Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Frode on June 04, 2010, 01:07:14 am
-
Hi all,
I was asked if it was possible to make a wood "longbow" for a local Renaissance Faire this fall, to be used by someone portraying Robin Hood. Money is an issue, so a genuine yew ELB is pretty much out of the question, but I'm wondering if a credible, good shooting model couldn't be made with a hickory sapwood backing, say hickory/maple, or is there a better combination? I have access to some nearly quartersawn hickory sap wood with really straight grain, and I'd probably stain the belly wood, unless it was close to the desired color naturally. I can't get a hold of any yew locally that is suitable (great for table tops, scary for bows).
Admittedly, this is theater, but the actor is an archer, and the bow does have to perform.
Your thoughts are greatly appreciated,
Frode
-
hit the lumber yard, maybe hic backed ipe or jatoba although they may be kinda dark but theyll work. or maybe you can purchase an eastern red cedar stave since they arent as expensive as yew, and when finished they look pretty similar. just some thoughts. good luck frode.
-
Check out 3rivers warbow. Real simple I think its made from red oak or hickory! Either is a decent choice. Go for it and make one! You will feel good to have a bow u made.
AA
-
Just do a Hickory selfbow, no backing. simple, look good, cheep and they shoot great.
I make mine with self knocks too.The most expensive part will be the Flemish string.The Hickory takes on some set.... no big deal.
which ren-faiir?
-
hickory(sapwood) backed red oak(heartwood) perhaps?
-
Lemonwood with hickory backing. A guy in England, Richard Head, makes those kind of longbows, and they have a bit of the appearance of sapwood and heartwood yew the way he staines them.
Dane
-
Here in England, a common cheaper alternative is Hickory backed Lemonwood (Dagame). They make great bows. Actually most reinactment bows are made from Lemonwood.
-
I think an ash or elm longbow would be more authentic for portraying Robin Hood. Not all english longbows were constructed of yew, and I believe that the bandits of Sherwood used some more readily available wood!
-
yes ash makes a good bow, the denser the better for a true performer but i went and cut a white ash from the woods it was about 3.5" in diameter, it took a little over two months to fully dry out but its 72" n2n 60# at 31" draw and took 2" of set. its a good shooting bow and ash makes a very authentic elb. i think elm was used alot as well.
-
I saw a few sassafras bows at a primitive shoot that were similar to the coloring of yew with a light sapwood and dark heartwood. Plus its a light wood like yew so it really fills the hand.
-
I saw pics of a "warbow" made from Poplar posted on here some time ago. It looked like a mighty warbow but pulled failry light but performed quite well for the draw weight. I think Badger (Steve Gardner) made it some time ago.
If you mask the back and give the belly a light wipe with stain it should look the part colour wise.
-
Thanks for all the suggestions and input everyone! I think a trip to the lumberyard is in order tomorrow!
Frode
-
How about mulberry. With a few rings of sapwood left on it will look very similar to yew. Hillbilly made one a few years ago that shoots very well. His son Cody was shooting it last weekend at the NC state shoot at Hickory. I made an osage ELB style bow with sapwood on it for a reenactment group to raffle off a few years ago. Another good shooting bow.
Ash and elm were traditional bow woods during the Renaissance times but instead of the deep bellied ELB style bow they were more of a rounded rectangular cross section.
-
How about mulberry. With a few rings of sapwood left on it will look very similar to yew. Hillbilly made one a few years ago that shoots very well...
I made an osage ELB style bow with sapwood on it for a reenactment group to raffle off a few years ago. Another good shooting bow.
Pat, you know, mulberry seems to grow around the Midwest like a weed. I even have a couple on the back fence I haven't done anything about yet. Seems to grow fast and straight, given half a chance, and makes for a good pie, too. Hmmm.
Seems like all the osage instructions I've seen talk about getting rid of the bark and sap wood, and getting right down to chasing a ring. So there's no drawback in leaving some sap wood on, then? And, would the same ring chasing rules apply for the sapwood, as well? I have a piece of osage that looks like it has a good four rings of sap wood on it still.
Frode
-
Frode, It all depends on how the wood was handled right off the stump. The sapwood of either will work on a bow if the wood was cured properly and no rot got into the sapwood(heartwood of both is rot resistant but not the sapwood). I have made bows of both mulberry and osage with a few rings of sapwood left on the back, 50/50 heartwood/sapwood and all sapwood. The more sapwood the thicker the bow will be but it works fine.
You will have to chase a ring with the sapwood also. You need a good clean back ring with sapwood just like with the heartwood. Only leave 2 or 3 rings of sapwood on the back, depending on the thickness of each ring. About 1/4" to 3/8" of thickness will do fine. Generally the growth rings of mulberry are pretty thick so 1 or 2 might be all you need.
-
Well, I gotta say, I think I'm starting to see what all the fuss over osage is about! I started working on this old osage quarter, just to get the lay of the land, and that is one good looking wood! Cuts nice, too! Between the knots and swirls of grain, anyway. Pictures are nice, but they don't quite get across the depth of that gold. Sapwood looks clean too.
By the way, this piece looks like it might have a fair amount of reflex and twist. Too much?
Frode
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Here's a couple more pics showing reflex and twist...
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
I brought this twisted, knotty osage stave from this point...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGbowtrade004.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/TGbowtrade019.jpg)
to this bow I'm just finishing up...
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/tradgangtradebow001.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/tradgangtradebow002.jpg)
Lots of sessions with a heat gun and clamps and still some twist in her but she shoots great. One of the nice things about wood bows, a little twist won't hurt anything.
Get her down to floor tiller stage and heat straightening is more effective.
-
I have some sasafras staves if need be? JW
-
I brought this twisted, knotty osage stave from this point...
But Pat...you can make a Silk Purse from a Sows ear too..... ;D
-
Michael, anyone can with the right imagination! ;D
-
Okely Dokely, I'm back with some info on my prospective Robin Hood, and some questions.
He's 5'8" with a 28" draw, asking for a 40# bow.
I have some hickory cut to 1/8" x 1 3/4" x 72" or so, and some white ash and elm cut to 1 3/4" x 7/8 (4/4)" x 72".
So for a 68"ntn, 40#@28" bow, what say you to hickory backed elm? I was thinking of gluing with Titebond III, unless there is a better alternative. And, as I prep the faces for gluing, how smooth would you recommend, 100 grit?
As always, your insights and suggestions are greatly appreciated, especially since this is my first attempt at lamination.
Frode
-
Frode, With the TB glues you want no gaps in the mated surfaces. 100 grit paper should be OK Bit I'd use a sanding block.
I use TBIII mostly for backings, risers and overlay glue ups. It should work well for any combo of these whitewoods. Although I have never backed elm, hickory backing should be OK for elm. Glue in a little reflex(2" to 3") and you should come out with a flat profile or slight deflex which works well for a longbow.
-
Thanks, Pat. Would you recommend something other than Titebond?
Frode
-
Urac is the best wood to wood glue but TBIII will do the job also. My glue-ups are pretty sloppy and I never had one come apart using TBIII.
-
As Pat said, mulberry makes a good ELB design. I tried making a couple from it after reading Maurice Thompson's writings about making mulberry longbows in "The Witchery of Archery." Both ones I made turned out really well. One I gave to someone, but my son snatched one of them. It has a couple rings of sapwood left on the back, is a little over an inch wide at sixty-something inches long, deep round-stacked belly, and pulls about 53#. It's a good shooter, and after aging awhile, it looks a lot like a yew longbow. The first question most people ask when they see it is "Is that yew?"
-
Hill , we've got tons of Mulberry growing around here.... What's the story with leaving the sapwood on ???
-
I just left it on for the contrast on the ELBs, to look like the yew sapwood/heartwood combo. Most of the time I take mulberry down to a heartwood ring, but it works fine with a sapwood back, too. I just thinned it down to a couple of rings of sapwood for the ELBs. Pat has made a couple of nice osage bows with sapwood backs.
-
Hill, Thanks !!! have to try that !!!
-
I think an ash or elm longbow would be more authentic for portraying Robin Hood. Not all english longbows were constructed of yew, and I believe that the bandits of Sherwood used some more readily available wood!
Either ash or elm would be authentic choices as bowyers were required by law to make the majority of bows of wood other than yew. so there is no reason to have separate backings or to colour to look like yew. Hickory makes very satisfactory bows. However the forest outlaws Adam Bell and his friends "bent up their good yew bows and looked that the strings were round".
Erik
-
OK then. I once heard a legend telling how NASA set Werner von Braun up in a nice house with a big rolling lush green front lawn. Which he promptly black topped over, to leave more time for, well, rocket science. If I did that, maybe I could get a bow done a little quicker too.
I settled on hickory backed elm (it was a coin toss, elm, ash, maple). I tried gluing in some reflex, only managed an inch, all of which seems to have set right out. It's 70" ntn, and seems to be around 40#@28 (estimated). The grip is below center, and the lower limb is a bit stiffer than the top, but I don't know if this is how it's supposed to look. Its my first glue up, and my first try at a longer upper limb (on purpose :P), and I could sure use some advice. The drawn pic is 24". Oh, and, the little arrow on the wall points to the right, which is the upper limb.
Thanks,
Frode
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
And a full draw (24") pic... pardon the touch up work, the Underground Lair is under construction, and has a lower ceiling, calling for an odd stance.
Thanks,
Frode
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
I settled on hickory backed elm (it was a coin toss, elm, ash, maple). I tried gluing in some reflex, only managed an inch, all of which seems to have set right out. It's 70" ntn, and seems to be around 40#@28 (estimated). The grip is below center, and the lower limb is a bit stiffer than the top, but I don't know if this is how it's supposed to look. Its my first glue up, and my first try at a longer upper limb (on purpose :P), and I could sure use some advice. The drawn pic is 24". Oh, and, the little arrow on the wall points to the right, which is the upper limb.
Thanks,
Frode
As the bow is supposed to be for someone representing Robin Hood, wouldn't it be more appropriate to make a mediaeval style longbow than a stiff handled one more suited to someone representing Horace Ford ? [ the original one].
-
As the bow is supposed to be for someone representing Robin Hood, wouldn't it be more appropriate to make a mediaeval style longbow than a stiff handled one more suited to someone representing Horace Ford ? [ the original one].
:D True, true. You can probably chalk that one up to my lack of experience/confidence with bendy handle styles, and ultra-conservatism when it comes to putting bend in the fades. Seeing as it's still bulky in the grip, I could slim it down and get it bending through and through, couldn't I?
Frode
-
Slimmed down, curving a bit more. I'm going to start another one, true to longbow specs, with a bit higher draw weight, but for now, I'm pleased as punch that the lamination is working!
Frode
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Frode ....if it was Me....which it's NOT.... :P....but I would try to get a lot more wood near the Fades working for You...too much Static Wood there....the Left Limb especially...JMO
-
Frode ....if it was Me....which it's NOT.... :P....but I would try to get a lot more wood near the Fades working for You...too much Static Wood there....the Left Limb especially...JMO
How 'bout now? Sorry for the small steps, this ones pushing it for me. Every time I pull it I half expect the backing to flip off and dance around the room :o, but so far it's rock solid. What do you think, take it further, or start a new one? (I'm gonna start a new one anyway ;D)
Frode
[attachment deleted by admin]