC- air conditioning) should leave you around 9.2% which is fine. Hope this helps and stop the worry and build more bows.
I take my hickory staves down to 6.5% before I work on them, then store inside in a dry environment (I live in KY). Its not a bad idea to buy humidity ga. at a place like Walmart (a few dollars) just to see where you're at. You can predict the moisture content of any wood by knowing the temp. and rh of a given environment. This is not only for Hickory, any wooden bow. All bows need to be well kept and the moisture content of wood is a key variable.
Hope this helps.
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Sure does help gmc thanks. It does open up a few questions though
What do you consider protected? about 6 coats of tru oil, spar marine varnish?
Would bamboo backing and tempering be helpful to prevent string set in a semi-humid climate like mine?
Should I consider a hot box, I don't have ac.?
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well the more coats of finish the more it will slow the hygroscopic action of hickory
but it also work the opposite way too
it will also slow the release of moisture once it gains it
personally when i make a hick bow(i live in mn )i get them as dry as possible before and durring working them into a bow
i store my staves in the garage rafters year round.i bring what i want to work on in the house.
i have a room in the basement that i keep a dehumidifier in,and its set to 40%.
the stave stays there for a month,then i get it roughed out,and it sits for a couple of weeks, and floor tillered and it sits again,and then i make a bow out of it.
by time i put the finish on they are dry,not sure on the moisture content.
i usually put about 12-15 coats of tung oil on them
it gives a furniture type finish,very durable and the more coats you put on it the more it protects from moisture
it even states that on the can ;)
draw back is,its a furniture type finish so its got some gloss.
but that can be taken down with a real light brushing of xxxx steel wool on the last couple of coats
my last few hick bows have taken les than 1.5" of set
dont know if its the process i use,or if my tillering is getting better :-\
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Chuck:
What I consider "sealing" is a waterproof type finish, so to speak. You will never completely seal a bow no matter what you use but some finishes will slow the moisture transfer rate more effectively than others. Now there are many out there to choose from, but with Hickory I use the less popular, Shellac. I only use it on Hickory because Hickory doesn't stain well and I want to keep with a natural finish holding the wood as close as possible to its natural color without staining it to something its not. I've never been one to change the color of wood on my bows (a finish should compliment wood). Shellac is good a insulator used widely in the electrical field for wiring but no doubt any poly finish (what you've already mentioned is better, spar and such), I use the amber color shellac on my hickory bows. True-oil I can't comment on because I've never used it but I can tell you that its one of the most popular on this forum. True Oil for Hickory, I don't know.
Back to the humidity problem at hand. There are always options, I can offer up a few short-term solutions and then longer term at the end. Short term, if you can't pull moisture from the air you will need to raise the temperature in the bows environment. It would take 140/ 150 degrees to lower moisture content in your hickory bows to 10% at your current rh level. It would take somewhere around 10 days to achieve this, just my estimate. With a lower rh, some air circulation that a hot box provides you could do it faster. The attic is always an option and the trunk of a car but above the 140/150 is not recommended. Buy a humidity gage and find the driest place you have to store your bows.
Longterm, if you can't control the environment use a wood that performs well at that humidity level, Osage and Locust come to mind.
I now nothing about bambo other than its makes a great arrow and will no doubt handle moisture better than Hickory.
Hope this helps.